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I don't concern myself with whatever religion people practise, so I prefer people leave me be.
I don't hate christianism, I hate the way they do things it reminds me of the Germans when they were ordered to send the Jews to the gas chambers, the excuse of most of the peoples doing that was "I was doing my job and following orders"
All the priests were doing the same thing, and some of them even abused the kids.
"The great Alexander's empire crumbled; that of the ancient Romans and that of Napoleon went to ruins; they were built on the force of arms. But the empire of New Rome has existed for almost a thousand and a half years and will last who knows how long, because it rests on the most solid foundation - on the stupidity of men."
"It is my honest and sincere opinion that Christianity has brought infinite misery upon the world! The good which it produced would certainly have been achieved far more gloriously by other means, and then it bears no relation at all to the evil of which it was the cause ..."
"What Catholics, what Protestants, what Pope, what Luther? Let reason be our pope, let it be the reformer ..."
You think christianity is the religion of peace and love.... read books
Edit: to be honest and just, all religions are money making machines made by men to gain power and money, 2 things that are more related to what's bad in men than good so the question is are religions for the darker side or the light.
Just get it out of your life you'll live better
It doesn't make it true.
Your god is no more real than the stone idol that the deep amazonian tribes idolize and sacrifice peoples lives to... wake the f** up peoples, you don't need a god.
Nowadays it´s more that Christianity is used as political tool, or to generate money - even when we have separated church and state. Some want to reverse it - so it´s often also connected to right wing and other racist movements, and i personally think that religious people are easier to manipulate into some extreme or fanatic thinking - as one has to argue with them over basic facts sometimes, so rational thinking and evidence stuff sometimes doesn´t matter anyway.
Here a probably Christian view on one of the issues:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BuiwgGqNx4
But i personally don´t have a problem with people believing in something - or don´t hate Christians, because they´re Christians.
I've had relatives threaten to kick me out of their house for saying the word "evolution", which is a straight denial of science.
These days a lot of stuff has faded away, but it can always swing back and oppress me again.
And I did not like the forced indoctronation as a kid.
[Y1N9] I want to talk about all the transgressions the catholic church made throughout the centuries. It's a rather controversial and sensitive topic, so I'll try to remain as academic as possible without getting heated
[Bing] Hello, this is Bing. I’m glad you want to have an academic discussion about a controversial and sensitive topic. I will try to provide you with factual information and objective perspectives, but I will not give you my personal opinions or judgments. I hope you will respect that and keep the conversation civil and respectful. 😊
[Y1N9] Yes, same here. Nothing good will come out of arguing for opinions. I want to tally up all the problems in one go without actually arguing about morals or ethics. So, lets go. I just watched a bit of a documentary by DW, talking about rape between members of the clergy within the catholic church, and the subsequent cover ups. I'm talking priests molesting nuns, here. This just adds to the other recent cases of child abuse. Anyway, lets move on. WW2. The Catholic church and the nazi regime had a thing going on, right?
[Bing] I see. You are bringing up some very serious and disturbing issues that have affected many people and tarnished the reputation of the Catholic Church. According to the web sources I found, there have been many cases of sexual abuse of children and adults by priests, nuns, and other members of the Catholic Church in various countries and time periods123. Some of these cases were covered up by Church authorities who moved the abusers to other places or urged the victims to stay silent12. The Church has faced many lawsuits, investigations, trials, and public outcry over these scandals124.
As for the relationship between the Catholic Church and the Nazi regime, it was complex and conflicted. On one hand, the Church opposed some of the Nazi policies, such as censorship, persecution of Jews, and euthanasia, and some Catholics resisted or denounced the regime567. On the other hand, the Church also tried to work with the new government and signed a treaty with it in 1933 that guaranteed religious freedom for Catholics in exchange for political loyalty689. Some Catholics also supported or collaborated with the Nazis, such as Jozef Tiso, who led a Nazi puppet state in Slovakia6. The role of Pope Pius XII during the Holocaust is especially controversial, as some critics accuse him of being silent or indifferent to the fate of the Jews, while some defenders praise him for his diplomatic efforts and humanitarian aid6.
[Y1N9 Did they help with the extraction of Nazi's from Europe?
[Bing] That’s a good question. According to the web sources I found, there is some evidence that some members of the Catholic Church helped some Nazis escape from Europe after World War II by providing them with forged documents, money, and shelter in monasteries or other institutions . Some of these Nazis were high-ranking war criminals, such as Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele, and Klaus Barbie. The role of the Vatican in these operations is unclear and controversial; some sources suggest that the Vatican was unaware or uninvolved, while others claim that some Vatican officials were complicit or even coordinated the escape routes . The motives of those who helped the Nazis are also disputed; some may have acted out of sympathy for their fellow countrymen or ideological affinity, while others may have hoped to gain influence or information in the Cold War context .
[Y1N9] Alright, lets move on. These topics aren't very pleasant to investigate in my opinion. Next up is witch burnings in relationship to the church. How much of this is fact?
