I dislike how " military " is hyped. Especially in U.S society. (Rant thread).

[Zeno]

As someone who has been in the military himself, I truly dislike the hype in especially the U.S about the military and the career of being a soldier.

It usually is elevated as being " heroic ", " patriotic " or " protectors of our freedom " while 9 out of 10 times, the military is only used to establish government interests but not actual interests of the people.

Furthermore, getting a military job in the military, is one of the easiest things on the planet. There is next to no expectations of someone who applies to start off as a normal grunt in lets say the infantry, other than basic physical fitness... Hell even this is mostly dropped nowadays as they can't find enough recruits so they take in obese people and people with other handicaps who would not be up for physical challenge of combat.

My point is, the military is a " total institution " that serves as a tool for the government. Its not some sort of collecting tank for complete winners and little Einstein's, yet the media and some people (especially Americans) celebrate soldiers as if they are protecting every single citizen's butt by shooting up villages in remote Afghanistan or Iraq.

What a joke.

I respect the discipline people have to maintain in military combat roles, but I am having a hard time to actually respect the people who work there for years and act all proud of it and have a go at some other losers who commit " stolen valor ".
There are managers, factory workers, doctors, firefighters, construction workers who actually contribute something to economy and society and no one celebrates them remotely as much.

Especially construction workers and workers of all kind as well as firefighters are pretty much neglected nowadays, especially in TV series. Most stuff on TV is about cops, docs or soldiers. There is only a limited amount of movies or series about firefighters and absolutely non about workers.

You can rip me in pieces for saying this, but some 20 years old U.S Army infantry guy isn't a hero for me, but a deceived and naive young guy who was talked into this by some recruiter, movies and video games.

Anyone who values his life, his time and enjoys developing his own intellectual capabilities, would avoid joining the military, this should especially be clear to anyone after watching all the military TikTok style videos online, where I question myself...THIS is what they allow into a uniform nowadays ? They must be seriously lacking.



All this came to my mind especially after I have served in the military myself (mandatory military service).

Its just overall...silly.


And I am having a hard time to take anyone seriously who says " But they keep us safe from the Russians, Chinese or terrorists ". Well, they don't... in fact in a real war scenario, regular army is next to irrelevant but all the massive numbers of draftees, which would be pretty much every male person in a country, would make the actual difference. But one does not need to serve his entire life during peace time to then defend his country in such a scenario. Most people fighting in Ukraine are draftees, not regulars.

Now talking about men being drafted...where are all the feminists and females serving in the Ukraine army defending their nation ??? I thought they want to be equal to men and have the same rights and respect, yet all soldiers are male, except for a very very few tremendously rare exceptions, where women serve as TikTok representatives to make western people like them.


Don't bother trolling, I won't bother to respond. I just wanted to get this out there.

[Zeno]

引用自 craigsters：

https://youtu.be/DwKPFT-RioU

42,042 men and women of Canada's armed forces died during the war : 22,917 in the Canadian Army, 17,101 in the RCAF and 2,024 in the RCN. 54,414 were wounded and 8,995 taken prisoner.

Remember all those that served to make are lives free and possible today

Yeah sure buddy. Like if they would have lost the war, you would now all not be free at all and life not possible.

Most old vets claim that fighting Germany was t he worst decision.

[talemore]

The firefighter only contribute if something is on fire
The construction worker only contribute if there is something to build
The factory worker do not contribute with anything as manpower was the computer
The doctor only contribute if there are diseases

There are many work who demand death and destruction just to work.
Without war many people wouldn't survive.

[=(^ ^)=]

The military is truly a big scam.

[MinionJoe]

引用自 hurq：

I think the military is for mindless drones and leftists

Hmmm... Perhaps I did misread your original post.

Because I agree that is certainly seems to be who a career in the military is being marketed to these days.

As one of my favorite authors, David Drake, said, "A country that despises its military soon has a despicable military." I'm paraphrasing though, as I cannot seem to find the exact quote online.

[Zeno]

引用自 talemore：

The firefighter only contribute if something is on fire
The construction worker only contribute if there is something to build
The factory worker do not contribute with anything as manpower was the computer
The doctor only contribute if there are diseases

There are many work who demand death and destruction just to work.
Without war many people wouldn't survive.

"Without war many people wouldn't survive."

This can only come from an American. Its sad nowadays U.S Americans even openly admit that their country's economy is built on the blood of millions of innocent humans without taking action while at the same point, claiming to respect blacks, homsexuals and all people who are " different " as well as going full vegan to not hurt animals.

The U.S is an insane asylum. In my personal opinion.

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

引用自 hurq：

引用自 craigsters：

https://youtu.be/DwKPFT-RioU

42,042 men and women of Canada's armed forces died during the war : 22,917 in the Canadian Army, 17,101 in the RCAF and 2,024 in the RCN. 54,414 were wounded and 8,995 taken prisoner.

Remember all those that served to make are lives free and possible today

Yeah sure buddy. Like if they would have lost the war, you would now all not be free at all and life not possible.

Most old vets claim that fighting Germany was t he worst decision.

Fun fact: The United States never wanted to be involved with World War 2, as a matter of fact the public of the US was completely against it and Hitler expressed greatly for none of the Axis nations to attack the United States.

Thing is, when Japan attacked the United States, the United States ONLY declared war on Japan, due to the Pact of Steel, when the United States declared war on Japan, Germany then declared war on the United States, not the other way around, which is worth noting that yes, Germany did indeed declare war on the United States first but they literally didn't even have to in any form because the United State's issue was ONLY with Japan, had Germany not declared war on the United States, they may of never even went to the Europe Front to start with and just stuck it to Japan before going back home.

[Zeno]

引用自 MinionJoe：

引用自 hurq：

I think the military is for mindless drones and leftists

Hmmm... Perhaps I did misread your original post.

Because I agree that is certainly seems to be who a career in the military is being marketed to these days.

As one of my favorite authors, David Drake, said, "A country that despises its military soon has a despicable military." I'm paraphrasing though, as I cannot seem to find the exact quote online.

I was a soldier for 4 years. I hated what we stood for as we started to be sent to countries abroad for NATO purposes.

Later on we were a trans. LBTQ show-case military. Which I also disliked.

So in my eyes the military has always been a pool for mindless drones and misery.
Only military I respect is the one of truly neutral nations such as Switzerland.

[Mad Hatter]

I didn't read your whole blogpost because, ya know, I have ♥♥♥♥ to do at some point this week, but I feel like you probably oversimplified the issue.

I don't support the government or military, but I support the individuals that joined because they genuinely believed they were positively serving their nation and fellow citizens. Those people exist, and they deserve recognition for the values they hold and their willingness to act on those values. They were mislead, but their hearts were in the right place.

That's how it should be. Don't support the institution, but support the individuals that embody the positive values of the institution.

[Zeno]

引用自 Mad Hatter：

I didn't read your whole blogpost because, ya know, I have ♥♥♥♥ to do at some point this week, but I feel like you probably oversimplified the issue.

I don't support the government or military, but I support the individuals that joined because they genuinely believed they were positively serving their nation and fellow citizens. Those people exist, and they deserve recognition for the values they hold and their willingness to act on those values. They were mislead, but their hearts were in the right place.

That's how it should be. Don't support the institution, but support the individuals that embody the positive values of the institution.

Do you also support ISIS, SS soldiers, or Talibans because they all joined because they believed they were positively serving their people and nation ?

I know its a harsh example, but you get the point right ?

What values ?`They keep claiming they fight for the people, righteousness and blablabla...but reality is they do absolutey nothing of that. Look at their action in Syria where people throw stones at their convoys because they were not welcome and only there for the oil.

I recognize what you say, I am not saying all soldiers are bad heartless people. Never would I claim that !

However, I think the younger ones are naive and the ones serving longer are mindless drones. As I explained in my thread.

And I wont support the individuals as the institutiton does not hold positive values unless its an entirely defensive armed force in a neutral country such as Switzerland.

[Raelic]

引用自 hurq：

引用自 Raelic：

I don't really care what a foreigner thinks of the US military. Frankly, it's only your business when we make it your business.

That's point number 1.

Point number 2, you don't know how our military is designed. Like much of the US culture and adulthood it is easy to participate and be a part of. But you can also excel and challenge yourself in our military. You don't have to stay enlisted unless you want to.

Military service also comes with the GI bill that will pay for your college you already took or are going to take.

