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Scurrybt 8 mar, 2023 @ 22:35

Samurai vs Knight

If a Samurai and a Knight fought each other, who would win? Both have time to prepare and both have all the conventional equipment they had during their respective heydays. Also, neither are on horseback.

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Ursprungligen skrivet av Hammer Of Evil:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Scurrybt:
If a Samurai and a Knight fought each other, who would win? Both have time to prepare and both have all the conventional equipment they had during their respective heydays. Also, neither are on horseback.

hi scurry

> am a subject matter expert in metallurgy, among two other fields.

the reason so much work has to be put into japanese katana is because japan is a volcanic geostrata. meaning that the iron ore you mine there is very low purity.

what does purity really mean in the world of metallurgy? well without giving you a 8 hour lecture on deleterious inclusions in a given metallurgical microstructure, volcanic geostrata contains lots of PHOSPHOROUS and SULPHUR - both of these are VERY, VERY bad if they are inside of your iron or steel.

japanese folks found out you had to fold the steel to literally beat the daylights out of the metal enough to form a proper edge that wouldn't snap like a twig (which is what P and S do to your metal, make it super brittle.)

while the process may be honorable, the number of actual swords you can make per hour goes down to like zero. it took them days, weeks, to pound steel to the point where all the sulphur and phosphorous was out of the core.

so, other nations that had access to higher purity iron ore naturally (which is like everywhere else in the world, japan's is unfortunately some of the worst ore you can get) didn't have to put a quarter as much work into their iron to decarbeurize it (remove carbon, which is what makes steel.) enough to make it strong and tough to withstand blows.

unfortunately if you take warriors from both timeperiods and pit them against eachother, the japanese sword would probably not break the knight's armor, and the knights standard longsword would likely fold the katana in half, with the first blow struck.

its just, unfortunately, a product of nature in this regard.

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Visar 121-135 av 152 kommentarer

permanent name 9 mar, 2023 @ 17:12

Okay; here goes.

Full plate is a late gothic to early renaissance development.

Before then it was half plate, which was open in the back and prone to penetration by arrows. They wouldn’t get through the gambeson, but they would pin joints and prevent movement if they hit the wrong spot.

The same logic was behind using broad daggers and body checks to ram knives into plate users to pin and lock them, as well as simply knocking them down, rolling them over, and stabbing their backsides.

Worst case scenario you just knocked them down, stood on them, and then whacked them with a rock until something broke. Usually the faceplate on their helmet, or denting an arm joint until it pressed into their shoulder and ruptured an artery.

Senast ändrad av permanent name; 9 mar, 2023 @ 17:14

#121

permanent name 9 mar, 2023 @ 17:24

You’re hovering.

Stop.

You lost; accept it.

#122

Q-T_3.14.exe 9 mar, 2023 @ 17:47

I found this video.

YouTube™-video: SAMURAI VS KNIGHT!!!

more light sparring

No I am not making a point, I am just sharing a video xP

#123

Dutchgamer1982 9 mar, 2023 @ 17:55

Ursprungligen skrivet av Munithe EXT:
No one has mentioned horses either. Japanese samurai had slow weak ponies, English would have had Thoroughbreds.

am i no one? it was in my post 2 pages before yours!

#124

spasti696969 9 mar, 2023 @ 17:59

Ursprungligen skrivet av Dutchgamer1982:
Ursprungligen skrivet av Munithe EXT:
No one has mentioned horses either. Japanese samurai had slow weak ponies, English would have had Thoroughbreds.

am i no one? it was in my post 2 pages before yours!

Technically, knights have access to tanks and airplanes whereas the samurai were eradicated after World War 2.

#125

Scurrybt 9 mar, 2023 @ 18:07

Ursprungligen skrivet av spasti696969:
Ursprungligen skrivet av Dutchgamer1982:

am i no one? it was in my post 2 pages before yours!

Technically, knights have access to tanks and airplanes whereas the samurai were eradicated after World War 2.

