Japan lost more people to poor culture and law than Ukraine did because of war last year

[Grim Reaper]

I found this to be an interesting topic, so let's remain civil, and let's also try to keep to discussing Japan instead of the other country mentioned.

This data doesn't seem to account for immigrants leaving their country, so keep that in mind, it takes in how many people were born vs how many people died.

This puts into perspective just how self-destructive the effects of hyper-capitalism are when combined with Bushido and strict migration laws. While nobody has the right to demand Japan take in immigrants, it certainly might be advisable, however the root of the problem is the extremely long work hours in Japan. Things such as sleeping in the office are common place, and activities that would be voluntary, such as hanging out with your boss at a pub are instead mandatory in Japan. There is also the fact that having a career is worshipped in East Asian countries, starting at a young age where students have to go through some of the most extreme schooling systems in the world.


South Korea is everything I said about Japan but worse, if Prussia was a Military with a country, then Samsung is a corporation with a country, that being South Korea. Everyone talks about how bad North Korea is, however it's worth considering that at least North Koreans only wish to escape their country, while South Koreans wish to escape the world.

[kingjames488]

Messaggio originale di Uncle Sam:

Messaggio originale di kingjames488:

sooner or later...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQqlhqAUuQ

Yes we do laugh now, and make memes about it. However human relantionships and how we interact with each other, will change a lot during this century and the following ones. For better or for worse, time will tell ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

it has in the last century... and well you can see where we are.

[Tsubame ⭐]

Define "lost".

People are not dying in Japan.

I am assuming this is about people having fewer and fewer kids in East Asia.

This has nothing to do specifically with bushido or other cultural aspects of such countries.

In fact, birth rates have fallen drastically in all industrialized and liberal countries.

People all over the world are prioritizing career and other aspects of their own lives over kids.

Moreover, there are countries in Europe with fertility rates lower than Japan - i.e. Spain's has an IFR of 1.15, and Italy has an IFR of 1.25 or so, vs. Japan's 1.34. Canada is not far behind Japan at 1.4, and is only growing fast because it is absorbing a lot of immigrants.

South Korea has an abysmally low IFR of 0.75 so their population decline is going to be the worst in the world pretty soon.

There are outliers, which have different reasons:

- US' IFR of 1.7 due to a combination of a more conservative and religious society, and high absorption of immigrants that have more kids than the average population.
- France's IFR of 1.8 thanks to very generous maternity benefits.

Both are still under replacement level though.

[EASY PETE]

What happened

[kilésengati]

As you've correctly assessed: Who in their right mind would actually move to Japan to work a "nine"-to-"five" job?! Nah, better leave that karoshi thing to the natives.

If I were to win the lottery or had a job that I could work for from anywhere, moving to rural Hokkaido sounds nice though.

[Tsubame ⭐]

Karoshi and other work/life balance related things is getting gradually better in Japan, not every company demands overtime or every person kills themselves doing extra hours at work or at study, just like you have many workaholics and people who will take every overtime shift and/or 2nd or even 3rd jobs in the US or in Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours

More than just long hours at work the reason for people having fewer or no kids is career advancement and focus in other things in one's own life - fun, personal choice, etc.

Specifically, people who may want kids are increasingly limiting it to one or two, but more importantly, there are more and more people who do not want to have kids at all, not just in East Asia, but all over the industrialized world, and even many countries still not at developed level, such as Brazil - IFR of 1.7.

Fewer people want to have kids just for the sake of having them.

[kilésengati]

Messaggio originale di Tsubame ⭐:

Karoshi and other work/life balance related things is getting gradually better in Japan, not every company demands overtime or every person kills themselves doing extra hours at work or at study, just like you have many workaholics and people who will take every overtime shift and/or 2nd or even 3rd jobs in the US or in Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours

More than just long hours at work the reason for people having fewer or no kids is career advancement and focus in other things in one's own life - fun, personal choice, etc.

Specifically, people who may want kids are increasingly limiting it to one or two, but more importantly, there are more and more people who do not want to have kids at all.

Fewer people want to have kids just for the sake of having them.

Germany: Has a reputation of working hard… actually working the least on the list.

Keep in mind, this is a national average and doesn't take the difference from East to West, South to North and rural to urban into account. Which can be massive.

[Basarab Laiota]

i wanna give a shoulder massage to a cute japanese lady who's stressed from japan's hustle culture

[Tsubame ⭐]

Messaggio originale di kilésengati:

Messaggio originale di Tsubame ⭐:

Karoshi and other work/life balance related things is getting gradually better in Japan, not every company demands overtime or every person kills themselves doing extra hours at work or at study, just like you have many workaholics and people who will take every overtime shift and/or 2nd or even 3rd jobs in the US or in Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours

More than just long hours at work the reason for people having fewer or no kids is career advancement and focus in other things in one's own life - fun, personal choice, etc.

Specifically, people who may want kids are increasingly limiting it to one or two, but more importantly, there are more and more people who do not want to have kids at all.