Point 3, it's weird you bring up Stolen Valor in all that vitriol. Veterans have benefits in our society. Benefits they deserve even if you don't like it. If someone fakes that status to elevate themselves with a lie, that should be ridiculed. Just don't lie and you'll be safe from humiliation. It's not a tall bar to achieve.

1 and 2. I am very well aware of that as I have lived in the US and information about your economy, military and social structures are extremely well known over here in my country.

Your country makes it my business almost everyday, by dragging us into various wars due to NATO and having stationed thousands of units in my country. So yeah, you should care because your glorious army is peeing off a few too many nations nowadays and is slowly starting to stand in the dark by its own.

Furthermore, the college bill and stolen valour which is a thing due to vets having benefits, are both just a product of a military culture, needing recruits and therefore could be easily abolished.

Pushing yourself in the military means pushing yourself to be a slave for the government with a few more strips on your uniform.

I was a soldier once, I know how this goes. This does not make me respect your military any more.

PS: I was generally referring to military, not just your country.

Yea, like I said, your opinion doesn't matter. When I want you to have it, I'll give it to you.

And this isn't meant to be rude or tough. It's just the easiest way to explain why your way of thinking is terrible.

Alternatively,

We're all out at recess in grade school... You want an apple, I want the same apple. Who gets the apple? Whichever one of us can take it.

Thankfully we have the current military and veterans to thank for being the facilitators of it. You can keep posting on Steam forums about it though. :)

[Zeno]

引用自 Raelic：

引用自 hurq：

1 and 2. I am very well aware of that as I have lived in the US and information about your economy, military and social structures are extremely well known over here in my country.

Your country makes it my business almost everyday, by dragging us into various wars due to NATO and having stationed thousands of units in my country. So yeah, you should care because your glorious army is peeing off a few too many nations nowadays and is slowly starting to stand in the dark by its own.

Furthermore, the college bill and stolen valour which is a thing due to vets having benefits, are both just a product of a military culture, needing recruits and therefore could be easily abolished.

Pushing yourself in the military means pushing yourself to be a slave for the government with a few more strips on your uniform.

I was a soldier once, I know how this goes. This does not make me respect your military any more.

PS: I was generally referring to military, not just your country.

Yea, like I said, your opinion doesn't matter. When I want you to have it, I'll give it to you.

And this isn't meant to be rude or tough. It's just the easiest way to explain why your way of thinking is terrible.

Alternatively,

We're all out at recess in grade school... You want an apple, I want the same apple. Who gets the apple? Whichever one of us can take it.

Thankfully we have the current military and veterans to thank for being the facilitators of it. You can keep posting on Steam forums about it though. :)

" Yea, like I said, your opinion doesn't matter. When I want you to have it, I'll give it to you. "

Sounds like something only an extreme narcissist who can't handle people's actually to him threatening opinion would say. You are not in the position to decide whos opinion matters and whos does not.

Of course what I say is an opinion same as what you are saying is an opinion. I think that your opinion does not matter as you are completely indoctrinated and only " attack " me to uphold your own possible pro-military or military background in order to make yourself feel good and not like you have wasted your time and served as a mindless drone.

The difference is, I have actually come up with a variety of arguments fortifying my opinion and my statements while you have only come up with personal attacks and gatekeeping behaviour.

"Thankfully we have the current military and veterans to thank for being the facilitators of it."

Yeah, I am sure they protected freedom of speech by invading Iraq based on a made up fake claim, causing thousands of deaths in Afghanistan and still losing, poisoning entire Vietnam and losing Korea. Great folks ! Bravo ! Well done !

Surprise my friend, but I am not even located in the US, yet I can share my opinion and this is not for some soldiers who think they have any value to society, but to smart intelligent people who established laws and a sense of freedom in the first place, once all the war mongerers lost relevance after people realised that war, death and invading other countries isn't so cool anymore.

[Mad Hatter]

I'm not just ignoring your response. The Steam mobile app is dogsh*t and decided to go back a page after I spent several minutes drafting up a good response. I then threw my phone across the room (gently).

I don't entirely disagree with you. I just think it's not always fair to paint with broad strokes. I had friends that were/are good people, that joined up for good reasons (they thought), and then came back broken and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up beyond belief.

That's not an uncommon story, and that's why I always push back a bit in threads like this. Some of those people are victims, too.