And wrote a timeless book

#126

spasti696969 9 mar, 2023 @ 18:08

Ursprungligen skrivet av Scurrybt:
Ursprungligen skrivet av spasti696969:

Technically, knights have access to tanks and airplanes whereas the samurai were eradicated after World War 2.
And wrote a timeless book

*teary-eyed Tom Cruise* No, I will not tell you how he died. I will tell you... how he lived!

#127

Scurrybt 9 mar, 2023 @ 18:09

Ursprungligen skrivet av spasti696969:
Ursprungligen skrivet av Scurrybt:
And wrote a timeless book

*teary-eyed Tom Cruise* No, I will not tell you how he died. I will tell you... how he lived!

Lol, I was referring to JRR Tolkien XD

#128

steven1mac 9 mar, 2023 @ 18:39

Take away ranged weapons such as bows and guns, the knight will win more often then not. Better armor would win the day, since they both possessed similar martial skill. A knight would be familiar with curved swords and the Japaneses swords would just be a unique two handed variation of the design, and the pole-arm used by the Japanese would be familiar to him as well.

You really can't compare 1 nation with limited combat experience outside it's own borders to a continent who had frequent clash with it's neighbors.

#129

Grim Reaper 9 mar, 2023 @ 19:16

No way a Samurai is beating a Knight in any conventional match. Standard Katanas are curved slicing weapons, not really designed for thrusting, this is because Samurai didn't really protect themselves with anything since they rarely used shields and their armor was lighter. Their one chance to beat a Knight however, is the bow.

Knights are given 2 massive advantages in terms of both defense and offense, their defense doesn't just come down to often using shields but also their plate armor being sturdy as ♥♥♥♥. This is where the European sword comes in and absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥ the Katana by not just being a blade that can slice, but one that can also thrust. Thrusts were the most important type of attack to defeat another knight, this is because accurate thrusts could go into the gaps in the Knight's armor and kill him that way, this is the armor that is made to directly counter any slicing attacks, which are made even worse off by the use of shields.

In a fight it wouldn't even be remotely fair, as soon as the fight starts we have to consider the range, if it's long enough the Samurai might be able to score the win with his bow if he is lucky in getting past the shield and gaps in the armor. If the Knight starts off closer or gets closer then the fight might as well be over because there is no way that pathetic Katana is doing anything against that shield and armor, meanwhile the Knight could literally choose if he wants to stab his opponent, slice him up, or just say ♥♥♥♥ it and bludgeon the Samurai with his shield.

#130

☎need4naiim☎ 10 mar, 2023 @ 22:21

Ursprungligen skrivet av Ulfrinn:
Good grief, it's obvious a lot of people here have watched way too much anime. Made apparent by imagining the Samurai guy being able to just walk up behind the knight and stabbing him in the back because, armor was "so heavy". The fact is Samurai armor, and knight armor of the 15th and 16th century weighed about the same, about 20-30kg. Yet the medieval armor provided way more protection, and didn't limit mobility like you see in movies.

Furthermore, European swords were much longer and more powerful for the same overall weight as a katana, giving them more reach, more speed, and they were generally better balanced too, and less prone to being bent out of shape due to far better materials used.

A sword that is lighter for it's length, better balanced, is going to have way better control making a multitude of attacks quicker to perform, and more accurate. Which is why people who practice HEMA based on centuries old European fighting manuals consistently beat the people who study Kendo/Kenjutsu in sparring.

Hahahahahaah!

When did i say that Samurai wins BECAUSE OF katana????

Samurai wins due to his/her spiritual excellence and using his WHOLE body as the weapon, not just a katana.

Of course, "people who practice HEMA based on centuries old European fighting manuals consistently beat the people who study Kendo/Kenjutsu in sparring".

Because they are not Samurais. Being a Samurai takes your life, body and soul. You may SUPPOSE that you are effectively using katana but you would be WAY WAAAY off the dicipline of a true Samurai. A Samurai does not fight with his katana, but his spiritual essence. A samurai can see his/her opponents' auras with his own spiritual essence. That's why there are numerous cases of blind samurais beating multiple opponents. Because, as i said, a samurai starts with a katana but ends up being a complete weapon with his body.

