Privatized or Universal Healthcare?

[Ȃ̷̛́͌̚͝r̵c̸̛̒͐̅̇]

When we think about Universal Healthcare some of us may think it's free when it's truly not as it comes through more taxes in order of achieving everyone that would be insured for health, but there may be need to be a dramatic increase of taxes for better quality healthcare like Denmark as it's more than 40%.

Privatized Healthcare on the other hand, Is a optional choice for people to choose as the quality may be better without government involvement as it can be less taxes and not paying for someone else's insurance. Also it may come quicker when in emergency rooms than a single payer healthcare system that takes a long time in other developed countries.

Which would you prefer? Quality or a Right?

[RRW359]

Snow ☯ eredeti hozzászólása:

Much of what I'm seeing here is a result of people being stuck in an echo -chamber and not having done proper research.

Let's take the guy who thinks he knows what a true christian should do.
-Nothing in the bible supports the "green" policies beyond maybe doing stuff in moderation. Furthermore the climate agenda is something people would also need to do in moderation, (Gretta I'm looking at you).
-Oppose the death penality is wrong. The bible say don't commit murder, and there's a distinction between that and having to kill people in wars or self-defense.
-Oppose guns...lol no...actually the bible tells people that if you don't own a sword go out and buy a sword.
-Cultural holidays depends on the cultural holiday and how it's partaken.
-Progressive ideals...ummm the progressives hate the poor, compare Joe Biden to pre-Pandemic Trump and look at who voted for who...no progressive ideas like climate change and moving away from fossil fuels makes energy more expensive and gas more expensive and is very anti-poor.

And other progressive ideas like the only way to end racism is to be racist (Ibram X Kendi CRT author)...yeah pretty sure Jesus wouldn't tell people that the best way to fix past hurts is to hurt people now.

Now...worshipping the 2nd Amendment would count as a false idol and would absolutely be against a religion, but the word worshiping is often used anytime a left-winger doesn't get to ban something or restrict a certain right then the other guy must be worshiping something. Never seen someone worship a gun.

But again the bible says if you dont' own a sword go buy one.

Also there's alot of talk that "woke" is a religion...because it requires people to believe in a number of things that they have to take on faith. If it is a religion...that's worshiping a false idol. That's grave sin.

Also Dom...separation of Church and State it doesn't actually exist anyone in our legal doctrine. It's a common mistake. There is things about how we can't establish a state religion, but people forget how religious our founding fathers were, and how often we see "religion" not separated by "state"

For instance how often do we see swearing on the bible or "In God we trust"

Precedent is part of common law until a case says otherwise and the Supreme Court has on several occasions sited it as a reason for rulings, and the quote comes from a founding father. Failure to seperate it from official government material isn't a sign that it needs to continue, and you don't need to swear on a bible in court anymore in order to testify.

[Pieshaman]

SlowMango eredeti hozzászólása:

Privatized healthcare is what puts insulin at over $300 a bottle is some cases.

in europe its less than 20 euro for the same bottle. USA is crazy.

[JPMcMillen]

Triple G eredeti hozzászólása:

In privatized healthcare You also pay for the others,

This is absolutely true. In private health care doctors and hospitals are going to charge the insurance companies and patients as much as they can to cover the losses from those that either don't pay their bill or get some kind of hardship deal were they pay little to no money.

Seriously, how do you think the US health care system hasn't gone broke with an estimated 88 billion dollars in unpaid medical debt? Simple, they got paid from those that can. Most of that debt will eventually get sold to medical debt collectors at 5¢-10¢ on the dollar and they'll try to get at least a partial payment to wipe it off your credit report.

[Rio]

JPMcMillen eredeti hozzászólása:

Triple G eredeti hozzászólása:

In privatized healthcare You also pay for the others,

This is absolutely true. In private health care doctors and hospitals are going to charge the insurance companies and patients as much as they can to cover the losses from those that either don't pay their bill or get some kind of hardship deal were they pay little to no money.

Seriously, how do you think the US health care system hasn't gone broke with an estimated 88 billion dollars in unpaid medical debt? Simple, they got paid from those that can. Most of that debt will eventually get sold to medical debt collectors at 5¢-10¢ on the dollar and they'll try to get at least a partial payment to wipe it off your credit report.

