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Fordítási probléma jelentése
Hozzászólási szabályok és irányelvek
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It rather depends on what you think you are doing with those Rhinos. The whole point of transports is to transport troops safely and quickly. Quickly is out if you're plodding along behind cultists.
What's in those transports that's so important you don't want it getting shot at, but also are willing to take forever to get into battle? Common wisdom is that if you want troops who are just going to move 6" per turn anyway protected by a Rhino, you make the Rhino drive in front of them. That way, when the weak PoS blows up, it doesn't force a wound roll on every guy in there.
Next, what, precisely, do you think chaos cultists are going to block? Guardsmen? Hormogaunts? It had better not be much more powerful than that, because what's going to happen, even with a Nurgle Mark, is that enemy melee infantry will tear your cultists to shreds, they will break on their crap leadership, the enemy will make a sweeping advance and, win or lose, consolidate up to 6" bringing them that much closer and probably into close quarters with your Rhino, practically two assaults for the price of one.
If the enemy is just bringing infantry swarm trash, don't use cultists to deal with them, us ordinance, that's what it's for. The Rhino is faster than infantry (unless they have fleet and good rolls) becuase it can move flat out so just go around the problem if possible. Or blow holes in it with ordinance and drive through the gaps.
Or something. I just cannot imagine a scenario where it is okay to have a Rhino crawling behind cultists, it seems like ti has no advantages, but I don't know what you're trying to do or what army you're fighting so enlighten me.
Similiarly, the Daemon Prince should not need to be protected from trash swarms. Both he and the Rhino are large targets, so you're only going to be protected from melee. The Daemon Prince can fly, so melee with most anything you don't want melee with shouldn't be much of a problem.
Help me help you. Where are you going with this?
It helps. I've only got two troop choices as well, Space Marine Scouts and Space Marines. You can easily build and army that does or does not revolve around them, especially in 7th edition where you can use any units you want. I get the impression you're going off 6th edition rules, because Helldrakes are a lot less of a concern now, especially with cheap, deployable ack-ack emplacements.
Starting with your Dark Vengeance set, you've got a decent mix of troops for a 500-point army core you can take in many directions. You can go with a cultist mob, the Chaos equivalent of playing with Guardsmen, and then bank the rest of your points for heavy-hitters. Or with your Chosen you can go melee MEQ for your core, in which case Rhinos are a good idea. Maybe throw some Chaos Preds in there, too as an armored screen for the assault force.
The Helbrute.........well, opinons vary and you're probably better going with the advice of a CSM player, but I wouldn't use them. Their firepower is impressive, but their tendency to wreck your own **** with Rampage as they test for it every turn the WALK to mee the enemy. If you did go with that route, I'd use Obliterators and try to build a gun-line army.
Generally speaking, and if you don't have a preference between these three approaches, I'd say you're best-fitted for the melee CSM approach. Chaos does pretty damn well in melee, especially when coupled with Berserkers or Forsaken or something. Your Rhinos and Preds will have smoke launchers, use them as your screen from ranged attacks. Trash melee won't be a problem, you can just rip through them or drive around them.
Air IS going to be a problem, though, and nobody is going to fault you for bringing a couple of Heldrakes unless they just whine about everything. The other big concern would be Grav-guns, since they will **** up your bashy dudes. Rhinos help, but Chaos Land Raiders would be better and you CAN use cultists to screen Chosen and the like from those nightmares.
That's about all I've got based on what you've told me. I hope it helps (but not much because you are traitor filth) and please let me know if I can otherwise be of assistance.
Oh also you loyalist scum will fall. Your pathetic emporer is already crippled :D
Chosen are rather too expensive to field an army of, the enemy will beat you even if you win every combat just based on objectives and usually, overwhelming firepower. For a standard 1500-2000 point army you really only want two, maybe three units of elite melee infantry.
