Opinions on the 'dont say gay' law in florida

[fender jag]

This is going to get controversial and ill prolly get banned but screw it. they suck at baseball and lsu is arguably better

[Dom]

Entity eredeti hozzászólása:

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

So it's actually not a children's safety thing at all? That is just an excuse to discriminate against minorities? If parents want to talk to their kid about sex when they're 5 that's completely OK but teachers cannot mention gays until students are 12? Just as I expected.

Though that's what many conservatives believe in. Children's safety can be thrown into a trash can when it's about parents. Parents should have the status of a god. And, when it's about education children's safety suddenly becomes a serious matter, since conservatives have always attacked education with the double standards. Though it is a strategic game for them because educated people vote disproportionately democrats. Thankfully, Trump's desperate attempts to abolish Department of Education failed because there's still little bit of intelligence left in the systems of governance, despite the leader.

What? That teachers and you should have more access to the children of others to feed your ideology into them, while trying to besmirch parents and say they shouldn’t? Who put you into the position of god over the children of others? The parents should be the best placed people for what the child needs in their life, as they see them warts and all. At no point did they say it was not about the safety of the child. That was you putting that there to justify your partisan behaviour and colour their post as being bigoted, when it is not. No, many, many parents are getting angrier at these blatant attempts to ♥♥♥♥ with the minds of their children. If you think people are bigoted for that, then I think you are far, far worse.

Thankfully many parents are waking up to the attempts by strangers to sexualise their kid, and I can only assume there will eventually be hell to pay. Many parents would die for their kids. You wouldn’t die for anyone else’s.

That is of course making the assumption that every parent knows what is best for their children, and that parents cannot do harm for their children. Which is untrue. It's a complete lie.

Parents can ruin the life of their child. Without going back.

If we are making the presumption that this is a child safety matter, purely, and that is the claimed motivation to take action against schools and education, then it should apply equally to both educational institutions and parents then. And if something "harmful" is being done in schools that justifies a reaction, then that same harm cannot be justified in private homes.

But it has become clear over time that many conservatives are actually not concerned about children's safety here. In fact, for many it's not a children's safety matter at all. They are simply concerned about parental authority being challenged.

Parental authority and children's safety are two completely different matters.

[Ulfrinn]

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Entity eredeti hozzászólása:

What? That teachers and you should have more access to the children of others to feed your ideology into them, while trying to besmirch parents and say they shouldn’t? Who put you into the position of god over the children of others? The parents should be the best placed people for what the child needs in their life, as they see them warts and all. At no point did they say it was not about the safety of the child. That was you putting that there to justify your partisan behaviour and colour their post as being bigoted, when it is not. No, many, many parents are getting angrier at these blatant attempts to ♥♥♥♥ with the minds of their children. If you think people are bigoted for that, then I think you are far, far worse.

Thankfully many parents are waking up to the attempts by strangers to sexualise their kid, and I can only assume there will eventually be hell to pay. Many parents would die for their kids. You wouldn’t die for anyone else’s.

That is of course making the assumption that every parent knows what is best for their children, and that parents cannot do harm for their children. Which is untrue. It's a complete lie.

Parents can ruin the life of their child. Without going back.

If we are making the presumption that this is a child safety matter, purely, and that is the claimed motivation to take action against schools and education, then it should apply equally to both educational institutions and parents then. And if something "harmful" is being done in schools that justifies a reaction, then that same harm cannot be justified in private homes.

But it has become clear over time that many conservatives are actually not concerned about children's safety here. In fact, for many it's not a children's safety matter at all. They are simply concerned about parental authority being challenged.

Parental authority and children's safety are two completely different matters.

You're making the assumption government employees know better than parents. You're also making the assumption that parents DON'T know what's best, and in all likeliness, you're basing that off whether or not those parents align with YOUR political beliefs. You're not going to win this.

And no, teachers are not equals to parents. They are strangers paid to do a job, and that job does not include sexualizing 8-year-olds.

[Dom]

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

That is of course making the assumption that every parent knows what is best for their children, and that parents cannot do harm for their children. Which is untrue. It's a complete lie.

Parents can ruin the life of their child. Without going back.

If we are making the presumption that this is a child safety matter, purely, and that is the claimed motivation to take action against schools and education, then it should apply equally to both educational institutions and parents then. And if something "harmful" is being done in schools that justifies a reaction, then that same harm cannot be justified in private homes.

But it has become clear over time that many conservatives are actually not concerned about children's safety here. In fact, for many it's not a children's safety matter at all. They are simply concerned about parental authority being challenged.

Parental authority and children's safety are two completely different matters.

You're making the assumption government employees know better than parents. You're also making the assumption that parents DON'T know what's best, and in all likeliness, you're basing that off whether or not those parents align with YOUR political beliefs. You're not going to win this.

I'm not making an assumption that government employees know better than parents.

You're making the assumption that parents know better than government employees.

Just to 180 this. You're the assuming party.

[Ulfrinn]

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

You're making the assumption government employees know better than parents. You're also making the assumption that parents DON'T know what's best, and in all likeliness, you're basing that off whether or not those parents align with YOUR political beliefs. You're not going to win this.

I'm not making an assumption that government employees know better than parents.

You're making the assumption that parents know better than government employees.

Just to 180 this. You're the assuming party.

I would definitely trust parents to care more about the best interests of their own child than a government employee. And I'm sure you have some small example of bad parents that you want to magnify and sensationalize to try to use an exception to make a rule so you can push your authoritarian ideals onto free citizens. But it's not going to work. Parents are going to win. They are winning, and many places, have already won. And teachers who cannot respect that have no business being inside a school. Children are not government property.

[Dom]

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm not making an assumption that government employees know better than parents.

You're making the assumption that parents know better than government employees.

Just to 180 this. You're the assuming party.

I would definitely trust parents to care more about the best interests of their own child than a government employee. And I'm sure you have some small example of bad parents that you want to magnify and sensationalize to try to use an exception to make a rule so you can push your authoritarian ideals onto free citizens. But it's not going to work. Parents are going to win. They are winning, and many places, have already won. And teachers who cannot respect that have no business being inside a school. Children are not government property.

Children are not government property but children are not the property of the parents either, parents don't "own" their children. They have parental rights which are granted to them by law.

Thanks for admitting that you operate on the basis of assumptions. Much appreciated.

Because I don't make assumptions. I try to be more pragmatic, understand the situation at hand, as something broader that you cannot apply black-and-white thinking to. It's not either-or, it's not school vs parents, and it is not "one fits all" question.

I appreciate this response.

[Ulfrinn]

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

I would definitely trust parents to care more about the best interests of their own child than a government employee. And I'm sure you have some small example of bad parents that you want to magnify and sensationalize to try to use an exception to make a rule so you can push your authoritarian ideals onto free citizens. But it's not going to work. Parents are going to win. They are winning, and many places, have already won. And teachers who cannot respect that have no business being inside a school. Children are not government property.

Children are not government property but children are not the property of the parents either, parents don't "own" their children. They have parental rights which are granted to them by law.

Thanks for admitting that you operate on the basis of assumptions. Much appreciated.

Because I don't make assumptions. I try to be more pragmatic, understand the situation at hand, as something broader that you cannot apply black-and-white thinking to. It's not either-or, it's not school vs parents, and it is not "one fits all" question.

I appreciate this response.

Parental rights aren't "granted" by government. Maybe in Nazi Germany they were, but thankfully, I don't live there.

[Dom]

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Children are not government property but children are not the property of the parents either, parents don't "own" their children. They have parental rights which are granted to them by law.

Thanks for admitting that you operate on the basis of assumptions. Much appreciated.

Because I don't make assumptions. I try to be more pragmatic, understand the situation at hand, as something broader that you cannot apply black-and-white thinking to. It's not either-or, it's not school vs parents, and it is not "one fits all" question.

I appreciate this response.

Parental rights aren't "granted" by government. Maybe in Nazi Germany they were, but thankfully, I don't live there.

They are granted by the government. 100%.

They are not even part of the "natural rights" which the theocratic foundation of USA claims is a thing (it's not).

[Ulfrinn]

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

Parental rights aren't "granted" by government. Maybe in Nazi Germany they were, but thankfully, I don't live there.

They are granted by the government. 100%.

They are not even part of the "natural rights" which the theocratic foundation of USA claims is a thing (it's not).

And you prove again you know nothing about your favorite topic, the United States.

[Dom]

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

They are granted by the government. 100%.

They are not even part of the "natural rights" which the theocratic foundation of USA claims is a thing (it's not).

And you prove again you know nothing about your favorite topic, the United States.

I do. And what you're saying (or, suggesting) is actually extremely disgusting and dangerous.

If parental rights are not granted by the government, then they cannot be taken away by that government. So children can be tortured and assaulted and no one can take action since it would interfere with these "natural" parental rights. Children can never be taken away from their abusive parents, no matter what the abuse is.

Thankfully the world & reality is not this crazy utopia inside your head, and parental rights are still government-granted rights (which can be taken away) in accordance with the civil/population registry of the government & Child Protection Services.

[Ulfrinn]

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

And you prove again you know nothing about your favorite topic, the United States.

I do. And what you're saying (or, suggesting) is actually extremely disgusting and dangerous.

If parental rights are not granted by the government, then they cannot be taken away by that government. So children can be tortured and assaulted and no one can take action since it would interfere with these "natural" parental rights. Children can never be taken away from their abusive parents, no matter what the abuse is.

Thankfully the world & reality is not this crazy utopia inside your head, and parental rights are still government-granted rights (which can be taken away) in accordance with the civil/population registry of the government.

Looks like someone doesn't understand due process.

[Dom]

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

I do. And what you're saying (or, suggesting) is actually extremely disgusting and dangerous.

If parental rights are not granted by the government, then they cannot be taken away by that government. So children can be tortured and assaulted and no one can take action since it would interfere with these "natural" parental rights. Children can never be taken away from their abusive parents, no matter what the abuse is.

Thankfully the world & reality is not this crazy utopia inside your head, and parental rights are still government-granted rights (which can be taken away) in accordance with the civil/population registry of the government.

Looks like someone doesn't understand due process.

I do. I also understand logic. If the government has the ability to take some right of yours away, then they have authority over that right and they have granted it initially.

But yes, you're once again demonstrating that the agenda here is not children's safety & protection (it's just an excuse). It is to impose parental authority.

Abuse in schools is bad abuse, abuse in homes is better abuse. Or am I missing something?

[Grim Reaper]

I didn't know what it was, but despite it's name, after looking at the contents of the bill I think that no it doesn't discriminate. All it does is prohibit teaching about sexual orientation, and things like gender identity in kindergartens and schools. People will learn about these things anyway later on in life, but some people will claim it's still discrimination because these children might not become as narcissistic as they are.

If you are one of those people, do you honestly think that propping up an individuals ego or "quirks", is good even at the cost of the collective? Collectives build civilizations, not narcissists who want to feel special, the most important takeaway is that schools are meant to be institutions that create a collective not an individual.

[Ulfrinn]

Dom eredeti hozzászólása:

Ulfrinn eredeti hozzászólása:

Looks like someone doesn't understand due process.

I do. I also understand logic. If the government has the ability to take some right of yours away, then they have authority over that right and they have granted it initially.

But yes, you're once again demonstrating that the agenda here is not children's safety & protection (it's just an excuse). It is to impose parental authority.

Abuse in schools is bad abuse, abuse in homes is better abuse. Or am I missing something?

Again, read up on due process. Government has to take your to court, and plead their case on front of a judge, with evidence of an actual crime (not teaching your kids to be a liberal doesn't count) and only then doesn't anything happen. If they were the source of parental rights then parents would need to seek their permission and approval to do anything. The 5th amendment disapproves your argument with case law and precedents reinforcing that going back well before even your parents were born.

[Ulfrinn]

Grim Reaper eredeti hozzászólása:

I didn't know what it was, but despite it's name, after looking at the contents of the bill I think that no it doesn't discriminate. All it does is prohibit teaching about sexual orientation, and things like gender identity in kindergartens and schools. People will learn about these things anyway later on in life, but some people will claim it's still discrimination because these children might not become as narcissistic as they are.

If you are one of those people, do you honestly think that propping up an individuals ego or "quirks", is good even at the cost of the collective? Collectives build civilizations, not narcissists who want to feel special, the most important takeaway is that schools are meant to be institutions that create a collective not an individual.

Virtually no one who has actually read it has an issue with it, the people who do read a media headline about it and that is the basis of their beliefs about it. Assuming they aren't just putting out a bunch of bad faith arguments to troll

[R]

It's stuff like this that makes me amazed America is even a real place. How deeply rooted is the male ego and its insecurities? We might be having a gay President here in Finland next :D Not that I care, but it's just a funny thought considering there's antiquity such as this in the world still