Is eternal oblivion not really eternal if experience of it requires a conscious observer?

[Jerzyk-The-Boar-Warrior]

Whereas a dead person no longer possesses an observer so therefore no observer, no death to experience , except for it to be real to other people who observe you dead, but it isn't to you.

[Nekoborg]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jerzyk:

Is eternal oblivion not really eternal if experience of it requires a conscious observer?

Whereas a dead person no longer possesses an observer so therefore no observer, no death to experience , except for it to be real to other people who observe you dead, but it isn't to you.

but it isn't to you?

Prove it first else it would be a waste of time to contemplate the implications.

[LQIM]

Reality is perception. If you perceive an eternity of torture, but it's really only been one second, it's still an eternity of torture

[Jerzyk-The-Boar-Warrior]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nekoborg:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jerzyk:

Is eternal oblivion not really eternal if experience of it requires a conscious observer?

Whereas a dead person no longer possesses an observer so therefore no observer, no death to experience , except for it to be real to other people who observe you dead, but it isn't to you.

but it isn't to you?

Prove it first else it is a waste of time to contemplate the implications.

It's not to me anymore even though in the physical realm it is very real, except that not to me because the observer, consciousness, and the annihilation of all aspects of it means absence of experience, and in absence of experience, the state of death which is the only thing that can not be intepreted since death means absence of experience, and it can not in anyway be interpreted like the state of living.

[skOsH♥]

Wait...so in order to experience eternal nothingness you have to die with no one to witness? Otherwise they'll know you're dead and "collapse a wavefunction", sealing your fate and you die in oblivion as well?

Or am I not understanding...I feel like I am not understanding.

[Jerzyk-The-Boar-Warrior]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von IHTA:

Reality is perception. If you perceive an eternity of torture, but it's really only been one second, it's still an eternity of torture

It can no longer be to me because the 'me' is annihilated along with physical death, unless you're afterlife or reincarnation believer then yes, it can be very real in the earliest years of life in next reincarnation feeling something fishy but unable to explain to parents, you know.

[Knee]

OP how do know that you have no consciousness after death?

[Jerzyk-The-Boar-Warrior]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knee:

OP how do known that you have no consciousness after death?

Then how do you know if you have consciousness after death? There's one way to know, except that you won't if the answer is wrong.

[Knee]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jerzyk:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Knee:

OP how do known that you have no consciousness after death?

Then how do you know if you have consciousness after death? There's one way to know, except that you won't if the answer is wrong.

What? I’m not saying we do or don’t. You’re making the supposition, I’m asking what you’re basing it off of.

[Nekoborg]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jerzyk:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nekoborg:

but it isn't to you?

Prove it first else it is a waste of time to contemplate the implications.

It's not to me anymore even though in the physical realm it is very real, except that not to me because the observer, consciousness, and the annihilation of all aspects of it means absence of experience, and in absence of experience, the state of death which is the only thing that can not be intepreted since death means absence of experience, and it can not in anyway be interpreted like the state of living.

Talk to your doctor about this, he or she can refer you to a specialist that knows about these kind of things.

[Grynn]

You don't experience death. You are deleted form reality. You are literally nothing.

[Jerzyk-The-Boar-Warrior]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Grynn:

You don't experience death. You are deleted form reality. You are literally nothing.

You do experience the deletion process as you're flushed with massive doses of DMT throughout the brain and the body , giving you an experience just like you're experiencing life and it's length that to die will take as much time for your brain process as much it takes for you to reach age of 120 in this world.

[Grynn]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jerzyk:

...giving you an experience just like you're experiencing life and it's length that to die will take as much time for your brain process as much it takes for you to reach age of 120 in this world.

Proof?

I've seen people's heads completely obliterated by shotgun blasts before. Pretty sure theres no "deletion process" or DMT for them. Just instant nothingness.

[Jerzyk-The-Boar-Warrior]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Grynn:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jerzyk:

...giving you an experience just like you're experiencing life and it's length that to die will take as much time for your brain process as much it takes for you to reach age of 120 in this world.

Proof?

I've seen people's heads completely obliterated by shotgun blasts before. Pretty sure theres no "deletion process" or DMT for them. Just instant nothingness.

As well as nuclear explosions or death by drowning in 100 % acid.

[sotaponi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Jerzyk:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Grynn:

You don't experience death. You are deleted form reality. You are literally nothing.

You do experience the deletion process as you're flushed with massive doses of DMT throughout the brain and the body , giving you an experience just like you're experiencing life and it's length that to die will take as much time for your brain process as much it takes for you to reach age of 120 in this world.

Referencing DMT is kind of strange. You already have hormones letting you see phenomenal patterns even before said "deletion process," after all. Hence why you could just as well suppose that we already are dead. And since we see phenomenal patterns by virtue of the presence of psychoactive hormones in your *whatever*, it's all dragged out in form of our brains. At which point our galaxy itself might already be dead in a 4-dimensional sense, and is only dragging said death out with radioactive processes such as fusion in suns (or even black holes), causing the illusion of relative time-dilation. Which is kind of begging the question about what that even means. (It's a statement that really says nothing, despite giving off the appearance of doing so.)

Moreover, since you exist in the context of a spacetime (plausibly galaxy; timeline) amongst many - with said spacetime having some given mass and lightspeed - you're most likely quantified in at least 5 dimensions, with you arguing that your death is being dragged out in 4 dimensions. So you can't even be measured fully, in a local way, if there is the universally applied appearance of expansion between spacetimes, plausibly tied to black holes. And if the world is 6-dimensional simply because the big bang has to come from somewhere, with 5-dimensional universes (some number of spacetimes) existing in this 6d context, you're quantified in at least 6d... you should be. Even if, superficially measured, you believe yourself to be in a relative 5-dimensional context... you believe yourself as dragging out your death in 4 dimensions, due to the presence of psychoactive hormones in your (plausibly higher-dimensional) *whatever*.

But despite existing a 6-dimensional world, somehow, 5-dimensional universes (or 4-dimensional spacetimes) should merely be delaying their death? With said relativity ultimately just being an illusion. And then there's also the question of "realness." And you have to ask questions such as why different cortexes (senses) in your brain display different gravitational behaviour despite equal input, that is even before self-consciousness. Meaning that gravity is not equal to gravity. And colours are not equal to colours. And so on. The same would then surely hold true also for the universe itself.

It's kind of the same question as with how the big bang started, and with it phenomenal patterns, and the splitting of forces containing all sorts of dimensional and evolutionary implications, akin to a DNA of sorts. Which makes the OP a mind-body problem kind of question, that is said to be a hard problem. Also if you interpret quantum physics as reminiscent of a turn-based game. Then the mind first has to reveal the play before it is finalized. But how was the big bang played? A 6th dimension, whatever that is? E.g. ultimate reality? Some world beyond Plato's cave? Is there a demiurge? Etc. It's the "unmoved mover" kind of question. Which is again interesting if you acknowledge that you can't see the thing in itself, as dimensional measurements are always extremely superficial, that can be seen in the illusion of time-dilation. And even the big bang might be "relative." Just like your birth. Or death. Which might also involve dimensional relativity, even if it's an illusion. (Schrodinger's Cat and all that.)

A good start would be to define seemingly made-up ideas such as "death," from the bottom up. Else I might as well worry about evil archons hiding under my bed, and other paranoid fairy tales.

[Yarr]

None of us can ever experience eternal oblivion since we already exist now and will still do so in the past.

I agree that these 2 states are not really compatible as OP put it. From the point of view of the oblivious, there is no time, there is no eternity.