There would be no debt. And prices would be lower if there was no insurance. And no government involvement.

With lower prices people might get small things checked out more often. Before they become big expensive things, And hospitals can't count on insurance paying "whatever" for some services, so they'd want to find ways to lower the price so more could afford it.

And doctors with less red tape might be more open to bartering the price of services with customers,

Sometimes people will go overseas to get medical services cheap because how bloated and over priced the american medical system has become.

Like my aunt would go down to mexico to pay like 5 bucks for antibiotics. And here you what? paying 50-100 bucks to see the doc and then get a prescription for the pills? But the medical mafia went to close people being able to bring those pills over the border.

[WhiteKnight77]

hypercybermegatron eredeti hozzászólása:

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

The middle ground between paid for health insurance, and full private, is employer plans which employers get bulk discounts on in order to offer them as incentive and benefits to employees. And if you have the health insurance that takes care of the expenses if you need it. Prior to ACA, it was under $100/month for me. Post ACA, it's over $400, and that was intentional, and that was promoted by the same people trying to promote "universal" so I have no good reason to take their word on any of their offers.

Employer health care plans are fundamentally flawed.

Perhaps back in an era where people left school and had one job for the rest of their life and got a gold watch at retirement it would have been more feasible than in modern times, but even then the concept of being under the thumb of an employer for healthcare is like sitting under the sword of Damocles.

The unemployed and disabled deserve healthcare like the rest of us. USA is The United States of Anti-Christs, there are very few American Christians who live a life true to the words of Christ, they spit on the poor, and Christ our Redeemer would be disgusted by their sins of opulence and greed.

Employer healthcare is not middle ground, it's a neoliberal position, just goes to show how far the Overton has shifted towards the extreme right wing and is normalising the worst capitalism has to offer.

Employer health care plans had no issues before the passage of The Affordable Care Act. Insurance could be had for less than $200 a month and included a $20 copay for an office visit. After the passage, that skyrocketed to over $400 and the most basic plan was $600 a month, with $6000 deductible. So now people have to pay for office visits (unless there are other stipulations of coverage such as preventative visits such as a physical) once they need to go such as for a chase of bronchitis (one does not know it until they visit a doctor so can't prevent it) until they meet the deductible amount, then office visits get a copay.

My doctor prescribes me a 3 month supply of medications, but my insurance will only pay for 1 month at a time, unless I use their system for mail to home prescriptions, and even then, there are issues, such as can't get a refill to last to take on an extended trip before the time period is

crunchyfrog eredeti hozzászólása:

It's a right and demonstrably so.

Other countries demonstrate it well.

End of.

I've said it many times. I'm British and while our horrible Tory government is trying desperately to dismantle our healthcare system to convert it to the US system, they've failed because the people in the NHS don't want it to happen, nor do the people. But it's had effect of course.

Anywho, Here's how it actually works.

I'm disabled and retired. I pay a few quid out of my benefits each week to pay for National Insurance which is how the healthcare (and other things) are funded. That's basic socialism.

Back when I worked, I also paid more, in accordance to how much more I earned. There's a scale for it.

The last time I had an emergency and had to go to hospital and stay, my wife called for an ambulance (around 2am) and within half an hour they had turned up. They couldn't "fix" me so I got given gas and air and was taken to the hospital of my choice (of two local ones).

I get to hospital, sit in A&E with my gas bottle, waiting to be seen. Within an hour I get seen and by this time the gas had run out, and I get pain meds. After another short time frame a doctor sees me and I get to go for a scan for suspected kidney stones. I get scanned and sure enough it shows several fractured stones. I get sent up to a ward and this is around 6 am.

Immediately I get thrust a menu and I decline from having anything to eat. I get repeated pain meds regularly and keep gettting asked if I want to eat anything. I do after a while even though I keep being sick.

Anyhow, I sit there for just under 3 days before finally getting the all clear every stone particle has passed. I get given antibiotics prescriptions and more painkillers, and discharged. They call a taxi and I'm off home.

Total cost, including the taxi and food? ZERO.


Now tell me what's wrong with that?

Back when you worked, how much did the government take out of your paycheck? Even with my employer subsidized healthcare plan, I still only pay around 20% a paycheck for taxes, retirement and insurance. I know after talking with people in The Netherlands (more taxpayer funded healthcare), they pay around 45% a paycheck. People here in the US making minimum wage could not afford to live with that much taken out of their meager checks.