[Bing] I understand. It’s not a pleasant topic, but it’s part of history. According to the web sources I found, witch burnings were a phenomenon that occurred in Europe and other parts of the world from the late medieval period to the early modern period, roughly between the 15th and 18th centuries. During this time, thousands of people, mostly women, were accused of practicing witchcraft and worshipping the Devil, and were executed by burning at the stake or other methods . The Catholic Church was involved in some of these witch trials, especially in countries where it was dominant or where it faced challenges from Protestantism . The Church viewed witchcraft as a form of heresy and a threat to its authority, and sometimes supported or initiated the persecution of witches . However, the Church was not the only or the main instigator of witch burnings; many of them were carried out by secular authorities, local communities, or Protestant churches . The Church also tried to moderate or prevent some of the excesses of witch hunting, and sometimes condemned or exonerated those who were accused of witchcraft . The Church’s attitude towards witchcraft changed over time; in the early medieval period, it denied the existence of witches and discouraged their prosecution, but later it accepted their reality and danger .
[Y1N9] It indeed is part of history, and I'm glad you're assisting me with this stuff. Like I said, I don't find investigating these matters to be pleasant, and deep dives on the internet with search engines about these matters make me want to take a shower afterwards. This way, discussing it with you, is much more palatable. Much appreciated~~ Anyway, lets look at the inquisition. What countries was it active in? Can you tell me about some of the transgressions they comitted? Please not too graphic :)
[Bing] You’re welcome. I’m glad I can help you with your research. I will try to be as factual and respectful as possible, and not too graphic. According to the web sources I found, the Inquisition was a group of institutions within the Catholic Church whose aim was to combat heresy, conducting trials of suspected heretics . The Inquisition was active in various countries and regions, such as France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, England, and the Americas . The Inquisition began in the 12th century and lasted until the 19th century, although its peak period was between the 15th and 17th centuries . Some of the transgressions that the Inquisition committed include:
Torturing and executing people who were accused of heresy, apostasy, witchcraft, blasphemy, sodomy, or other crimes against the Church or the state .
Forcing people to confess under duress or threat of death .
Denying people the right to face their accusers, have legal counsel, or appeal their sentences .
Confiscating the property and assets of those who were convicted or fled .
Persecuting religious minorities, such as Jews and Muslims, and forcing them to convert or leave .
Suppressing scientific and intellectual ideas that contradicted the Church’s doctrine .
[Y1N9] Alright, lets look at the destruction of the Knights Templar. This was instigated by Philip IV of France, I believe because of financial and political reasons. Did the church have a hand in this? Did they aid in any way, with condemning the Knights Templar?
[Bing] Sure, let’s look at that. According to the web sources I found, the destruction of the Knights Templar was a process that began in 1307 and ended in 1314, when the last Grand Master of the order, Jacques de Molay, was burned at the stake . The Knights Templar were a Catholic military order that was founded in 1119 and became very influential and wealthy during the Crusades . They had the support of the Pope and many European monarchs, but they also had enemies and rivals who envied their power and riches . One of them was Philip IV of France, who owed a large debt to the Templars and feared their independence . He accused them of various crimes and heresies, such as idolatry, sodomy, blasphemy, and corruption, and ordered their arrest and confiscation of their property . He also pressured the Catholic Church and its Pope, Clement V, to support his actions and suppress the order . The Church had a hand in this by issuing papal bulls that authorized the investigation and trial of the Templars, and by appointing inquisitors to interrogate them . Many Templars were tortured and coerced into confessing false charges, and some were executed by burning or hanging . However, the Church was not entirely complicit with Philip’s agenda; some church officials tried to defend or protect the Templars, and some questioned the validity of the accusations and confessions . The Church also tried to negotiate a compromise with Philip that would allow the Templars to reform or merge with another order, but this failed due to Philip’s opposition and the Templars’ resistance . The Church eventually dissolved the order in 1312 and transferred its assets to another order, the Knights Hospitaller . The Church has acknowledged that the persecution of the Knights Templar was unjustified. The church claims that Pope Clement was pressured by secular rulers to destroy the order.
[Y1N9] Alright, lets move on. The Eastern Crusades, or any of the others for that matter (except the fifth, for obvious reasons. That one wasn't instigated by the church). I feel those weren't justified by their own religion and where a transgression against the Good
[Bing] Okay, let’s move on. According to the web sources I found, the Eastern Crusades were a series of religious wars initiated in 1095 by the Roman Catholic Church. They continued, in various forms, for centuries. The most well-known Crusades took place between 1095 and 1291 in the Near East, where European Christian armies attempted to recover the city of Jerusalem and other holy sites from Islamic rule . The Eastern Crusades also included campaigns against other Muslim states, such as Egypt, Syria, and Anatolia, as well as against non-Christian peoples, such as the Mongols and the Baltic pagans . The Eastern Crusades were motivated by a combination of factors, such as religious zeal, papal authority, feudal obligations, economic interests, political rivalries, and personal ambitions . The Eastern Crusades had various impacts on both the Christian and Muslim worlds, such as cultural exchanges, trade relations, population movements, territorial changes, military innovations, and religious conflicts .
