Why is π accepted?

[Irene ❤]

Basically, people in 18XX found out that a circle's diameter to circumference has a ratio of 22:7.
They invented π and said that it's the correct way to measure a circle, and everybody followed that rule till this day.

They were never accurate.
π is an irrational number. It is never ending and it's not real. Meaning the calculations you get are 'quite close' but it is NEVER the right answer.

Example : I make a simple 20cm2 area square cake. If I melt that cake and change it into a circle shape, using π I will get 19.998476286...which is a wrong measurement. Every digit behind it is wrong. It gives an infinite amount of wrong digits. 19.9 < 20

Why are people accepting π without knowing it's wrong? People have blindly follow the wrongs in 18XX?

[kbiz]

Początkowo opublikowane przez KyokoKirigireeee🎃:

maybe infinty doesnt exist

Infinity is just a concept. There are infinite numbers between 0 and 1.

Also, nicely done Devsman. You're not just a pretty face.

[Devsman]

Początkowo opublikowane przez kbiz:

Początkowo opublikowane przez KyokoKirigireeee🎃:

maybe infinty doesnt exist

Infinity is just a concept. There are infinite numbers between 0 and 1.

Also, nicely done Devsman. You're not just a pretty face.

lol

I may have struggled through the most basic of history classes but I soaked up math like a sponge.

I almost got a minor in it in college. I was only two credit hours off. But I ran out of electives and didn't care to do extra coursework, lol.

[AdahnGorion]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hogarth:

Why is it wrong, do you not believe in math?

Math is a lot like religion, you have to believe in a lot of stuff, that contradict eachother and logically does not make sense.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Irene ❤:

Basically, people in 18XX found out that a circle's diameter to circumference has a ratio of 22:7.
They invented π and said that it's the correct way to measure a circle, and everybody followed that rule till this day.

They were never accurate.
π is an irrational number. It is never ending and it's not real. Meaning the calculations you get are 'quite close' but it is NEVER the right answer.

Example : I make a simple 20cm2 area square cake. If I melt that cake and change it into a circle shape, using π I will get 19.998476286...which is a wrong measurement. Every digit behind it is wrong. It gives an infinite amount of wrong digits. 19.9 < 20

Why are people accepting π without knowing it's wrong? People have blindly follow the wrongs in 18XX? :ujel:

pi is an irrational number with infinite decimals but an ecact defenition : the number. of times the diagonal of any circle fits in its circumference.
22÷7 is not the right answer for that but a very inaccurate aproximation.
we now have a better aproximation.
just as the 3.14159 I use in most calculations is an aproximation.

but here comes the scientiffic beauty ALL numbers are aproximations.
-all numbers have a scientiffuc accuracy.

1 kilo of something is not the same as 1.000 kilo.
-1 kilo is between 0.51 kilo and 1.49 kilo or between
1.000 kilo is between 0.99950 kilo and 1.00049 kilo
**
10 has 2 proven numbers.
1.000 has 4 proven numbers.
-scientificly 10x10 = 1.0×10^2 not 100.
**when you calculate with multiple measured numbers your result is only as accurate as your lowest proven scientiffic number of numbers.
you round your result to that number. by wroting your answer as an x.x *10^x
159x 1 kilo is not 150 kilo.
but 2*10^2 kilo.
(1.50 gets rounded to 2 simce 50 gets rounded to the nearest even number, 49 to below and 51 up.
2.509999 still would get rounded to 2 if your least accurate measurement is only 1 number long.

so to get a correct result within your measurements.. use pi with at least 2 more decimals as you lowest accurate number is long and your result is fine.

for the crude things greeks did build 22/7 worked.. for our much more accurate measurements we also need a much more precise aproximation of pi.

your example pizza would just get rounded to 20cm2 as I really doupt you have measured its radius with more than 2 decimals.

and schientifficly and by law that allows a margin of error you advertise 20cm2 but it can be anything betweem 19.50cm2 - 20.49cm2

[kbiz]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Darkie:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hogarth:

Why is it wrong, do you not believe in math?

Math is a lot like religion, you have to believe in a lot of stuff, that contradict eachother and logically does not make sense.

Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place. -Gandhi

Best religion EVAR!

[kbiz]

Love to see the OT brains at work.

[76561198278961361]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Darkie:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Hogarth:

Why is it wrong, do you not believe in math?

