Why are some people so much against EVs and clean renewable energy sources?

[Iggy Wolf]

I mean, I don't know if it's strictly an American thing, in which a certain party constantly looks down on and mocks EVs and clean sources of energy, or it's actually more widespread in the world than I think, but I'm curious why so many people have such a negative and skeptical viewpoint?

Don't get me wrong, I imagine it wasn't that weird at the time to be skeptical of the internal combustion engine either when it was first introduced, and that the "horse and buggy" was a tried and true method of transportation, so people wouldn't be so quick to abandon it. But it seems to me that unlike those people, people today have the luxury of hindsight, in knowing that evidence and research has been done and actual results have been seen that have yielded better gains and experience with cleaner sources of energy.

Even if you couldn't get all cars to be EVs, having more of them be hybrids would still be an improvement. I once drove a hybrid because it was given to me as a rental. I immediately noticed how I got 600 miles on it vs the 400 my current car gets. MORE mileage for LESS money?! Who wouldn't want that?!! But it seems to me that people seem to have some kind of "personal attachment" to their gas guzzlers and/or ideology surrounding fossil fuels.

Seems like it's more a matter of money and convenience. If hybrids were as cheap and convenient as regular cars, I'm sure more people would maybe be open to the idea. Assuming that THOSE are the reasons why, and not some stupid "ideological stance" just to "own the [insert opposing political party here]".

[WhiteKnight77]

Dutchgamer1982 eredeti hozzászólása:

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Not necessarily. I lived maybe 3/4 of a mile from a bus stop with another a mile away on a different route. I also needed to change buses for a second route to get to work. It took me an hour to get to work for something that would normally be a 10-15 minute drive.

Currently, I live a mile from the office I work out of, but due to the kind of work I do, I may drive 10 minutes to get to a job site to 4 hours, one way. I could not take a bus or a train due to the tools, drawings and other items I would need to take with me and I leave straight from home to go to these job sites and may or may not go back to the office at the end of the day. Just yesterday I drove 150 miles to 3 different job site with the furthest being an hour away. No bus, train, tram/light rail or other type of public transportation would allow me to get to all those places.


If carbon sinks are wanted, then cutting down trees to build large solar farms is not the way to go about it.

when I say : better public transport.
that not equals : using the terrible busses. there excist now.


1 scraping car centrism moves you destination at least 1/3d closer to you by comoressing all those enpty parking lots away.

2 there should be a lightrail or metro stop at a maximun distance of 0.3 miles tops.
and 0.15 miles average.
-
meaning only having to walk 0 3 miles not 1.5 thats only 10 minutes of walking.

the trams/metro stopping there should do so certainly during commute hours at a very high frequence ofconce every 10 minutes so your average wait is just 5 minutes.

this lightrail has dedicated tracks and zooms past the traffic jam not get stuck into it as well.

public traffic in usa us horrible on purpose thats why nobody wants to use it, but it can be made to be actually great!
likewise biking and walking in usa is mortally dangerous again thata by design not cause it has to be that way.

you need to completly overhaul your urban planning away from car centrism

Where I lived, the closest metro station was still more than an hour bus ride away, even though it was 10 miles from my apartment, and I often used the metro to go into downtown Atlanta.

But again, the point is, the neighboring county does not have the metro and Atlanta's metro is 4 lines, north/south and east/west with a couple of branch lines off the main lines. It just does not go everywhere that people are and not outside of the 2 counties that it currently is, so those in Metro Atlanta are relegated to buses to get around if they do not have cars or wish to use public transportation and even the buses do not go everywhere outside of the 2 counties where the metro runs.

And you completely missed the point that in my work, I have no choice but to drive to get to job sites due to the amount of supplies I need to carry.

[Slim]

Xero_Daxter eredeti hozzászólása:

I have an idea. Make the car out of the same materials that solar panels are made of so your car can run forever… at least during the day.

Or better yet; Walk! And don't you dare complain when you get charged out the ass when an electrician hands you a massive bill cause they had to lug their tools and equipment across town to do some basic job.

[Dutchgamer1982]

talemore eredeti hozzászólása:

funewchie eredeti hozzászólása:

Dude, it takes an hour to walk from one side of your country to the other.

Who on earth rides a bike to work?
Oh sure, exhaust yourself pedaling there for an hour in blazing heat and humidity (or freezing cold), and then spend 9 hours constantly on your feet working, followed by pedaling back home.
Bearing in mind this also means you cannot make a detour to pick up anything at the store, for instance (since you certainly can't haul bags of groceries on a bike).

But sure, go straight to work, then straight home. Do not deviate. Exert yourself until you die.
Anyone else also catching that faint whiff of chairman Mao?
------

And of course, after page after page, none of the pro-EV group has addressed the ultimate reason EVs are unfeasible: The batteries.

About how it is far more polluting to mine and process the lithium to make the batteries, which are only good for a short time.
No matter how you generate electricity, the batteries are the biggest roadblock.

(Of course, there's also the part where they still have to use constantly running fossil fuel generators to make electricity. And how so-called "green" energy is not, and never will be, up to the task.)

Ask the children to pick it up or a family member. If you don't have any of it you're more lost than I am.

on a dutch bike you can certainly pickup things. whole box of large billy ikea cases 20 liter of paint. panel of board and 40 kg of groceries np.

[Ulfrinn]

RRW359 eredeti hozzászólása:

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

Well, at least there are some merits to the concept of electric trollies. Buses, no.

Wait until you hear about trollybusses.

Which retain all downsides that normal buses have

[Dutchgamer1982]

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Dutchgamer1982 eredeti hozzászólása:

when I say : better public transport.
that not equals : using the terrible busses. there excist now.


1 scraping car centrism moves you destination at least 1/3d closer to you by comoressing all those enpty parking lots away.

2 there should be a lightrail or metro stop at a maximun distance of 0.3 miles tops.
and 0.15 miles average.
-
meaning only having to walk 0 3 miles not 1.5 thats only 10 minutes of walking.

the trams/metro stopping there should do so certainly during commute hours at a very high frequence ofconce every 10 minutes so your average wait is just 5 minutes.

this lightrail has dedicated tracks and zooms past the traffic jam not get stuck into it as well.

public traffic in usa us horrible on purpose thats why nobody wants to use it, but it can be made to be actually great!
likewise biking and walking in usa is mortally dangerous again thata by design not cause it has to be that way.

you need to completly overhaul your urban planning away from car centrism

Where I lived, the closest metro station was still more than an hour bus ride away, even though it was 10 miles from my apartment, and I often used the metro to go into downtown Atlanta.

But again, the point is, the neighboring county does not have the metro and Atlanta's metro is 4 lines, north/south and east/west with a couple of branch lines off the main lines. It just does not go everywhere that people are and not outside of the 2 counties that it currently is, so those in Metro Atlanta are relegated to buses to get around if they do not have cars or wish to use public transportation and even the buses do not go everywhere outside of the 2 counties where the metro runs.

And you completely missed the point that in my work, I have no choice but to drive to get to job sites due to the amount of supplies I need to carry.

1 the mayory needs not to carry that much
2 on a dutch bike one can transport a sizable load.
3 cargo bikes are a thing too.
4 don't you exagerate many americans shout but heavy load while most trips thats not the case at all..

[RRW359]

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

RRW359 eredeti hozzászólása:

Wait until you hear about trollybusses.

Which retain all downsides that normal buses have

Better on hills then trains, no batteries (although small batteries or ICE's aren't unheard of for emergencies), no need to worry about weight causing the battery to drain faster or lower MPG even if they are articulated, no time wasted fueling/charging.

[Full_Throttle_F14]

If carmakers are insane enough to put large lithium batteries inside a family sedan, why not incorporate solar roofs? Solar panels into the design of the car? conductive paint? Regenerative braking? Why don't we see these in mass production?

[Your_White_Knight]

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

Your_White_Knight eredeti hozzászólása:

You're right in a way...

" if anyone thinks any of it is about "saving the environment"...it's always about the money"

But not in the way most "green energy" people think...

They spent 5 TRILLION dollars on "green energy" so gas/oil went from 86% worldwide to 84%

https://youtu.be/qSCTTSZcTL0

They'll go so far into debt they'll crash the economy before "going green" getting more then 2%

So yes... it's not about "saving the environment" it's about "bankrupting the governments"

Well, government as an entity won't get that $5 trillion, but those in government invested in the companies, or receiving money from them will benefit. It's really just corrupt people laundering our money into their own bank accounts. No different than with the forever wars.

No, no... you misunderstand.

The government ~spent~ that 5 Trillion on "green" to scientists and companies that only "prevented" a 2% for what is now... it's a waste of money to spend 5T for 2% and will bankrupt them ( and since "they" are actually us because we pay for that from taxes, to EVs, to LEDs...

The government ~gets~ votes... that's all they really are interested in.

In the end the only people making a profit off of "green energy" is scientists and companies chasing after the "green energy" pie in the sky forever moving the goalposts and upping the fear mongering in order to dream about perfectly "green powered" world that might not even be possible..

