Rings of Power and toxic Tolkien fandom.

[Apexnexius]

I'm so sad seeing the Lord of the Rings Tolkien community now turning Tolkien into a toxic fandom.
So many Tolkien fans are now showing their true colors.

The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit and Silmarillion is for everyone, not just for some people.
..Middle-earth is also for women, people of color, non binary, transgender LGBTQ and other communities.

We should all support Amazon's new show Rings of Power.
Tall proud dark and/or black people in Númenor is not dangerous to Tolkien's work. It actually enriches the lore.

Again, we should all support Rings of Power and be more positive to each other.
I'm sure both J. R. R. Tolkien and Christopher Tolkien wanted it this way.


Friday 22nd of July Edit:

New The Rings of Power - SDCC Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYnQDsaxHZU


Edit 2:
On the behalf of the whole community I would like to thank everyone who has come to the defense of Amazon's decision to make Lord of the Rings more inclusive.
And it is needed !

Oprindeligt skrevet af MistyMountainHop:

So Sauron is an edgy twink Eminem.

Forget it. I'm out.

Just look at the horrendous comment above from this person.
Twink is a derogatory slur against queers. Read the lore in Silmarillion. Sauron had many shapes throughout the ages in MIddle-earth.

Tolkien was never about normative feelings. Just look at Frodo and Sam.
And Gandalf, played by Ian McKellen, is actually gay.
Please do not feel threatened by change.

J. R. R. Tolkien's universe is in good hands.



August 7th Super Edit:
@The Quartering, jeremo (at 6:53 in his/her video below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp5OS1JE-Y4
Gandalf the Grey has 'de facto' cheerful gay happy feelings towards Hobbits, read the books for god's sake !
Also, Gandalf actually transitions several times (according to Tolkien lore).
One of the many times he transitioned, Gandalf transitioned from Gandalf the Grey to Gandalf the White. Tolkien is all about change and transitioning.
J. R. R. Tolkien went through World War 1 and came out as a different man. A changed man.

Amazon is doing the right thing here. It's all fabulous.



Edit 4:
If Gollum were to suddenly jump up from the river, sword in hand, landing on Elrond's ship while screaming..
" ..It's Tolkien Time precious ! "

That would be completely fine. You see, we are actually tolerant Tolkien fans.



Edit August 10th:
This was the most fun Steam Off Topic has ever been.
I'm leaving this thread open for those of you still interested in discussing Amazon's Rings of Power.
But I'm gonna have to unsubscribe. I lost interest early on, the very moment Amazon announced that they were involved.

If we are all wrong and it turns out the show is exciting (I highly doubt it) then I might start a subscription to Amazon Prime.

That's it !
Time to buy some Steam PC Games. Europa Universalis 4 here I come !

Game On dweebs !



-This thread is $150.000 dollar college degree certified-

[Your_White_Knight]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Traror:

Also, we can change whatever we want?

Then i want Batman to be a green leprechaun that drinks gives out gold and says how evil English people are, and protestants.

And has no other personality traits or characterization whatsoever.

If you don't watch that, you're a racist.

Oh they'll say it's fine to do that... because they have to in order not to look like the hypocrites they are...

[ChaffyExpert]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Your_White_Knight:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Traror:

Also, we can change whatever we want?

Then i want Batman to be a green leprechaun that drinks gives out gold and says how evil English people are, and protestants.

And has no other personality traits or characterization whatsoever.

If you don't watch that, you're a racist.

Oh they'll say it's fine to do that... because they have to in order not to look like the hypocrites they are...

Ya, but everyone that's not literally insane sees the point, and the satire.

[Holografix]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Your_White_Knight:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Traror:

OP is saying not watching the show is "toxic" and that they are "toxic fans"

Also, not only do we have a right to complain, we should complain, the LGBTQ+ agenda is in everything, and people are sick of being force fed ♥♥♥♥. It's about time we speak out, boycott, and fight them with everything we got.

Agree... when people ~don't~ watch the show and it fails... those people still claim "your toxic" because we didn't watch and support the show... so the only answer is watch the show and like it?

No.

The delusion is astounding...

I'm of the opinion that people spewing toxicity are not real fans, so no hypocrisy or inconsistency in my argument.

[AdahnGorion]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Apexnexius:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Traror:

Also, we can change whatever we want?

Then i want Batman to be a green leprechaun that drinks gives out gold and says how evil English people are, and protestants.

And has no other personality traits whatsoever.

If you don't watch that, you're a racist.

That would have to be put in the 2nd season.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Apexnexius:

I like that idea !

The first season script belongs to @Darkie

On a serious note.

I actually wrote "many many many pages back" how one could make both original lore applicable and still meet network rules of diversity etc and American laws, with simple things..

A (side story) within the greater scheme about a moriquendi. Lets make her a female and lets set her on a journey to not just learn about herself and her ancestry, but also the issues of her living among "regular" elves...

In the end, she ofc proves herself and the others, by saving the day, but the saving comes with harsh sacrifice.



My point here is, that the lore is there, to make whatever you want, but instead, its all about showcasing numbers (see we have x amount of males, that have a big nose) or see we have y amount of females, that have a pointy pinky......

When it should always be about the "characters" and their "background" and story. There is so much upperturnity.. but instead its cooked down into American politics on TV (I as an European, just shake my head about it) its foreign to me in every way.

The most important thing is belieablity.. Do we think the character, setting, story, etc. is belieable in its context? if yes.. then its awesome, No matter the sex, age, physical attributes, the person playing the character have or the character itself (again as long its belieable)


Is green smurfs belieable, from the original lore? no. they are not, would they work as a spinoff with another name? yes.. or could you make it logical? The smurfs are transformed into their new greenish look, due to a curse from Gargamel.



Believablity...

[AdahnGorion]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Gus the Crocodile:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Darkie:

By that argument, we could change just about anything and people should not complain

No, I said fiction is changeable. I didn’t say anything about people not being able to complain.

But then you are alright with people complaining about this and think its valid.
That is atleast the argument you are presenting here.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Traror:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Gus the Crocodile:

No, I said fiction is changeable. I didn’t say anything about people not being able to complain.

Well you're obviously left-winging, and people on the left think nobody has a right to an opinion that disagrees with what they think, so it's kinda assumed.

Lets not bring "simplistic" left-right politics into this debate... and let alone American ones...
By your standards, I would be a crazed neo communist, on the far far far far (out of boundary) left wing, in my political life. (as in actual real life political life)


Lucky enough. Politics is not that shallow.

[ChaffyExpert]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Holografix:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Your_White_Knight:

Agree... when people ~don't~ watch the show and it fails... those people still claim "your toxic" because we didn't watch and support the show... so the only answer is watch the show and like it?

No.

The delusion is astounding...

I'm of the opinion that people spewing toxicity are not real fans, so no hypocrisy or inconsistency in my argument.

You think it's toxic though, to be aginast the agenda pushing...

[ChaffyExpert]

There shouldn't be any laws regarding characters, and "diversity qoutas"

Like, i hope the book i'm writing isn't illegal because it doesn't have enough dudes kissing other dudes or something. I can totally see that, even though, i thought free speech was a thing.

[Your_White_Knight]

Oprindeligt skrevet af DasWulf:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Your_White_Knight:

It's not a "Hot Take" if you can't handle the truth... ~your~ dream world doesn't affect everyone.

It was meant to be an agreement. Took hot take literally, as in "this comment is lit". Apparently now I know it means unpopular opinions meant to cause controversy. My bad. =)

On topic: No fan should accept ideological subversion and exploitation of franchises they are deeply tied to. To attempt to shame them for taking a position against the subversion, is nothing more than blatant and overt attempts at emotional manipulation. That itself is toxic, as it seeks to smear them by reducing their social capital in the eyes of others.

Toxic is another way of insinuating poison, and subversion of said franchise is just that.

lol... ahhh... o.k. then

Exactly...

If any company replaced their favorite thing with something else they would be the first to complain... our entertainment, even fiction or fantasy, is no exception nor is there a acceptable replacement.

They need to take their own medicine... if you don't like the original... don't watch, don't be a fan.

Make your own... and then realize when nobody follows that they're not a fan of your idea of "acceptable changes".

The only reason they subvert what is... is because they can't make anything original and GOOD themselves... so they need to ruin what is out of pure spite and nothing else.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Darkie:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Gus the Crocodile:

No, I said fiction is changeable. I didn’t say anything about people not being able to complain.

But then you are alright with people complaining about this and think its valid.
That is atleast the argument you are presenting here.

No, this is an argument you are presenting, about me. I have said nothing of the sort.

[Your_White_Knight]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Traror:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Your_White_Knight:

Oh they'll say it's fine to do that... because they have to in order not to look like the hypocrites they are...

Ya, but everyone that's not literally insane sees the point, and the satire.

Well more to the point... the show IS a tipping point.. we've already seen what happened to "Batgirl" show... if this "LOTR" fanfiction show fails then it could domino and all the changing of franchises fails... and they can't have that.

[AdahnGorion]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Gus the Crocodile:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Darkie:

But then you are alright with people complaining about this and think its valid.
That is atleast the argument you are presenting here.

No, this is an argument you are presenting, about me. I have said nothing of the sort.

But what is your argument then? please enlighten us?
Do you think it is ok to change every fictional thing? No matter how ofc?

[ChaffyExpert]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Your_White_Knight:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Traror:

Ya, but everyone that's not literally insane sees the point, and the satire.

Well more to the point... the show IS a tipping point.. we've already seen what happened to "Batgirl" show... if this "LOTR" fanfiction show fails then it could domino and all the changing of franchises fails... and they can't have that.

Interestingly makes me think of the USSR, and how one group of people rising up caused the whole thing to collapse.

Probably just a coincidence.

[Ⓥenom Ⓢnake 🐍]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Your_White_Knight:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Ⓥenom Ⓢnake 🐍:

Yes, actually. If the actor could pull off the role, fine with it.

You got a problem?

Riiiiiiight... :lunar2019laughingpig:

Ho ho.

I loved Idris Elba in The Dark Tower.

Because he was an outstanding actor.

I accepted Sam Jackson as Nick Fury, same reason.

I watch a film based on performances.

Do you really hold ideas over interpretation?

You miss out on a lot if you do.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Darkie:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Gus the Crocodile:

No, this is an argument you are presenting, about me. I have said nothing of the sort.

But what is your argument then? please enlighten us?
Do you think it is ok to change every fictional thing? No matter how ofc?

Better Than You said that people don't get to change stories just because it satisfies their ego. I replied saying that it's just fiction, of course people get to change it. That's it.

There was no argument being made about whether or not any particular changes are "okay".

[AdahnGorion]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Gus the Crocodile:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Darkie:

But what is your argument then? please enlighten us?
Do you think it is ok to change every fictional thing? No matter how ofc?

Better Than You said that people don't get to change stories just because it satisfies their ego. I replied saying that it's just fiction, of course people get to change it. That's it.

There was no argument being made about whether or not any particular changes are "okay".

I have never said that.
People can change whatever they want if you ask me.

This is just an personal attack, because you can´t counter or don´t want to showcase how you feel, that is perfectly alright my crocodile friend.
But with your posting above, I will take that as a "yes" you can change any art, as you want, if its fiction.

The thing is... everybody is biased, so someone would surely say "no that you can´t do"



Either, its ok to change everything, how you see fit or its regulated, you can´t have the "it is ok if I think so" attitude, becuase that is invalid as a logical argument atleast.