[sh4rkbyt31]

I've lived long enough to know that privatized Health Care is a joke. The likelihood of Universal Health Care is probably going to be somewhat short lived. I've also been through the VA system (USMC).
The ONLY solution is affordable health care whereby the prices AND services become regulated. I know that's a bad word in many circles but that IS the ONLY solution.
I worked as an Insurance Agent and I can tell you firsthand it's one of the biggest ripoffs in the U.S. Whether it's Home Owners, Auto, Life, Health, Business or even Dental, it IS essentially a Ponzi scheme in no short terms! When someone running an Insurance business gets to chose life or death for you, somethings seriously wrong!
Remember the financial collapse in 2008? Notice how ALL your insurance creeped up for no reason? Most of those companies lost their equity in the real estate market and we all paid for it, that's partially how it works!
Now we're going through it again for alleged supply chain delays/inflation which IS BS! You can include the Natural Disasters lately but these price increases started BEFORE many of those things even happened!

[RRW359]

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

hypercybermegatron eredeti hozzászólása:

Employer health care plans are fundamentally flawed.

Perhaps back in an era where people left school and had one job for the rest of their life and got a gold watch at retirement it would have been more feasible than in modern times, but even then the concept of being under the thumb of an employer for healthcare is like sitting under the sword of Damocles.

The unemployed and disabled deserve healthcare like the rest of us. USA is The United States of Anti-Christs, there are very few American Christians who live a life true to the words of Christ, they spit on the poor, and Christ our Redeemer would be disgusted by their sins of opulence and greed.

Employer healthcare is not middle ground, it's a neoliberal position, just goes to show how far the Overton has shifted towards the extreme right wing and is normalising the worst capitalism has to offer.

Employer health care plans had no issues before the passage of The Affordable Care Act. Insurance could be had for less than $200 a month and included a $20 copay for an office visit. After the passage, that skyrocketed to over $400 and the most basic plan was $600 a month, with $6000 deductible. So now people have to pay for office visits (unless there are other stipulations of coverage such as preventative visits such as a physical) once they need to go such as for a chase of bronchitis (one does not know it until they visit a doctor so can't prevent it) until they meet the deductible amount, then office visits get a copay.

My doctor prescribes me a 3 month supply of medications, but my insurance will only pay for 1 month at a time, unless I use their system for mail to home prescriptions, and even then, there are issues, such as can't get a refill to last to take on an extended trip before the time period is

crunchyfrog eredeti hozzászólása:

It's a right and demonstrably so.

Other countries demonstrate it well.

End of.

I've said it many times. I'm British and while our horrible Tory government is trying desperately to dismantle our healthcare system to convert it to the US system, they've failed because the people in the NHS don't want it to happen, nor do the people. But it's had effect of course.

Anywho, Here's how it actually works.

I'm disabled and retired. I pay a few quid out of my benefits each week to pay for National Insurance which is how the healthcare (and other things) are funded. That's basic socialism.

Back when I worked, I also paid more, in accordance to how much more I earned. There's a scale for it.

The last time I had an emergency and had to go to hospital and stay, my wife called for an ambulance (around 2am) and within half an hour they had turned up. They couldn't "fix" me so I got given gas and air and was taken to the hospital of my choice (of two local ones).

I get to hospital, sit in A&E with my gas bottle, waiting to be seen. Within an hour I get seen and by this time the gas had run out, and I get pain meds. After another short time frame a doctor sees me and I get to go for a scan for suspected kidney stones. I get scanned and sure enough it shows several fractured stones. I get sent up to a ward and this is around 6 am.

Immediately I get thrust a menu and I decline from having anything to eat. I get repeated pain meds regularly and keep gettting asked if I want to eat anything. I do after a while even though I keep being sick.

Anyhow, I sit there for just under 3 days before finally getting the all clear every stone particle has passed. I get given antibiotics prescriptions and more painkillers, and discharged. They call a taxi and I'm off home.

Total cost, including the taxi and food? ZERO.


Now tell me what's wrong with that?