Math is a lot like religion, you have to believe in a lot of stuff, that contradict eachother and logically does not make sense.

except with enough effort you can actually trace anything to the base assumptions you've made, and you can't simply claim something to be true but have to prove it

[skOsH♥]

Początkowo opublikowane przez KyokoKirigireeee🎃:

archimedes drew a triangle in a circle, measured the 3 lines distance, then drew hexagon in cirlcle measured all sides, then kept drawing more hedrons till he got really close to measuring circumference

then figured out he could fit about 3.14 diameter into circumference in 300 bc

Voila, there's your answer.

Also, a circle has infinite points.

[Irene ❤]

Początkowo opublikowane przez d¢:

Początkowo opublikowane przez KyokoKirigireeee🎃:

archimedes drew a triangle in a circle, measured ... then figured out he could fit about 3.14 diameter into circumference in 300 bc

Voila, there's your answer.

Err but it's the wrong answer.. ..
Assume I have a string, it's 22cm. Exactly 22cm.

I use it to form a circle. The radius will be 7cm. Because 22:7 ratio.

However, if I use pi (π) to find back the string length,
I will get 3.14 x 7 = 21.98. It's no longer 22cm.

If I use more digits, 3.142857142857143 x 7 , I still get 21.99+++
I don't get 22 anymore.
so why accept the wrong formula π.

There's got to be another way.

Another example. I have a planet. The radius is 102186km.
With a bit of luck, I can divide 102186 by 7, and get 14598, Next, I multiply it by 22 to get the accurate circumference of 321,156km.

If I use π x 102186 I will get 320,864km and lost over 1000km.

So.. why accept π at all. Why accept the wrong as a rule. Some said it's because there is no better formula. Some said it's because that's the rule.

[kilésengati]

It was an easy money hack for mathematicians at the time. Imagine getting paid to calculate an irrational number. Then, we entered the digital age: Money printer kaputt!

jk, idk.

[jeetrix]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Irene ❤:

Basically, people in 18XX found out that a circle's diameter to circumference has a ratio of 22:7.
They invented π and said that it's the correct way to measure a circle, and everybody followed that rule till this day.

They were never accurate.
π is an irrational number. It is never ending and it's not real. Meaning the calculations you get are 'quite close' but it is NEVER the right answer.

Example : I make a simple 20cm2 area square cake. If I melt that cake and change it into a circle shape, using π I will get 19.998476286...which is a wrong measurement. Every digit behind it is wrong. It gives an infinite amount of wrong digits. 19.9 < 20

Why are people accepting π without knowing it's wrong? People have blindly follow the wrongs in 18XX? :ujel:

Pi is agreed upon. it is a symbolic value which signifies the ratio between the diameter and the circumference of a circle. While it is not a rational number, its the exact ratio. Its a concept of full accuracy, like in the platonic sense, perfect. in your example of the 1000km, you actually invent 1000km by using the 22/7 ratio. the PI computation is the most accurate one.

All the rational mathematical methods are approximations. Pi has been calculated, using a circle/diameter ratio, to more than a trillion digits accuracy, since its infinite its not, and never will be, knowable how to fully represent PI as a number sequence. You just can't do it with numbers with full accuracy. it's one of natures mysteries. An equal question could be why people accept mathematics and numbers if you cant even describe a ratio between a circle and its diameter. The answer is practicality.

Its pretty cool tho there are mind blowing patterns in PI and the numbers are somewhat evenly distributed into infinity, someone checked for it :)

[Dutchgamer1982]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Irene ❤:

Początkowo opublikowane przez d¢:

Voila, there's your answer.

Err but it's the wrong answer.. ..
Assume I have a string, it's 22cm. Exactly 22cm.

I use it to form a circle. The radius will be 7cm. Because 22:7 ratio.

However, if I use pi (π) to find back the string length,
I will get 3.14 x 7 = 21.98. It's no longer 22cm.

If I use more digits, 3.142857142857143 x 7 , I still get 21.99+++
I don't get 22 anymore.
so why accept the wrong formula π.

There's got to be another way.

Another example. I have a planet. The radius is 102186km.
With a bit of luck, I can divide 102186 by 7, and get 14598, Next, I multiply it by 22 to get the accurate circumference of 321,156km.

If I use π x 102186 I will get 320,864km and lost over 1000km.

So.. why accept π at all. Why accept the wrong as a rule. Some said it's because there is no better formula. Some said it's because that's the rule.

if you have a string you measured at 22cm it NEVER is exactly 22cm.
or to be more speccific your measurement means it is anything between 21.50cm and 22.49cm as the tool you used for measuring was not more exact.. if it was more exact you would have 22.0cm or 22.00cm etc not just 22cm.
EVERY measurement has an margin of error.

22cm has only an accuracy of 2 digits so the answer must be in 2 digits too.

now if you than make a circle with that string and you want to calculate the diameter or circle... that same amount of inaccuracy is converted..
***
and as told one must use pi for calculations with 2 more digets than the given number.

so diameter =
22/3.141 = 7.004......etc
that you round to 7.0
(and again 7.0 means the actual diameter is between 6.51 and 7.49)

if you say you have a rope of 22.θ (infite zeroes) you must also use pi with infite numbers and your answer must be in infinite numbers too.. and it most certainly will not be 7 nor 7.0

if I grab a ruler to measure that cord.. I can measure perhaps 22.0 cm (as my ruler is in steps of 1mm) perhaps if my eyesight is really well I can even measure 22.00cm but beyond that I need better tools to increase my accuracy.. and even the best tools have a limit on their accuracy..
there is no such thing as an absolute measurement.

pi on the other hand does not have to be measured.. it is a constant that can be mathenathicly derrived by geometry..
22/7 is a very crude first step result by humab hand with ancient outdated methods.. but with better math and modern conputer power we have pressed our unerstanding of pi to hundreds of decimals behind zero...but like 22/7 those are never exact yet.. just much better than 22/7.
so pi IS an absolute number unlike those meadusured values.. as it derives from calculation not measurement.

[LQIM]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Irene ❤:

Err but it's the wrong answer.. ..
Assume I have a string, it's 22cm. Exactly 22cm.

I use it to form a circle. The radius will be 7cm. Because 22:7 ratio.

However, if I use pi (π) to find back the string length,
I will get 3.14 x 7 = 21.98. It's no longer 22cm.

If I use more digits, 3.142857142857143 x 7 , I still get 21.99+++
I don't get 22 anymore.
so why accept the wrong formula π.

There's got to be another way.

Another example. I have a planet. The radius is 102186km.
With a bit of luck, I can divide 102186 by 7, and get 14598, Next, I multiply it by 22 to get the accurate circumference of 321,156km.

If I use π x 102186 I will get 320,864km and lost over 1000km.

So.. why accept π at all. Why accept the wrong as a rule. Some said it's because there is no better formula. Some said it's because that's the rule.

if you have a string you measured at 22cm it NEVER is exactly 22cm.
or to be more speccific your measurement means it is anything between 21.50cm and 22.49cm as the tool you used for measuring was not more exact.. if it was more exact you would have 22.0cm or 22.00cm etc not just 22cm.
EVERY measurement has an margin of error.

22cm has only an accuracy of 2 digits so the answer must be in 2 digits too.

now if you than make a circle with that string and you want to calculate the diameter or circle... that same amount of inaccuracy is converted..
***
and as told one must use pi for calculations with 2 more digets than the given number.

so diameter =
22/3.141 = 7.004......etc
that you round to 7.0
(and again 7.0 means the actual diameter is between 6.51 and 7.49)

if you say you have a rope of 22.θ (infite zeroes) you must also use pi with infite numbers and your answer must be in infinite numbers too.. and it most certainly will not be 7 nor 7.0

Don't bother. OP either never passed high-school math or is being intentionally obtuse

[DarkCrystalMethod]

I think her profile pic is acute though.
(Yes, I'm working the geometry meme angle)

[Irene ❤]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dutchgamer1982:

if you have a string you measured at 22cm it NEVER is exactly 22cm.
or to be more specific your measurement means it is anything between 21.50cm and 22.49cm as the tool you used for measuring was not more exact.. if it was more exact you would have 22.0cm or 22.00cm etc not just 22cm.
EVERY measurement has an margin of error.

Err.. no you still don't get it.
Let's say it's not a string. But your salary.
For every $22 the company makes, you get $7.
When the company makes $66,000 you get $21,000.

Then the company said, oh since it's 22/7, let's use π.

And they calculate your next salary with π.

The company makes $66,000. Hence your salary is 66,000 * 3.14 = 21,019.10.
You lost $1 instantly.

Where did the $1 go? Oh the tools to count money cannot be so accurate? Maybe the fingers are not accurate? Maybe the $1 is not really $1 but there are cents, so sometimes it's $1.05 and sometimes it's $0.95? Each time people count money, there is a margin of error and it's normal?

And what if it gets more complicated, the profit is now shared among CEO for 15:11 first, then shared between human resource for 13:9, finally shared 22:7 with you. If you use the same method to calculate backwards, you'd lose $1, then $10, then $100. You'd just lose more and more each time it goes.. and my question is, why accept this calculation approach?

You accept to lose $100 because it's good savings for the company? because it's the rule of the company? : P Why do people accept π.