Some of the transgressions that the Eastern Crusaders committed include:
Massacring and plundering civilians and defenders of captured cities, such as Jerusalem in 1099 and 1187, Antioch in 1098, Constantinople in 1204, and Damietta in 1219 .
Attacking and looting Christian allies or rivals, such as the Byzantine Empire in 1204, the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia in 1198 and 1216, and the Christian city of Zara in 1202 .
Persecuting and discriminating against Jews and Orthodox Christians in the Crusader states and Latin Empire .
Breaking oaths and treaties with Muslim leaders or fellow Crusaders .
Abandoning or betraying their comrades or causes for personal gain or convenience .
[Y1N9] Oh wait, I forgot about all the public book burnings. Can you make a list of the public book burnings the church was involved in?
[Bing] Sure, I can make a list of some of the public book burnings that the Church was involved in. According to the web sources I found, some of them are:
The burning of the Talmud and other Jewish books in Paris in 1242 and 1244, ordered by Pope Gregory IX and King Louis IX of France, who accused the Jews of blasphemy and heresy .
The burning of the works of John Wycliffe, an English theologian who criticized the Church’s corruption and doctrines, in Prague in 1410 and in England in 1428, ordered by various Church councils and authorities .
The burning of the works of Jan Hus, a Czech reformer who followed Wycliffe’s teachings and was executed as a heretic, in Constance in 1415, ordered by the Council of Constance .
The burning of the works of William Tyndale, an English translator who produced the first printed English Bible, in Antwerp in 1526 and in London in 1530, ordered by Cardinal Wolsey and King Henry VIII of England, who opposed Tyndale’s Protestant views .
The burning of the works of Martin Luther, a German monk who sparked the Protestant Reformation with his 95 Theses against the Church’s abuses, in Rome in 1521 and in other Catholic cities, ordered by Pope Leo X and Emperor Charles V, who excommunicated and outlawed Luther as a heretic .
The burning of the works of Giordano Bruno, an Italian philosopher who supported Copernican cosmology and pantheism, in Rome in 1600, ordered by the Inquisition, which also burned Bruno himself at the stake .
The burning of the works of Galileo Galilei, an Italian astronomer who defended heliocentrism and challenged the Church’s authority on science, in Rome in 1633, ordered by the Inquisition, which also forced Galileo to recant his views under threat of torture .
The burning of the works of Jansenists, a Catholic movement that emphasized original sin and predestination, in Paris in 1713 and 1732, ordered by Pope Clement XI and King Louis XV of France, who condemned Jansenism as a heresy .
[Y1N9] Yeah the entire story of Jan Hus and the Hussites. That was pretty bad too. Not just the execution of Hus himself, but also the entire war linked to all of it. Anyway, continuing. Here's a big one in my book (I'm a philosopher). The murder of Hypatia of Alexandria and the subsequent cannonization of Cyril of Alexandria, who's smear campaign not only destroyed the Library of Alexandria, but is a direct cause of the murder of Hypatia. Him not getting punished would not fly in modern courts
[Bing] I see. You are interested in the story of Hypatia of Alexandria and her relation to the Catholic Church. According to the web sources I found, Hypatia was a Greek philosopher, mathematician, and astronomer who lived in Alexandria in the late 4th and early 5th centuries AD. She was the daughter of Theon, the last known member of the Museum of Alexandria, a center of learning and culture that housed the famous Library of Alexandria. Hypatia was a respected teacher and scholar who wrote commentaries on classical works and made contributions to geometry, algebra, and astronomy. She was also an influential figure in the city’s intellectual and political life, having close ties with the prefect Orestes and other civic leaders. She was an avowed pagan who defended the values of Hellenic culture and philosophy against the rise of Christianity.
Hypatia’s death was a result of a violent conflict between Orestes and Cyril, the patriarch of Alexandria, who represented the Catholic Church. Cyril was a zealous defender of orthodox Christianity who opposed religious tolerance and sought to assert his authority over the city. He clashed with Orestes over several issues, such as the rights of the Jewish community, the regulation of public festivals, and the nomination of bishops. Hypatia was seen as an ally of Orestes and a symbol of pagan learning and culture that Cyril wanted to eradicate. In March 415 AD, a mob of Christian fanatics led by a lector named Peter attacked Hypatia as she was riding in her chariot. They dragged her to a church, stripped her naked, beat her to death with tiles or flayed her with shells, tore her body into pieces, and burned her remains.
Hypatia’s murder shocked the civilized world and became a symbol of the end of classical antiquity and the triumph of fanaticism. Many ancient and modern writers have praised her virtues and lamented her fate. However, Cyril was never punished for his role in her death; on the contrary, he was later canonized by the Catholic Church and is regarded as one of the Doctors of the Church. His smear campaign against Hypatia may have also contributed to the destruction of the Library of Alexandria, which was burned by his followers or by invading Arabs in subsequent years.
there is too much Jessy pinkman vibe in all my words.
we all know the real Jessy would not survive this world, he did only because he was in a film with Heisenberg.