jrpgs are not rpgs

[Millennial_KiwiGamer]

Im tired of pretending jrpgs let you roleplay. They dont.

Games like Baldurs Gate, Morrowwind, Neverwinter Nights even World of Warcraft, are far more suited to the title.

Weebs may get mad, but what ROLEPLAY happems in a Jrpg? Nothing! Theyre more akin to chess but with a story.

[permanent name]

Publicado originalmente por Rupika:

Publicado originalmente por permanent name:

Can’t you damage the cars? That’s character development right there.

Yes, I guess you could play the role of a bad driver. I'm not sure it is lore-friendly though.

The car was injured in a tragic accident due to a negligent driving ai. Our hero, Fast Racer, is in a battle against robots for the fate of european racing everywhere.

Each race is a turn based endeavor which is played out through LARPing mechanics.

[AdahnGorion]

Publicado originalmente por AustrAlien2010:

I wonder if anyone here would've called such games RPG's if they weren't told they were RPG's. Nobody thinks original thoughts.

I actually think some of the older ones would have been labelled, Tactical Adventures or even in some of them Tactical Dating Simulators.
FF is pretty much Tactical TB´s adventures, but granted, with a dash of RPG elements (but that is not the main)

The reason, they went with the JRPG tag, was because RPG´s actually had a golden age, when they got introduced to the "western" world.

But as I said earlier, it really all depends on how you define it and since a lot of people can´t agree on the definition, you can´t really reach any conclusion, you can ofc make "as objective as we can be" observations and logically valid arguments, about why x or y criteria, should be in the definition.


It is like asking someone what a chair is... people would also find different definitions, most would do it in a very simplistic way, some would go full blown details and specific (its just matters right? so everything can be a chair, even you) anyway.. my point here is, that the more detailed and logically the claims, the more reasonable it is to agree or go on compromise.

Vague arguments like "playing a role" ends up in an endless silly debate, with what we have just seen and does not really serve mucy purpose, nor to the topic at hand.



I guess, as I said in my first post, it depends on what core mehcanics you think an RPG have, depending on that, all JRPG´s could be RPG´s, or some or none. I am still in the middle route.

We could also have just gone with, its an RPG, because it says that it is... by that definition however, we can suddenly label many things (in problematic ways)

[ZZZZZ]

turn based rpgs will never be normal rpgs

[AdahnGorion]

Publicado originalmente por ardiel:

Publicado originalmente por Darkie:

RPG´s were born from tabletop.
Even some of the oldest RPG´s have systems in place (even with limitations from that era) that mimic the tabletop mechanics.

I mean tabletop RPG when I said RPG
i.e. tabletop RPG came from tabletop wargames.

Fair enough, we are in agreement then.

Publicado originalmente por Rupika:

Publicado originalmente por Darkie:

I can freely choose to drive left, right or even how fast I go, I can even run into other people and my race driver, named Drako Soulu, can even give interviews, level up and switch teams and such (player agency)

But again.. my point is, that it is not an RPG, I listed why your definition, is invalid and weak (in my opinion) and I listed my own subjective take on how you could define them (in much more detail and with links to their root)

By your argument, E.T. on Atari is also an RPG, it even had inventory.............

None of that stuff makes it a role playing game. It's just a playing game. And I never even mentioned inventory so IDK why you brought up that or ET. I don't even know what ET is.

And you didn't address my definition. I don't think you even understand my definition.

You start you debate, by posing an eternal truth claim, but then if provided with a similar eternal truth counter claim, you go "that is not how it is"

What that showcase, is the inability to debate and use valid argumentations, again in your definition (the vague one) my argument is valid, but I am yet to see, you argue against my first definition (with full blown specific and detailed mecahnics/features for the core traits)

Let me post you E.T. on Atari.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFt-La3UUu0

By your definition, that is an RPG.

[permanent name]

Publicado originalmente por Rupika:

Publicado originalmente por permanent name:

The car was injured in a tragic accident due to a negligent driving ai. Our hero, Fast Racer, is in a battle against robots for the fate of european racing everywhere.

Now give the cars some customisable technology and utilities, like boosters or stasis webifiers and we will be there. Like EVE online but F1 racing.

I will task my Second Life team to brainstorm ideas asap.

Also what if the cars don’t have upgrades, but instead permanently downgrade via damage to create stat scaling and I guess some sidegrades like bent axles helping with cornering.

[GlaceonChireiden]

Publicado originalmente por Lord_Dweedle:

Publicado originalmente por permanent name:

You’re roleplaying an established character.

Persona is a jrpg.

ANY game is an RPG by that weak definition because all games with characters put you into their shoes.

