Rings of Power and toxic Tolkien fandom.

[Apexnexius]

I'm so sad seeing the Lord of the Rings Tolkien community now turning Tolkien into a toxic fandom.
So many Tolkien fans are now showing their true colors.

The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit and Silmarillion is for everyone, not just for some people.
..Middle-earth is also for women, people of color, non binary, transgender LGBTQ and other communities.

We should all support Amazon's new show Rings of Power.
Tall proud dark and/or black people in Númenor is not dangerous to Tolkien's work. It actually enriches the lore.

Again, we should all support Rings of Power and be more positive to each other.
I'm sure both J. R. R. Tolkien and Christopher Tolkien wanted it this way.


Friday 22nd of July Edit:

New The Rings of Power - SDCC Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYnQDsaxHZU


Edit 2:
On the behalf of the whole community I would like to thank everyone who has come to the defense of Amazon's decision to make Lord of the Rings more inclusive.
And it is needed !

Messaggio originale di MistyMountainHop:

So Sauron is an edgy twink Eminem.

Forget it. I'm out.

Just look at the horrendous comment above from this person.
Twink is a derogatory slur against queers. Read the lore in Silmarillion. Sauron had many shapes throughout the ages in MIddle-earth.

Tolkien was never about normative feelings. Just look at Frodo and Sam.
And Gandalf, played by Ian McKellen, is actually gay.
Please do not feel threatened by change.

J. R. R. Tolkien's universe is in good hands.



August 7th Super Edit:
@The Quartering, jeremo (at 6:53 in his/her video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp5OS1JE-Y4
Gandalf the Grey has 'de facto' cheerful gay happy feelings towards Hobbits, read the books for god's sake !
Also, Gandalf actually transitions several times (according to Tolkien lore).
One of the many times he transitioned, Gandalf transitioned from Gandalf the Grey to Gandalf the White. Tolkien is all about change and transitioning.
J. R. R. Tolkien went through World War 1 and came out as a different man. A changed man.

Amazon is doing the right thing here. It's all fabulous.



Edit 4:
If Gollum were to suddenly jump up from the river, sword in hand, landing on Elrond's ship while screaming..
" ..It's Tolkien Time precious ! "

That would be completely fine. You see, we are actually tolerant Tolkien fans.



Edit August 10th:
This was the most fun Steam Off Topic has ever been.
I'm leaving this thread open for those of you still interested in discussing Amazon's Rings of Power.
But I'm gonna have to unsubscribe. I lost interest early on, the very moment Amazon announced that they were involved.

If we are all wrong and it turns out the show is exciting (I highly doubt it) then I might start a subscription to Amazon Prime.

That's it !
Time to buy some Steam PC Games. Europa Universalis 4 here I come !

Game On dweebs !



-This thread is $150.000 dollar college degree certified-

[Groogo]

Messaggio originale di Apexnexius:

Many people are not really present in their own lives.

Enlightened citizens do not feel threatened by race and gender switching. These changes is actually a good sign of 'the maturity of a work' an strengthens the appeal and its importance.

Bssky

[AdahnGorion]

Messaggio originale di Apexnexius:

Many people are not really present in their own lives. Many geeks use fandom as a surrogate to to cope. It is not healthy being that way.

William Shakespeare wrote Othello. If geeks knew about that many of them would get confused.
And if they knew how many classic plays that has people of color instead of the original white protagonist they would not be able to function properly, but alas they live their lives in ignorance.
By the way Othello is originally black.

Enlightened citizens do not feel threatened by race and gender switching. These changes is actually a good sign of 'the maturity of a work' and strengthens the appeal and its importance.

I think that is a pretty discriminative take on other people.
By your argument everybody is not present in their own lives, because everybody is a fan of something (it is called having a hobby)

Enlighted people do not label people with "race labels" that are a leftover from the imperialistic age, they instead see everybody as equal humans and focus on their personality.. I don´t care about however a person looks or their gender.. I care about their actions.

[Apexnexius]

You are kicking in open doors here Darkie

[AdahnGorion]

Messaggio originale di Apexnexius:

You are kicking in open doors here Darkie

No I am not.
I am merely showing a way out of the cave.. it is so dark in that cave

[Apexnexius]

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

Messaggio originale di Apexnexius:

You are kicking in open doors here Darkie

No I am not.
I am merely showing a way out of the cave.. it is so dark in that cave

I like your username kiddo

[AdahnGorion]

Messaggio originale di Apexnexius:

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

No I am not.
I am merely showing a way out of the cave.. it is so dark in that cave

I like your username kiddo

:dealwithit:

Why do you start making personal attacks?
I have been on steam for 18 years (soon 19 years).....

Thank you for letting me know, that you like my username, I don´t really see why that is relevant to the debate however.

[The Commendatore]

Oh, jeez. This is still going?

[AdahnGorion]

Messaggio originale di Apexnexius:

Many people are not really present in their own lives. Many geeks use fandom as a surrogate to to cope. It is not healthy being that way.

Enlightened citizens do not feel threatened by race and gender switching. These changes is actually a good sign of 'the maturity of a work' and strengthens the appeal and its importance.

Nobody (for many pages) have said they care about "race" and "gender" infact I see the opposite. Some people do not like lore changes ofc.. Like I said, Silver Surfer, would kinda be ruined for me, if he was turned in to a yellow surfer and keept the silver surfer name..

It all depends on context and belieability. I am yet to see huge issues in RoP, outside maybe Galadriel in armour and being a legendary warrior.. but that is not a reimagination, that would ruin the show for me atleast, but I understand why some would feel that way...


At the end of the day, it just seems like you attack people, whenever you disagree with them, rather than actually take the debate.. when I posted stuff you liked, you awarded me and even used my quotes to agree....

The world is most likely not black&white (we can never be fully certain) but instead green with envy.

[TristanMike]

I bought the books when I was in the fifth grade, bought all the special editions of all the Peter Jackson films (LOTR and the Hobbit), I own a series of The Hobbit collector cards, I have statues, posters and other bits from the LOTR franchise.

I won't give this WOKE nonsense a second of my time. I am so disappointed in Amazon.

[Holografix]

Cinema, film, even streaming shows have their own visual language. That's why there's Film Studies and Cinema Critique. It's it own language.

The worst part about these reactionary youtuber rants is that people ape their opinions and think that it is real criticism or proper analysis. Darkie mentioned that people here are making cogent arguments about the lore and how Rings of Power fails to match it perfectly, and I don't think it's a valid argument at all. An adaptation is it's own thing, the visual medium has a different language than text/words and there are things that cannot translate from print to screen.

1000+ posts later and no-one has offered a proper critique or criticism of Rings of Power based on it's imaginary and imagery. People are aping manufactured youtuber outrage which is not at all based on film criticism but MODERN DAY POLITICAL OPINIONS about who they think deserves social justice.

Believe it or not, but people arguing about race or gender swapping in Rings of Power are nothing but SJW's.

[Groogo]

Messaggio originale di TristanMike:

I bought the books when I was in the fifth grade, bought all the special editions of all the Peter Jackson films (LOTR and the Hobbit), I own a series of The Hobbit collector cards, I have statues, posters and other bits from the LOTR franchise.

I won't give this WOKE nonsense a second of my time. I am so disappointed in Amazon.

/same here

[AdahnGorion]

Messaggio originale di Holografix:

Cinema, film, even streaming shows have their own visual language. That's why there's Film Studies and Cinema Critique. It's it own language.

The worst part about these reactionary youtuber rants is that people ape their opinions and think that it is real criticism or proper analysis. Darkie mentioned that people here are making cogent arguments about the lore and how Rings of Power fails to match it perfectly, and I don't think it's a valid argument at all. An adaptation is it's own thing, the visual medium has a different language than text/words and there are things that cannot translate from print to screen.

1000+ posts later and no-one has offered a proper critique or criticism of Rings of Power based on it's imaginary and imagery. People are aping manufactured youtuber outrage which is not at all based on film criticism but MODERN DAY POLITICAL OPINIONS about who they think deserves social justice.

Believe it or not, but people arguing about race or gender swapping in Rings of Power are nothing but SJW's.

I said, I can understand their viewpoints, not that I agree with it.
It is all about belieability and logics.

If those things are there, then you can swap and change whatever you want too almost (to a degree) that debate has nothing to do with the problematic "ethnicity" debate that is also going on or "gender" debate.

As I said.
People always have a choice, nobody is forcing them to watch this adaption (yes its a adaption, not a direct portrayal) that we actually agree on.

Everything is biased by politics however, that is nothing new.. people just have to either accept that or find something that suits their bias.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Messaggio originale di Holografix:

Cinema, film, even streaming shows have their own visual language. That's why there's Film Studies and Cinema Critique. It's it own language.

The worst part about these reactionary youtuber rants is that people ape their opinions and think that it is real criticism or proper analysis. Darkie mentioned that people here are making cogent arguments about the lore and how Rings of Power fails to match it perfectly, and I don't think it's a valid argument at all. An adaptation is it's own thing, the visual medium has a different language than text/words and there are things that cannot translate from print to screen.

1000+ posts later and no-one has offered a proper critique or criticism of Rings of Power based on it's imaginary and imagery. People are aping manufactured youtuber outrage which is not at all based on film criticism but MODERN DAY POLITICAL OPINIONS about who they think deserves social justice.

Believe it or not, but people arguing about race or gender swapping in Rings of Power are nothing but SJW's.

Yes, it's an adapatation. THAT MEANS IT'S USING SOMEONE ELSES NAME YOU DISMISSIVE PRICK. If I steal you're name and work I -do not- get to just ignore everything you've done and how you do it to just go make my own thing while using your name. When you use someone else's name, someone else's story, you lose the freedom to tell your own story. You have to respect and stay true to the experience you're ADAPTING. That's what it means to steal someone name. It's why Blade runner didn't call itself Do Android Dream of Electric Sheep, it's not an adaptation just like the broad story. Same with who Framed Roger Rabbit(Who Censored Roger Rabbit. Yes, it's based off a book). But Rings of power is calling itself LOTR, it's using someone else's name, you can't just declare it can ignore everything.

tl;dr: If you want to tell your own story, tell your own story. Don't take someone else's story and try to turn it into your story, your dismissive hack.

And sir, peopl;e have a problem that the woman playing the Dwarf is both too large(she lacks the muscle definition of Dwarves) and has no beard. The reason it became about her sex is because -SHE- centered i on her sex and demanded it's totally special because "im a woman guys" and people then attacked -that-. These are, by the way, two DIFFERENT criticisms, that Amazon is so lazy they let their DWARF without a beard, and then let the actor play the ghostbuster's defense.

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

Messaggio originale di Holografix:

As I said.
People always have a choice, nobody is forcing them to watch this adaption (yes its a adaption, not a direct portrayal) that we actually agree on.

Everything is biased by politics however, that is nothing new.. people just have to either accept that or find something that suits their bias.

That's an adaptation is, a direct portrayal of a source material. Being based off or inspired by something, a re-IMAGINING is not an adaptation. An adaptation takes thing A, and puts it directly into medium B. When you steal someone else's name, you don't get to just tell you're own story.

And no: Art is nothing mroe than an experience to be shared between eachother and socialized over. It is not some essay nor is it even remotely "political." A story which tries to lecture the viewer with morality that has nothing to do with the story just to spew some politics, is called badly written.

[Your_White_Knight]

Messaggio originale di Holografix:

Cinema, film, even streaming shows have their own visual language. That's why there's Film Studies and Cinema Critique. It's it own language.

The worst part about these reactionary youtuber rants is that people ape their opinions and think that it is real criticism or proper analysis. Darkie mentioned that people here are making cogent arguments about the lore and how Rings of Power fails to match it perfectly, and I don't think it's a valid argument at all. An adaptation is it's own thing, the visual medium has a different language than text/words and there are things that cannot translate from print to screen.

1000+ posts later and no-one has offered a proper critique or criticism of Rings of Power based on it's imaginary and imagery. People are aping manufactured youtuber outrage which is not at all based on film criticism but MODERN DAY POLITICAL OPINIONS about who they think deserves social justice.

Believe it or not, but people arguing about race or gender swapping in Rings of Power are nothing but SJW's.

When the show was made for MODERN DAY POLITICAL OPINIONS one can only criticize the modern day political opinions on it... it was, is now, and will ever be a modern day political opinions stunt... there's noting more to criticize about it.

Your problem with YouTube videos about it is you can't shout it down, block it, but more to the point it reaches more people then your bias opinions ever could... so you try to dismiss them.

For us who don't have all day going back and forth over the same empty topics you want to think are "deep" and "important"... the shallow modern day political opinion show called "Rings of Power" are none of the above...

Interesting enough... people on YouTube who criticize the show aren't all white men, they are people of all races and women... the people you claim to be championing the show nobody wanted or needed.

https://youtu.be/xdDJ2fC0aO0

But please keep on posting like you're the be all end all of opinions on this terrible and horrible show... but it doesn't change the fact that it ~ IS ~ a terrible and horrible MODERN DAY POLITICAL OPINIONS piece and not a show about Tolkien nor about Tolkien's works.

[Lora Grim]

I will turn peoples disdain of this new thing into popcorn and then eat it while watching the old lotr stuff.
I don't like new stuff that deviate from the source material either, like the disney star wars for example, but i don't super care either since the old stuff is... fine. It's still all there.

No sense in popping a blood vessel over an act that basically amounts to somebody writing a garbage fanfic based on something you both like.