Their goal is to get into CC as quickly as possible against the best, most important targets they can find, preferably ones sitting on objectives. That alone takes half the game, and it is unlikely that the enemy will be able to assault or shoot them off an objective and then capture it before time runs out. Even tougher if you stick a Rhino betwen them and your squad. Even if they blow it up, it's still blocks LOS.
Cheaper Chaos melee specials like Berserkers or Forsaken (or is it Possessed Marines? I get confused between 40k and Fantasy) will help round out your force against MEQ (Marine Equivalent) armies that are everywhere. I wouldn't send my Space Marines into battle with berserkers, I'd send an Ironclad Dreadnought if I had one to spare. Better to avoid them altogether, they slow us down and we'll probably lose in melee.
Back those guys up with some good armor or arty, plus your Drakes, and you've got a decent all-around force that CAN deal with MEQ. 10 Berserkers attack 30 times are going to be three times more effective than 10 Space Marines attacking ten times. Maybe they just pin them down so the Chosen or Chaos Termies can slice them up with power weapons.
Whatever, it works, and since roughly two thirds of the enemies you face will be MEQ, and probably two thirds again are Space Marines, you can rely on this approach for decent results.
I only ask that you remember to exclude me from the legions of wanna-bes who play Space Marines because they think that's the coolest army. As an actual Marine, I HAVE to play Space Marines. Otherwise it would not be classy at all and almost like breaking an oath. I know you don't understand that, heretic wretch, but it's a thing and if you get on my bad side I will crush your balls with my Iron Hands.
Also when charging wouldn't they have 4 attacks? (1 normally, 1 for CCW and 2 for rage).
Also I might take a couple of predators or something with good range and strong weapons to take out stuff like dreadnoughts (like a counter to your counter), a couple squads of cultists, a heldrake, then some HQ (might go for a bog-standered Lord, not really interested in the fancy special-name lords, deamon prince sounds fun, also like the idea of a sorceror but he feels more like a side HQ, actually I have a different guy that I forgot the name of and isn't in the code, 65 points might be worth it, I have gone way to far into something again haven't I..)
Don't worry, I can understand your need to be a loyalist, I mean how else are the blind gonna get guidance? I will never cease to be amazed at how you just follow a crippled man, well I guess loyalists have to follow without question.
I don't know the points costs for chain-axes so I really can't say. If they're cheap I would take them, it denies Eldar, IG, Tau, and most small Tyranids an armor save they will make 50% of the time, doubling your wounds.
Likewise I guess they might have 4 attacks, I don't remember, I just know that I should never let Berserkers get in melee range because my opponent rolls a boat-load of dice and it never ends well for me unless I throw something he can't hurt at them. Even then, I prefer Ironclads because there's usually a champion with a powerfist or a chainfist in there.
As for the rest, go with what suits you and what fits your army. If it's a Khorne army it won't have sorcerers anyway. Just make sure you have something for every threat and a back-up in case that gets destroyed. For instance, I use two Stormravens for AA and I've got Flakk missiles if I need them. You won't be strong everywhere, he who tries to defend everything defends nothing, but you can be strong enough in one or two areas while being a threat in all others. After that it's luck and skill.
Now, I realize you heretics have turned away fromthe Emperor's Light and you like to make fun of him as a corpse-god, but who is your leader? An emo tosser with a silly top-knot named Failbaddon the Harmless. Clearly, you are the blind ones.
It only costs 3 points a unit. I might just forget them because strength is the same and while it's usefull against stuff like orc it is useless against entire armies like you loyalists, the best thing to do would be to get one set with chain axes and one without but that is just way too expenive.
We fight for the thrill, the gods only give us help. The more I am mowing down loyalists the more happy I am.
The "gods" of Chaos give you no help, little one, they are merely the relfections of sentient beings in the Warp, and they will drive you mad as surely as Chaos creates madness. The Great "Truth" you and your ilk propose to "enlighten" everyone with is that humans cannot truly know themselves save by sin, thus Chaos is inevitable.
The real truth is that Faith saves us all from our bestial nature. Faith in humanity, Faith in our purpose, Faith in the betterment of mankind no matter what faces it. We may be brutal, savage, even self-destructive at times, but from such struggle we have only ever produced greater things. To fear such a nature is redundant, to hate it, heretical and weak.
And on that note, I suggest a modular Army list. Most players will be more than happy to play house rules where you don't actually have to model a chain-axe or whatever to a Berserker in order for it to count as a chain axe. Everyone who plays this game knows how devastatingly expensive it is. Unless you're in a GW tournament, it's not going to matter.
A modular army list just includes one or two units you want that can be substitued for something specialized of equivalent or similar points value on the fly. House rules will almost always accept this, since it is expected that you will at least know who you are figthing against. A few neckbeards and pizza-faced teens who really wanted to play cheese ansd swap armies won't have it, but then they are the kind you don't want to play against anyway.
Just get someone who with experience knows their cheese to kick their a$$, or counter it with your own modular army once it has grown large enough. Trust me, these guys never look to the future, they are too focused on abusing strategies right now, and are desperate for a win because they suck at everything else. Naturally, cheese is the first thing to show up on the internet.
Really, the only way you can lose, since you KNOW what tactics they are going to run, is for them to out-spend you, which they can with a half-painted amalgamation of whatever is the fad at the time. Even then, you win because people respect a carefully crafted and painted army more than garbage. They also respond well to polite and fun-oriented gamers who don't get butt-hurt.
Lose a battle, win the war. I almost hate to say it because I can't speak for every GW store, I'm sure some employees are just a-holes like some claim, but personally, I have never had this go wrong at local store event:
Show up with an army you at least TRIED to paint and assemble properly, play it in character, agree to roll-offs where there are any rules disputes, and have fun joking with people, no matter how lame their jokes are. I have gamed with squeakers who think fart jokes are funny, at least try to look slightly amused, don't start a fight, and maybe try to help some newer gamers.
You do that, and you are in the running for the GW employeees to offer you free parts. After all, they want to attract people to the game and the store. If you can do that, they will unofficially pay to keep you around. I built my first Dreadnought company this way, since the stock models only came with assault cannons or lascannons and not Multi-Meltas for Deep-Strike Insertions. Read that as what it sounds like if you wish, it matters not.
And you were saying something about the gods of Chaos giving you help? ;)
Wow, what a ****-head. He knows perfectly well that the odds of you ever killing that with the troops you have now are basically nil. Even if you had all the troops you wanted, it is still not acceptable to deploy a super-heavy like that unless you are in a tournament which permits such units or your opponent consents.
I'd find a new club, or failing that, find a friend who is more experienced and bring them to your club to give them a what-for. No club worth its salt insists on accurately modeling everything whilst permitting one of the fairy-folk to use a thrice-damned titan against a new player.
But seriously, who the hell finds it entertaining to spam the most broken units in a game like this? I like to play as the "worst" factions because I have to work harder for a victory and it feel better when I get it (which is still waiting to happen XD)
However my freind is getting a starter army for his birthday which isn't far away, while I keep telling him to get a codex before deciding what to get I am pretty sure he will be a lot of fun to play with as he seems quite chill about what we use.
To be fair some of the stuff that happens there is real stupid, we were doing a tournement where we could have one un-named unit, while it was just a bit of casual fun it really wasn't fair putting a normal Chaos Lord with power armour, a plasma pistol and a power sword near a Tau battlesuit and some necron which wouldn't take any damage at all :l
Lots of people who suck. Be glad you weren't around for 5th-ed Eldar holo-fields or the Tau "Fish of Fury." You'll still run into people exploiting broken stuff, especially Blood Angels. They are broken in every edition because GW has a hard-on for Blood Angels. Even my own Iron Hands had a broken character for a while, Chapter Master Smash****er. Look him up, it's hilarious.
That said, I salute your decision to play an army that will give you a challenge. Such players are usually the most fun to game with, and they often end up being the best tacticians. After all, they never relied on cheese.
I hope you and your friend get to have fun and get some good practice in while you're at it. Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.