Fewer people want to have kids just for the sake of having them.

Germany: Has a reputation of working hard… actually working the least on the list.

Keep in mind, this is a national average and doesn't take the difference from East to West, South to North and rural to urban into account. Which can be massive.

Stereotypes, there are all sorts of them. That is just one of them. If one does not know about something one often tends to generalize it.

I prefer to see Germans as efficient rather than "hard working" - as people all over the world do that to survive. Although even that is in question for me after seeing things like Brandeburg Airport delays or ICE trains stuck for hours...

Would not be surprised with them at the bottom of the list, given their very robust socioeconomical benefits.

As for the national average, it does provide better insight than just going with, "oh, I heard that people from such places do this and that". As I stated, people all over the world do engage in overtime or extra jobs, not just Japan. There may be companies that do incentive people to do overtime, but then again, so elsewhere.

In the other side of the spectrum, kids in Brazil mostly study only in the morning - or afternoons - and extra curricular activities are not as important as in the developed world. I remember fondly of coming home at 12:30 pm and having lunch at home instead of at school, not a ton of homework, and most or all of the rest of the day to play video games lol. Work culture tends to also be on the easy and relaxed side, compared to even Europe. Yet the country still has a fertility rate significantly below replacement level, even with education and other standards of living below that of the developed world.

[Rumpelcrutchskin]

There are many reasons for that imminent extinction.
Insane work ethics that are borderline slavery.
50% of women who work have only crappy temporary contracts not permanent well paying jobs.
Japanese men are used to women being like a house elf in home doing everything and working on top of that.
Majority of single mothers wont get any child support.
Most young women try to finish college and are forced into huge college loans. To repay the loans lot of them are forced into porn industry.
With increased inflation and living costs having kids is simply too expensive to afford,
Because majority of population is becoming elderly most of the government spending is spent on elderly leaving young people and young families practically unsupported.
Old people are behind the isolationist policy not letting immigrants into country so declining population causes decline in production and economy causing another downward spiral.

[nullpo]

Messaggio originale di Dracoco OwO:

Yeah living in Japan or some other asian country is just hardcore mode.

You'll get used to it.

[Triple G]

Messaggio originale di kilésengati:

Germany: Has a reputation of working hard… actually working the least on the list.

Probably also depends on how they get the numbers. Nowadays many are self-employed, so those wouldn´t be on a list of employed people. Many part-time jobs, so they reduce the number. In smaller companies overtime isn´t necessarily registered. And the working hard reputation isn´t really true, but one doesn´t need to go abroad to know that. Working here is enough. Also we have many public holidays and in comparison much vacations, also it´s more or less safe to stay at home when You´re ill. You wouldn´t lose the job, and get the same money the first 5 weeks...

But according to statista a full time employee in 2022 has 1,588.2 hours, and part-time 756.4 hours.

[nullpo]

Messaggio originale di Tsubame ⭐:

Karoshi and other work/life balance related things is getting gradually better in Japan, not every company demands overtime or every person kills themselves doing extra hours at work or at study, just like you have many workaholics and people who will take every overtime shift and/or 2nd or even 3rd jobs in the US or in Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours

More than just long hours at work the reason for people having fewer or no kids is career advancement and focus in other things in one's own life - fun, personal choice, etc.

Specifically, people who may want kids are increasingly limiting it to one or two, but more importantly, there are more and more people who do not want to have kids at all, not just in East Asia, but all over the industrialized world, and even many countries still not at developed level, such as Brazil - IFR of 1.7.

Fewer people want to have kids just for the sake of having them.

It's still harsh though. The company may not demand it, but your co-worker does. You'll be the topic of gossip and workplace harrassment. Heck I experienced that when I work part time as convenience store clerk there. So no, it only appears better policy wise, but the culture is still there 100%

[Tsubame ⭐]

Messaggio originale di nullpo:

Messaggio originale di Tsubame ⭐:

Karoshi and other work/life balance related things is getting gradually better in Japan, not every company demands overtime or every person kills themselves doing extra hours at work or at study, just like you have many workaholics and people who will take every overtime shift and/or 2nd or even 3rd jobs in the US or in Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours

More than just long hours at work the reason for people having fewer or no kids is career advancement and focus in other things in one's own life - fun, personal choice, etc.

Specifically, people who may want kids are increasingly limiting it to one or two, but more importantly, there are more and more people who do not want to have kids at all, not just in East Asia, but all over the industrialized world, and even many countries still not at developed level, such as Brazil - IFR of 1.7.

Fewer people want to have kids just for the sake of having them.

It's still harsh though. The company may not demand it, but your co-worker does. You'll be the topic of gossip and workplace harrassment. Heck I experienced that when I work part time as convenience store clerk there. So no, it only appears better policy wise, but the culture is still there 100%

Goes both ways as stated, I have worked in companies in North America that begged me and others for years to do overtime.

You do you, if others harass you because of this, well, that is their problem, not that you should say like that to them, but you do get the idea.