Politicians have their hands in both coal / nuclear ~and~ solar / wind 's pockets... it doesn't matter to them who comes out on top... as long as it gets the votes to stay in power they'll tell anyone what they want to hear... so around and around we go... like you said "forever war"

[Tesityr]

Full_Throttle_F14 eredeti hozzászólása:

If carmakers are insane enough to put large lithium batteries inside a family sedan, why not incorporate solar roofs? Solar panels into the design of the car? conductive paint? Regenerative braking? Why don't we see these in mass production?

because those 'actually work' - as far as being energy productive, anyway. it's about making money, not actually helping humans or the environment.... once you change your way of thinking to that - then look at all they are doing - it makes sense then

[talemore]

There's always an investment ponzi

All these renewable companies are falling apart as the investment scheme goes to its end of the cycle.

The recession is a big ponzi scheme to laundering money. Instítutes found with their pants down or are themselves creating the ponzi.

When the con art loses money it's your fault and must be punished for not investing enough in their ponzi. Governments are being drawn into as more investors are gathered the politicians are getting financial loses who the government steps in, This is what we call the "Too big to fall" Ponzi which has no real claim to work, if it wasn't for the politicians involved into investments and are self the con arts.

Recession + Luxury goods is unrealistic , many economics would say it to be impossible without extreme market manipulation of banks giving loans to people who will never pay them back.

Banks self are shipping the falling dollar to other countries while begging europe to buy US- bonds to ensure the dollar won't decline in value.

Solar panels, EV, Renewable energy is the same BS the grocery store is using with local produced food. That food is sent to china or india for repackage and back home again since the cost of the food drops with the value of the currency. For the same reason Tesla sends their EV to China and Toyota is scratching their heads how they're even going to produce their EV , trying to copycat everything of the Tesla by openly telling that they're pretty much making Tesla cars since they have no way to develop the tech.

They can't increase the value of the EV since there are no buyers and polestar has yet to prove ever having a profit rather than living on production charts who companies gives to institutions. Production itself do not produce any value than the fact that your junk is traded by nations and why consumer waste is the production value.

Most people value old cars and the richest argument behind the EV is that it's the poor man's car and they will drive around with ICE while the losers drive around with EV.

[Z i o ⚡]

I used to like the idea of it when it was a new thing but the reason it's not so good is because it's being said to be good for the environment when it really is bad in lots of ways, especially with a bigger car like an electric hummer. Small eco cars are still the best environmentally. Even motorcycles, besides being to noisy sometimes.

Xero_Daxter eredeti hozzászólása:

I have an idea. Make the car out of the same materials that solar panels are made of so your car can run forever… at least during the day.

It's not that simple to do.

[WhiteKnight77]

Dutchgamer1982 eredeti hozzászólása:

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Where I lived, the closest metro station was still more than an hour bus ride away, even though it was 10 miles from my apartment, and I often used the metro to go into downtown Atlanta.

But again, the point is, the neighboring county does not have the metro and Atlanta's metro is 4 lines, north/south and east/west with a couple of branch lines off the main lines. It just does not go everywhere that people are and not outside of the 2 counties that it currently is, so those in Metro Atlanta are relegated to buses to get around if they do not have cars or wish to use public transportation and even the buses do not go everywhere outside of the 2 counties where the metro runs.

And you completely missed the point that in my work, I have no choice but to drive to get to job sites due to the amount of supplies I need to carry.

1 the mayory needs not to carry that much
2 on a dutch bike one can transport a sizable load.
3 cargo bikes are a thing too.
4 don't you exagerate many americans shout but heavy load while most trips thats not the case at all..

One would die on a bike trying to go from downtown Atlanta where the Ikea is to the Smyrna/Marietta area trying to get a Billy bookcase back home. It is rather hilly and not flat like The Netherlands. I know, I have ridden a bike in The Netherlands quite often over the 3 months that I was there. I rented a larger vehicle to get Billy bookcases back home (I have a total of 4 of them not counting the 6 CD/DVD cases that went with them while they sold them).

My personal truck is a 1/2 ton truck and I have had more than that in the bed and it was above the roof and filled up the back seat. I drove 660+ miles back home loaded like that. That is not possible with a bike or on a train.

[Harry Gumdropzap]

because there are still some environmental issues and tinfoil hats

[Your_White_Knight]

Not to mention people might liven in a "urban area"... they still might not ~work~ in that same "urban area"... and might have to travel that 20-30 minute drive either way to where they work in the next town / city over...

And public transit doesn't go ~between~ "urban areas" around here, they stay in their area... neither train nor bus goes from "urban areas" to "urban areas".

Not going to even comment on "bikes" other then ya... 5" of snow and 20+ mph wins in winter...

You're not thinking that one through.. "in The Netherlands" fine... "the Netherlands gets nowhere near as much snow or is as cold as most Canadian cities. Dutch winters are instead mainly characterized by wind and rain.."

"Bikes..."

https://youtu.be/HNy--_r5eW0

[talemore]

The narrative continues