Also, ignoring the fact that ISIS is actually CIA, ISIS and the Taliban are both terrorist organizations, so not the best analogy. Nazi Germany is also a far more complex discussion, as the early days of the National Socialist party in Germany had undeniably positive effects on the nation. Where it went after that is a different story, but the Nazi party also cannot be painted in black and white.

Nothing happens in a vacuum, and everything needs to be explored in its proper context. In the case of the Nazis, the personal values that led many people to join up were the desire to see their home and communities built back from poverty and despair.

It's not fair to put the motivations of people that only know a piece of the puzzle against the motivations of people that can see the whole picture.

[Raelic]

引用自 hurq：

引用自 Raelic：

Yea, like I said, your opinion doesn't matter. When I want you to have it, I'll give it to you.

And this isn't meant to be rude or tough. It's just the easiest way to explain why your way of thinking is terrible.

Alternatively,

We're all out at recess in grade school... You want an apple, I want the same apple. Who gets the apple? Whichever one of us can take it.

Thankfully we have the current military and veterans to thank for being the facilitators of it. You can keep posting on Steam forums about it though. :)

" Yea, like I said, your opinion doesn't matter. When I want you to have it, I'll give it to you. "

Sounds like something only an extreme narcissist who can't handle people's actually to him threatening opinion would say. You are not in the position to decide whos opinion matters and whos does not.

Of course what I say is an opinion same as what you are saying is an opinion. I think that your opinion does not matter as you are completely indoctrinated and only " attack " me to uphold your own possible pro-military or military background in order to make yourself feel good and not like you have wasted your time and served as a mindless drone.

The difference is, I have actually come up with a variety of arguments fortifying my opinion and my statements while you have only come up with personal attacks and gatekeeping behaviour.

"Thankfully we have the current military and veterans to thank for being the facilitators of it."

Yeah, I am sure they protected freedom of speech by invading Iraq based on a made up fake claim, causing thousands of deaths in Afghanistan and still losing, poisoning entire Vietnam and losing Korea. Great folks ! Bravo ! Well done !

Surprise my friend, but I am not even located in the US, yet I can share my opinion and this is not for some soldiers who think they have any value to society, but to smart intelligent people who established laws and a sense of freedom in the first place, once all the war mongerers lost relevance after people realised that war, death and invading other countries isn't so cool anymore.

I can tell you who's opinion matters and who's does not. If you can't defend yourself and you have no strength... And I can defend myself and I do have strength. I can tell you to do anything I want to tell you to do. I can take everything from you, even your opinion.

[Zeno]

引用自 Mad Hatter：

I'm not just ignoring your response. The Steam mobile app is dogsh*t and decided to go back a page after I spent several minutes drafting up a good response. I then threw my phone across the room (gently).

I don't entirely disagree with you. I just think it's not always fair to paint with broad strokes. I had friends that were/are good people, that joined up for good reasons (they thought), and then came back broken and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up beyond belief.

That's not an uncommon story, and that's why I always push back a bit in threads like this. Some of those people are victims, too.

Also, ignoring the fact that ISIS is actually CIA, ISIS and the Taliban are both terrorist organizations, so not the best analogy. Nazi Germany is also a far more complex discussion, as the early days of the National Socialist party in Germany had undeniably positive effects on the nation. Where it went after that is a different story, but the Nazi party also cannot be painted in black and white.

Nothing happens in a vacuum, and everything needs to be explored in its proper context. In the case of the Nazis, the personal values that led many people to join up were the desire to see their home and communities built back from poverty and despair.

It's not fair to put the motivations of people that only know a piece of the puzzle against the motivations of people that can see the whole picture.

I am aware of that many service members are victims as well. My point was, that being naive and falling for something, does not automatically mean one is enjoys imunity against criticism and disrespect.

If I let's say at some sports club encounter someone who tells me he is with the military since 15 years, then I will treat him with respect, politeness like every other human I encounter, but I will immediately have a somewhat negative opinion of him as someone who serves in an institution for this long, is certainly not someone I would want to hang around with or put much trust into his thinking capabilities regarding social independence and critical thinking.

One who does this job for this long, HAS TO put aside certain views and certain criticism, otherwise he could not work in this job effectively. You can't disagree with the government completely, with military sending you abroad and with woke-lgbtq agendas being established in your insitution and at the same time be a motivated and loyal soldier.

As said, I am not pointing a finger at individual soldiers, but I am also not considering them to be innocent and harmless lambs who are just a poor cute little piece of metal within a big engine. They have made a decision to join and a decision to stay. I have more respect for someone who tries to feed his family with a job in a fast food chain than someone who wears a uniform.

[Voroff]

引用自 talemore：

The firefighter only contribute if something is on fire
The construction worker only contribute if there is something to build
The factory worker do not contribute with anything as manpower was the computer
The doctor only contribute if there are diseases

There are many work who demand death and destruction just to work.
Without war many people wouldn't survive.

Is that ... an exercise in style in non-speak, or novlang, or something ? Or are you really serious ?
Maybe with the firefighters you are not "totally" wrong (in france they have 2 other side jobs) ... but
construction worker does not need anything broken to build / Docs are use full to progress science ... but without war, amercia cannot survive. Funny thing is, that ALL the arguments that red-blooded americans presented against current russia's invasion of ukraine will come bite them back ... next time america will launch a war, i fully expect all nations to boycott the USA and cut them off from the SWIFT system.

引用自 Mad Hatter：

I don't support the government or military, but I support the individuals that joined because they genuinely believed their were positively serving their nation and fellow citizens. Those people exist, and they deserve recognition for the values they hold and their willingness to act on those values.

There is everything and all in the military, from good samaritains to literal dictators. I can assure you that some people WILL remember Abu Graib for example. Werent some soon-to-be-prisonners of the USA getting in the military instead, for the war in Irak ? ... there is everything in the military.

I'm french, i'm remebering how the USA turned on us because France said "NO" to an unjust and unfair war.
I'm remembering the spilt wine as a symbol of hatred to my culture by a warmongering nation that have its president almost finished his declaration of war by "God bless america, god bless this war" as religious nutjob with the mind of a 8 y.o. boy.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00138/jay-shaft-bushs-use-of-god-to-justify-war.htm
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-god-told-me-to-invade-iraq-6262644.html

Will there be no war started by the USA, those people you revere so much could have contributed to build your country as firefighters and teachers, instedad of pillaging other's, getting PTSD and killing. Yeah, think about that. And what about the treatment of Vet's ? Changed much since Vietnam ? IED's were the hype i heard. Maybe some would rather their life without IED, but you know, you're enlisted. "Living the dream".

I have witnessed the USA going full religious zealots and spitting on France. Will be my country next of the multiple coutries that the USA have bullied since time immemorial ? Every 5 years in average there is a war involving the USA. There is one, just now, a proxy war, in ukraine.


So, as a french that didnt suffered an invasion i'm saying : with the only exception of those who enlisted because financial duress, ♥♥♥♥ the military personnal of the United States of America : you enlisted, knowingly selling your body for a pence while your US of A makes a penny out of your death, invading other countries for oil, or WMD or water or because the Crusades are back or whatever.
You, enlisted, fully knowing, because you have LIVED you adolescence throught at least two wars - and you had all war films and critics of the militaro-industrial complex and now the internet in your pocket. You have absolutely no excuses. Respectfully, F U, i kindly hope you understand.
I'm not saying anything for the people of america-invaded countries, it's not my place. They can talk themselves.

引用自 Mad Hatter：

Also, ignoring the fact that ISIS is actually CIA, ISIS and the Taliban are both terrorist organizations, so not the best analogy. Nazi Germany is also a far more complex discussion, as the early days of the National Socialist party in Germany had undeniably positive effects on the nation. Where it went after that is a different story, but the Nazi party also cannot be painted in black and white.

Nothing happens in a vacuum, and everything needs to be explored in its proper context. In the case of the Nazis, the personal values that led many people to join up were the desire to see their home and communities built back from poverty and despair.

Yep, nothing is in a vacuum, as for Nazis they were socialists at the beginnings. Like Mussolini, whose first law was a social-benfit law, but then fascism.
Like, how will Israel fare without the USA ? What counter to china ? But without the mingling of USA, no Ben Laden, Al Quaida, or ISIS. Or Ukraine. So, i'm voting for the USA to stop things with its army and its CIA, and join the others nations playing ball, meaning everyone excpet those two at the end of the class.



Good night, everyone.