Why did the Ukraine Russian war start?

[Professor]

We all know the obvious of a typical land grad, a position of expanding territory. However can you list other reasons or provocations for the proxy Superpower seeking war?

War is never justifiable unless it is for defence, unlike sport, offence is never an excuse for defence. Could it be that the Ukraine is suffering for something their NATO partners did?

After all a small nation is given very little choice or becomes empowered by the politics of their stronger partners. There is no doubt that USA, EU, CHINA, RUSSIA are determinately considered SUPERPOWERS. And what happens when you poke the eye of any of these?

[Rio]

No one talks anymore about fort knox. But so so long ago it used to be in so many cartoons. And people would wonder if it was empty, because you weren't allowed to see inside it anymore.

Makes you wonder, since a lot of gold trading is digital.

What ever happened to that?

[kingjames488]

Sashie の投稿を引用：

No one talks anymore about fort knox. But so so long ago it used to be in so many cartoons. And people would wonder if it was empty, because you weren't allowed to see inside it anymore.

Makes you wonder, since a lot of gold trading is digital.

What ever happened to that?

they've only let people film in fort knox like twice now I think?

the first time was to prove there was in fact gold in there...

[Professor]

Donut の投稿を引用：

Professor の投稿を引用：

Yes you are right in saying that Cuba was never invaded, however the CRISES did develop because a foreign Superpower influenced the closest neighbour of another sovereign superpower. It seems they all have the right to respond.

It almost led to nuclear exchange & destabilised the planet for many months. My point being, how superpowers respond to the encroaching powers to sovereign threats, like military build ups along borders.

Well cuba didn't get invaded and fidel castro lived till old age so it's a very asymmetrical comparison. And the cuba crisis doesn't give the russians a permit to invade Ukraine.

I agree with you, as my only point was. "How superpowers respond to the encroaching powers to sovereign threats, like military build ups along borders" I used the Cuban Missile Crisis to highlight the historical outcome of one superpower getting to close to another.

No one is giving Russia any excuse, as the thread states

"War is never justifiable unless it is for defence, unlike sport, offence is never an excuse for defence"

[Your_White_Knight]

Professor の投稿を引用：

Why did the Ukraine Russian war start?

We all know the obvious of a a typical land grad, a position of expanding territory. However can you list other reasons or provocations for the proxy Superpower seeking war?

War is never justifiable unless it is for defence, unlike sport, offence is never an excuse for defence. Could it be that the Ukraine is suffering for something their NATO partners did?

After all a small nation is given very little choice or becomes empowered by the politics of their stronger partners. There is no doubt that USA, EU, CHINA, RUSSIA are determinately considered SUPERPOWERS. And what happens when you poke the eye of any of these?

Don't know... don't care...

Don't know if it's still going... won't care it's over.

[Bagel]

Professor の投稿を引用：

Donut の投稿を引用：

Well cuba didn't get invaded and fidel castro lived till old age so it's a very asymmetrical comparison. And the cuba crisis doesn't give the russians a permit to invade Ukraine.

I agree with you, as my only point was. "How superpowers respond to the encroaching powers to sovereign threats, like military build ups along borders" I used the Cuban Missile Crisis to highlight the historical outcome of one superpower getting to close to another.

No one is giving Russia any excuse, as the thread states

"War is never justifiable unless it is for defence, unlike sport, offence is never an excuse for defence"

But your original post says “Could it be that the Ukraine is suffering for something their NATO partners did?”, like it does imply that you seek for someone to repeat all the ‘russian nazi friendly’ conspiracies.

[Professor]

Donut の投稿を引用：

Professor の投稿を引用：

I agree with you, as my only point was. "How superpowers respond to the encroaching powers to sovereign threats, like military build ups along borders" I used the Cuban Missile Crisis to highlight the historical outcome of one superpower getting to close to another.

No one is giving Russia any excuse, as the thread states

"War is never justifiable unless it is for defence, unlike sport, offence is never an excuse for defence"

But your original post says “Could it be that the Ukraine is suffering for something their NATO partners did?”, like it does imply that you seek for someone to repeat all the ‘russian nazi friendly’ conspiracies.

No, I simply asked a question, how anyone decides to intemperate that is up to them as I am not here to convince anyone of anything. It is just a discussion in the hope to better understand the opinions of others.

[Grim Reaper]

I'd like to state that out of the 4 superpowers you mentioned Russia isn't a superpower, I'll get to why.

Generally Russia feels insecure due to the USSR losing the cold war and Russia being a shadow of it's former self, Russia went from controlling Northeast Germany, having a border with Iran from 2 sides, dominating the Baltic sea and controlling the breadbasket of Europe. To losing more than half of it's fertile and developed areas in Europe, on top of the entirety of Central Asia. The USSR wasn't Russia, but it was controlled by it, therefore their population shrunk by 50% and their economy went from the 2nd largest in the world to only the 5th largest in Europe behind Italy, Russia also antagonized itself which is why it's neighbors hate it yet they can't accept their decline.