Correct

[AdahnGorion]

Publicado originalmente por permanent name:

Publicado originalmente por Rupika:

Now give the cars some customisable technology and utilities, like boosters or stasis webifiers and we will be there. Like EVE online but F1 racing.

I will task my Second Life team to brainstorm ideas asap.

Also what if the cars don’t have upgrades, but instead permanently downgrade via damage to create stat scaling and I guess some sidegrades like bent axles helping with cornering.

We can´t argue against this, if people think an RPG is "playing a role" or even just "player agency" then 80% of all games, still fall under that label. But it is not worth to debate forever, if people wanna tag stuff that way, they are free to do so.

I guess, we can atleast keep our subgenres more define (JRPG is as well, so it is not that big of a deal) so who cares.. I can enjoy my cRPG and some person can enjoy their Action Adventure, that they think is a RPG.. I don´t care.

[Good Night Owl]

Publicado originalmente por Darkie:

Publicado originalmente por permanent name:

I will task my Second Life team to brainstorm ideas asap.

Also what if the cars don’t have upgrades, but instead permanently downgrade via damage to create stat scaling and I guess some sidegrades like bent axles helping with cornering.

We can´t argue against this, if people think an RPG is "playing a role" or even just "player agency" then 80% of all games, still fall under that label. But it is not worth to debate forever, if people wanna tag stuff that way, they are free to do so.

This is exactly why I responded the way I did regarding the Dark Souls stuff earlier in the thread. I already went down this rabbit hole. It goes nowhere, the argument goes in circles, and in the end, no one agrees on anything.

[AdahnGorion]

Publicado originalmente por Rupika:

Publicado originalmente por Darkie:

You start you debate, by posing an eternal truth claim, but then if provided with a similar eternal truth counter claim, you go "that is not how it is"

What that showcase, is the inability to debate and use valid argumentations, again in your definition (the vague one) my argument is valid, but I am yet to see, you argue against my first definition (with full blown specific and detailed mecahnics/features for the core traits)

Let me post you E.T. on Atari.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFt-La3UUu0

By your definition, that is an RPG.

Now you're just blabbering. Which is typical OT behaviour when they realise they don't know what they are talking about, they just keep going and going in the hope something they say might make some sense.

You are not countering my argument however, you are making a personal attack (most likely because you can´t counter it, that is common in debates after all)

In cases like these, I don´t wanna waste the time, even less so, when I think the person I disagree with, normally is a friendly person. Then I just think we should agree to disagree, there is no shame, in not being able to agree on stuff.

You are free to look at my definition of what an RPG is, at post #72

[MinionJoe]

It's not an RPG of any sort if you can't backstab your party members and loot their corpses.

[permanent name]

There’s a point and click adventure with stats out there. I think treasure mountain is a potential contender as well.

Nothing I’m saying is more absurd than putting Skyrim, Diablo 2, Warhammer, and Gary’s mod rp servers in the same basic genre.

[AdahnGorion]

Publicado originalmente por Good Night Owl:

Publicado originalmente por Darkie:

We can´t argue against this, if people think an RPG is "playing a role" or even just "player agency" then 80% of all games, still fall under that label. But it is not worth to debate forever, if people wanna tag stuff that way, they are free to do so.

This is exactly why I responded the way I did regarding the Dark Souls stuff earlier in the thread. I already went down this rabbit hole. It goes nowhere, the argument goes in circles, and in the end, no one agrees on anything.

Indeed. The fun fact is just, that even the developer list it as just an Action game (no RPG tags) so that debate should not really be here in the first place, unless we wanted to go into wild details and diverge to fluid genres and actual academic debates..

But as I said.. in the end, it does not really matter what tag we give stuff (again as with the chair) what matters, is what base idea (our worldview) we have and that core, because that tells us a lot more about our bias, than the "I am right, you are wrong" debate....

The most important thing is that people have fun and I am sure a lot of people actually enjoy JRPG´s.

[Crazy Tiger]

Publicado originalmente por Good Night Owl:

It goes nowhere, the argument goes in circles, and in the end, no one agrees on anything.

People don't have to agree. In the end it's subjective anyway, so not agreeing is a perfectly fine outcome.

[the vampire of time and memory]

local person realises videogame genre names are nonsensical, gets really mad for some reason, follow up story coming soon

[Crystal Sharrd]

Publicado originalmente por The nameless Commander:

Not trying to start a war, but it's just different kind of roleplay. In JRPGs you are playing a preset/predetermined role, rather than one where you play your own character. It's not as flexible, yes, but the player is still assigned a ROLE all the same.

There are JRPGs where you make your own character.