Back when you worked, how much did the government take out of your paycheck? Even with my employer subsidized healthcare plan, I still only pay around 20% a paycheck for taxes, retirement and insurance. I know after talking with people in The Netherlands (more taxpayer funded healthcare), they pay around 45% a paycheck. People here in the US making minimum wage could not afford to live with that much taken out of their meager checks.

Interesting that the same people who oppose raising minimum wage with inflation (something several States do) are often also against raising taxes specifically because US minimum wage is lower then a lot of other countries and they might not be able to afford it.

[Rio]

We got in this situation because regulations and insurance. So we'll get out of it with more regulation huh? Basically price controls.

[Plaid]

imagine wanting to pay more for less.

Sounds like Gamer Syndrome to me.

[𝔈𝔩𝔊𝔯𝔦𝔫𝔤𝔬]

Neither are great to be honest. Canada doesn't have to worry about affording health care, they just have to worry about accessing it. Us American's can go to a clinic, our doctors or the E.R anytime we want and depending on the issue it isn't too long of a wait... But a quarter of our nation can't even afford healthcare.

[Tiberius]

S73v3NH4wk1n9 eredeti hozzászólása:

Universal, when society has a bottom that isn't melted off it tends to be good for communities.

Breaking an arm or getting a rabies shot in the USA costs too much money, the USA is the last thorn in the side of good universal healthcare as the greed there drives up the cost world wide.

The USA won't get universal healthcare till after a collapse/default of some sort tho.
A lot of society in the USA has the whole "rugged individualism" mantality dug into their skulls.

How much does a rabies shot cost in the us?

[Pronoun Paladin ☯]

Tiberius eredeti hozzászólása:

S73v3NH4wk1n9 eredeti hozzászólása:

Universal, when society has a bottom that isn't melted off it tends to be good for communities.

Breaking an arm or getting a rabies shot in the USA costs too much money, the USA is the last thorn in the side of good universal healthcare as the greed there drives up the cost world wide.

The USA won't get universal healthcare till after a collapse/default of some sort tho.
A lot of society in the USA has the whole "rugged individualism" mantality dug into their skulls.

How much does a rabies shot cost in the us?

Due to our highly socialized healthcare system it's hard to answer that question.

[RRW359]

Tiberius eredeti hozzászólása:

S73v3NH4wk1n9 eredeti hozzászólása:

Universal, when society has a bottom that isn't melted off it tends to be good for communities.

Breaking an arm or getting a rabies shot in the USA costs too much money, the USA is the last thorn in the side of good universal healthcare as the greed there drives up the cost world wide.

The USA won't get universal healthcare till after a collapse/default of some sort tho.
A lot of society in the USA has the whole "rugged individualism" mantality dug into their skulls.

How much does a rabies shot cost in the us?

One of the annoying things about the US is how hard it is to predict prices, last time I went down the Rabies rabbit hole it was between three or four digits. Pretty terrifying to be bitten by an Animal and you have to chose between losing the several days of your life you spent for possibly nothing or keeping that money and hoping your brain doesn't melt some time between a week and a year from now.

[Rio]

RRW359 eredeti hozzászólása:

Tiberius eredeti hozzászólása:

How much does a rabies shot cost in the us?

One of the annoying things about the US is how hard it is to predict prices, last time I went down the Rabies rabbit hole it was between three or four digits. Pretty terrifying to be bitten by an Animal and you have to chose between losing the several days of your life you spent for possibly nothing or keeping that money and hoping your brain doesn't melt some time between a week and a year from now.

Rabies is a risk to everyone. It sad to hear they're fine risking you going rabid and infecting society.

Rabies is one of those evils that makes me go, there ain't no god in this world. Because it can turn you into a monster that infects/kills your own family. Its hard to imagine a greater evil from a disease,

[Ulfrinn]

hypercybermegatron eredeti hozzászólása:

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah, and you assume people immediately lose coverage if they lose their job. You don't. And if you're unemployed then you're qualified for medicaid which pays retroactively since the last time you had it. So again, you people have to fabricate a scenario where your ideas actually work, because in reality, they don't make sense.

Are you serious? You need a job which offers it in the first place.

If you don't then you're either making enough money to pay for it yourself or, more likely, you're working part time and are under the income limit to be eligible and can get it paid for. Again, you people might actually want to spend 10 seconds looking up what the US healthcare system offers before claiming it's terrible and demanding government control over it.