The reason Russia isn't a superpower and will probably not be one in the coming centuries is due to their economy and (ironically) aggressive policy, on top of both China and EU seeming like more favorable partners to their neighbors. Russia's economy is not only corrupt but it also relies on oil exports, without oil Russia's economy is nothing, and since oil will nearly run out this century the rest of the world is making the transition to using other types of fuel, all of this means Russia is yet to experience it's greatest economic cataclysm.

Russia will do everything to convince you it's a superpower, yet like they always have been, they do not have enough "brains" to make technological progress at the same pace that the EU, China, or USA can. Russia has been about 30 years behind on military hardware in the past 100 years, which in part explains their poor performance in warfare over the 20th and 21st century, losing to Japan, achieving partial victory at a massive cost against Finland, losing to Afghanistan, losing against Chechnya, we can talk about WW2 however in that case i'd like to mention that the US land lease to the Soviet Union was so massive that the Soviet Union would have gotten it's teeth kicked in by Germany without it.

Russia's inability to transition to the Information age is similar to it's inability to transition to industrial era during the 19th and 20th century. There is no large tech company in Russia, while the US has too many to count, China also has a huge tech industry, and so does the EU, this means that Russia is not a superpower and a nation only sabotages itself by working with it instead of the 3 actual superpowers.

[TwisterCat]

Something about languages, something about catgirls.

[↑↑↓↓←→←→BASelect]

Because Ukraine wanted to join NATO and Russia didn't like that so they bombed Ukraine because of it.

[Xero_Daxter]

You Down With O.P.P.? の投稿を引用：

Because Ukraine wanted to join NATO and Russia didn't like that so they bombed Ukraine because of it.

I thought it was for territory and to gain access to the ocean.

[↑↑↓↓←→←→BASelect]

Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用：

You Down With O.P.P.? の投稿を引用：

Because Ukraine wanted to join NATO and Russia didn't like that so they bombed Ukraine because of it.

I thought it was for territory and to gain access to the ocean.

President Putin has made Ukraine's preliminary steps to joining NATO the principal grounds for the Russian invasion of Feb.

[White Knight]

This must have been covered, but I wouldn't know because I didn't read the thread.

I think you're missing the point OP. Putin is an autocrat in a nation that was once the mighty Russian Bear! The USSR... and it is no more. Russia dabbled in democracy for a while (in sort or a half-assed way that was mostly about sunglasses and blue-jeans) but Vladimir Putin put a stop to all of that Western nonsense!

Ukraine is just a symptom. As his empire crumbles, his people become more upset, and the leader must become more desperate to prove his worth.

Ukraine used to be Russia. They dared to choose for themselves. Some of them never wanted to leave mother Russia.

Take a mediocre intelligence agent, age him thirty years and give him power... and you get an illegal war on Ukraine.

That's it, that's all. It's a failed old man trying desperately to "Make Russia Great Again". This is why Trump wanted to suck up to him so badly.

It is the illusion of Empires that never were. And Putin is the Emperor who never was.

Putin is already done. Smart people are already worrying about who comes next.

[Q-T_3.14.exe]

Xero_Daxter の投稿を引用：

You Down With O.P.P.? の投稿を引用：

Because Ukraine wanted to join NATO and Russia didn't like that so they bombed Ukraine because of it.

I thought it was for territory and to gain access to the ocean.

Russia throughout it's history: Must have a warm water port.

[Grimmz]

i think it started from Ukraine trying to join nato and declining Russia's proposal to unite the lands. them joining nato would mean that they would have to put nuclear weapons just outside the Russia's borders.

to me it sounds pretty reasonable. i mean what would US president do in that case for example? if their neighbors put some rockets nearby their borders.

[Professor]

Grim Reaper の投稿を引用：

I'd like to state that out of the 4 superpowers you mentioned Russia isn't a superpower, I'll get to why.

I omitted the rest of your post to minimise duplication

After reading your very well thought out comprehensive post (#94) I certainly agree with you. There is very little doubt that Russia falls short of any superpower status at all. As you mentioned several key aspects as to why they are not. Like the diminishing size of their economy, an inability to modernise its industries & military hardware, the lack of technological development & her shrinking population. As for corruption, well I believe no nation is innocent of the scourge of corruption, but I guess it is also a factor in the case of Russia.

I can not really add any more as your post, more or less said it all. The only thing I would ponder is that Russia itself blindly or overtly, pretends to project itself as a superpower to maintain the historical grandeur of its past. This perhaps acts a deterrent, somewhat falsely but none the less may convince some smaller nations to not mess with her. LOL