As a sidenote, 1999 movie "The Matrix" has its main plot placed upon Samurai Cult. As Neo "has to learn to be himself" (Samurai) to beat the Unbeatables (Agents of Matrix).

#131

Scurrybt 10 mar, 2023 @ 22:24

Ursprungligen skrivet av ☎need4naiim☎:
Ursprungligen skrivet av Ulfrinn:
Good grief, it's obvious a lot of people here have watched way too much anime. Made apparent by imagining the Samurai guy being able to just walk up behind the knight and stabbing him in the back because, armor was "so heavy". The fact is Samurai armor, and knight armor of the 15th and 16th century weighed about the same, about 20-30kg. Yet the medieval armor provided way more protection, and didn't limit mobility like you see in movies.

Furthermore, European swords were much longer and more powerful for the same overall weight as a katana, giving them more reach, more speed, and they were generally better balanced too, and less prone to being bent out of shape due to far better materials used.

A sword that is lighter for it's length, better balanced, is going to have way better control making a multitude of attacks quicker to perform, and more accurate. Which is why people who practice HEMA based on centuries old European fighting manuals consistently beat the people who study Kendo/Kenjutsu in sparring.
Hahahahahaah!

When did i say that Samurai wins BECAUSE OF katana????

Samurai wins due to his/her spiritual excellence and using his WHOLE body as the weapon, not just a katana.

Of course, "people who practice HEMA based on centuries old European fighting manuals consistently beat the people who study Kendo/Kenjutsu in sparring".

Because they are not Samurais. Being a Samurai takes your life, body and soul. You may SUPPOSE that you are effectively using katana but you would be WAY WAAAY off the dicipline of a true Samurai. A Samurai does not fight with his katana, but his spiritual essence. A samurai can see his/her opponents' auras with his own spiritual essence. That's why there are numerous cases of blind samurais beating multiple opponents. Because, as i said, a samurai starts with a katana but ends up being a complete weapon with his body.

As a sidenote, 1999 movie "The Matrix" has its main plot placed upon Samurai Cult. As Neo "has to learn to be himself" (Samurai) to beat the Unbeatables (Agents of Matrix).

True, reminds me of Shaolin monks and their esoteric connection with Buddhism.

#132

steven1mac 10 mar, 2023 @ 22:41

Every culture who had professional warriors would of been trained in some form of martial arts, It doesn't matter if it was a knight, Mongol steppe warrior, a Saracen, warriors from China or India. It's true there isn't much written evidence in Europe, since most of it was purged in the later centuries to promote a more "civilized" culture.

No one can really say with any certainty who had the best form of martial arts, either armed or unarmed.

#133

spasti696969 10 mar, 2023 @ 23:26

Ursprungligen skrivet av ☎need4naiim☎:
When did i say that Samurai wins BECAUSE OF katana????

Samurai wins due to his/her spiritual excellence and using his WHOLE body as the weapon, not just a katana.

Knight has better armor and a wider selection of armor penetrating weapons to use which would be a huge advantage in the fight. But the Samurai apparently has some kind of anime power and can shoot energy balls like Goku.

#134

☎need4naiim☎ 10 mar, 2023 @ 23:55

Ursprungligen skrivet av spasti696969:
Ursprungligen skrivet av ☎need4naiim☎:
When did i say that Samurai wins BECAUSE OF katana????

Samurai wins due to his/her spiritual excellence and using his WHOLE body as the weapon, not just a katana.

Knight has better armor and a wider selection of armor penetrating weapons to use which would be a huge advantage in the fight. But the Samurai apparently has some kind of anime power and can shoot energy balls like Goku.

Those Knights were beaten by the armies of Seljuks, then Ottoman Army and even by the armies of Timur, (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Smyrna) who fought off Rhodes Knights.

I mean, you don't need energy balls, extremely sturdy armor nor The Elder God Raiden to beat European Knights. They were beaten numerous times by Turkic fighters.

I don't belittle Knights, i just brought some scrolls from History.

On the other hand, Samurais continued their cult until the advent of gatling guns into Japan. Which required Samurais to pull off this below feat to beat those machine guns:

https://tenor.com/view/neo-dodging-bullets-gif-24573779

And this: