jrpgs are not rpgs

[Millennial_KiwiGamer]

Im tired of pretending jrpgs let you roleplay. They dont.

Games like Baldurs Gate, Morrowwind, Neverwinter Nights even World of Warcraft, are far more suited to the title.

Weebs may get mad, but what ROLEPLAY happems in a Jrpg? Nothing! Theyre more akin to chess but with a story.

[AdahnGorion]

Lord_Dweedle eredeti hozzászólása:

Im tired of pretending jrpgs let you roleplay. They dont.

Games like Baldurs Gate, Morrowwind, Neverwinter Nights even World of Warcraft, are far more suited to the title.

Weebs may get mad, but what ROLEPLAY happems in a Jrpg? Nothing! Theyre more akin to chess but with a story.

Some of them do, but most of them have are a mixture of classic RPG stats systems (like statsbasings etc) but the story and character building, is more akin to Action Adventures/TB Adventures

Modern Bethesda games, including Skyrim is also mixtures of ARPG´s and Action Adventures, the RPG elements have gotten fewer and fewer (but the core mechanics ofc still draw from that genre)

RPG has many different sub genres, but all of them spring from cRPG´s.


Then again.. it depends on what you think a "RPG" is and even roleplaying, so well.

permanent name eredeti hozzászólása:

You’re roleplaying an established character.

Persona is a jrpg.

As others have said, if that is the definition, then even a hollow Action Adventure like GTA5 is an RPG (and it is not, since it lacks the core mechanics of RPG´s)


It is actually fairly common for people to confuse modern Action Adventures with RPG´s (mainly because they don´t know what an RPG is and take on the, but you play a "character" as the main argument for RPG)


Again.. it is a matter of definitions ofc. But most Jrpg´s are atleast based on core RPG elements, again we can debate how advanced it is and if there is actual player agency in terms of meaningful character progressions etc (I would argue yes for some and no for others)

Just because a developer list a tag for a game, does not mean we all agree with it btw, same goes for user tags (you can write anything, you could go into Baldur´s Gate 3 and tag it with dating simulator if you wanted too.


Some of the more important mehcanics/features of RPG´s include (in my opinion)

:Statsbasings (the entire game is based around it, not just your character, this also include ie. leveling, skills, etc))
:Freedom/Exdploration (being able to freely take different approaches or choices)
:Party based. You control not just one character and have freedom to manipulate the progression and story of said party members (companions)
:Player agency, being able to manipulate the story and enviroment around you.
:Story rich. The game features a rich story and in many cases also a branching story.
:Inventory management (being able to freely swap around items and loot stuff, to either enhance or make your character build suitable around said items)
:Character creation (stats and in some cases other features as well, such as classes, races, apparence, etc) The main element here, is that you can manipulate your character, even if its a preset one in terms of apperence etc.
:Meaningful interactions with companions and the world. Basically the game should revolve around this, the interactions and story, with your companions.
:Combat is statsbased and relies on TB (RTwP is also TB at heart) and in many cases also have classical tabletop mechanics, that add rnr, ie. dice rolling.

Basically RPG´s are based on tabletop D&D´at their cores.


Not all of these have to be present, these are just a snippet of some of the cores, some of them all cross in various genres, ie. the Story Rich is both in RPG and Adventure genres, and even various others and ofc subgenres.

An Action Adventure, could potentionally have you play a fixed character, give you an inventory, have a story rich, open world, that you can interact with, but have no statsbasings at all, thus rendering the RPG tag invalid. (examples of this are games such as RDR and GTA or that new SW game) They are not RPG´s.



But back to JRPG´s, some obviously forfil some of the above, some even have a lot of them and some don´t have much about anything of the above.. but its pretty much a subgenre,


So is the new FF a RPG?.. maybe... you could argue it is an ARPG, but a very dumbed down one that is.
Persona 5 Strikers, is not an actual RPG, it is more H&S with Action Adventure elements, than anything else.
The regular Persona 5, is more a dating sim, than an actual RPG, is you ask me. But has plenty of Adventure elements (more so than RPG)


Anyway.. it all depends on how you define RPG.. if you think its "playing a role" then F1 2022 is a RPG

Edit

permanent name eredeti hozzászólása:

The Longest Journey: roleplaying game?

Quantic Dream: a roleplaying studio?

Mario Odyssey…???

The longest Journey is an Adventure game and even the developer agree´s to that... obviously. I know your argument ofc.. but what confuse some of the other people, is that htey use the definition "playing a role" that you do in most games, as the RPG narrative.

So yes.. I know why you are doing this, but you can´t win an argument, with someone that have the other definition, because you will never agree on the definition.

That being said, people are free to have whatever definitions they want, its a free world after all.

[steven1mac]

RPG is such a broad term it could include almost anything.

[Good Night Owl]

steven1mac eredeti hozzászólása:

RPG is such a broad term it could include almost anything.

That's my take on it. Having RPG elements doesn't make an RPG for me. It's something you feel when playing. How immersed are you? I know that's a very general description, but that's what it is for me. If I don't get that feeling, then it doesn't feel like an RPG to me.

[permanent name]

San Andreas is an RPG, but not a cRPG as it is not turn based. Which is characteristic of that subgenre.

Into The Breach is though.

I dislike racing games due to the lack of RPG elements, but I suspect star wars pod racing’s appeal is roleplaying based for many people. As are any deviations from reality, such as being allowed to drive in F1.

[AdahnGorion]

Edifier eredeti hozzászólása:

Dutchgamer1982 eredeti hozzászólása:

jrpg us likely more like playing a theather piece.
no freedom what your role is.. no freedom in what your gear is no freedom in your quest progression or skill gains.. even the lines are put in your mouth.
- that is still picking up a role.. but it aint a GAME.

where rpg is like real life.. write your own story.. be your own, make your own chooices..

The same could be said for a lot of wRPG games.

Plenty of jRPG have the option to pick between roles. Then you get to pick the weapon your class is using. Same goes for gears and some gears often have bonuses to certain elements that are needed in various areas.

Skills and progression can be given choices as well. I've seen it been done.

While most jRPG does not let you pick the voice lines they often come with a full story that you can experience. It's also not like wRPG games have choices that makes grand differences every single time. A lot of them are pretty poor.

jRPGs are very much a game.

wRPGs are not superior in every way and the lot of them do things poorly. Trying to spread out content on too large area.

Dutchgamer1982 eredeti hozzászólása:

call me naiive but I never heared of the term jrpg..

How have you not heard of jRPGs? It was popularized back when Final Fantasy 7 was released and has been a thing since then.

Good Night Owl eredeti hozzászólása:

I made a similar thread years ago, except it was strictly about Dark Souls not being an RPG. My view on that hasn't changed, but it wasn't received very well by the Dark Souls community.

How is it not a RPG?
You make your character.
You pick your weapon and armor.
You can level up stats however you want.
You can kill anyone you want and Role play in whatever way you want.

How is it not a RPG?

Name some of the "western" RPG games, that does not have what the other user said?


Dark Souls, is not an RPG, its a metroidvania action adventure

[AdahnGorion]

Rupika eredeti hozzászólása:

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

Name some of the "western" RPG games, that does not have what the other user said?


Dark Souls, is not an RPG, its a metroidvania action adventure

Dark Souls is an RPG. You build and develop a character to fulfil a specific playstyle of your choice. That is your ROLE. Which you PLAY.

Dark Souls, is not based on a proper statsbasing systems, it lacks many of the other mechanics and features as well, listed on my previous post.
Its an metroidvania Action Adventure, that it is.. dodge dodge hit, all the way.

Rupika eredeti hozzászólása:

And no you cant call F1 an RPG. You have no choice in your playstyle or role. You are a car pretty much the same as all the others. That's it.

I don´t think so either, but by the "you play a role" it is.
You see, I can create a new racer, I can even give the person stats, then pick a team and even interact in a story... So well.. its an RPG by your definition.



As a fun extra note.

Even the developer agree with me, that it is not an RPG, (not user tag, but developer tags)

TITLE: DARK SOULS™: REMASTERED
GENRE: Action
DEVELOPER: QLOC
PUBLISHER: FromSoftware, Inc, Bandai Namco Entertainment
FRANCHISE: FRANCHISE
RELEASE DATE: 24 May, 2018

[permanent name]

Mud Runner: role-playing game?

[shoopy]

RPGs were born from wargaming with the desire to keep a specific hero for multiple sessions, so I think it's fine for an RPG to be solely based on combat without so much "playing the character" since 99% of the rules are about combat.

[AdahnGorion]

ardiel eredeti hozzászólása:

RPGs were born from wargaming with the desire to keep a specific hero for multiple sessions, so I think it's fine for an RPG to be solely based on combat without so much "playing the character" since 99% of the rules are about combat.

RPG´s were born from tabletop.
Even some of the oldest RPG´s have systems in place (even with limitations from that era) that mimic the tabletop mechanics.

[AustrAlien2010]

I wonder if anyone here would've even called such games RPG's if they weren't told they were RPG's. People are being taught this terminology which they accept and make their own, as if they came up with the word themself.

[permanent name]

You know that game where you sit in a circle and some people are murderers and you need to vote them out somehow?

Roleplaying game.

It’s turn based, and rng is often used in role assignment.

[permanent name]

Rupika eredeti hozzászólása:

What role can you play? A car in a race. It's not like you have blockers and attackers and oil slicks and caltrops. It's just a racing game. You can't develop your character to perform a specific role, so it isn't a role playing game.

Can’t you damage the cars? That’s character development right there.

[AdahnGorion]

Rupika eredeti hozzászólása:

What role can you play? A car in a race. It's not like you have blockers and attackers and oil slicks and caltrops. It's just a racing game. You can't develop your character to perform a specific role, so it isn't a role playing game.

I can freely choose to drive left, right or even how fast I go, I can even run into other people and my race driver, named Drako Soulu, can even give interviews, level up and switch teams and such (player agency)

But again.. my point is, that it is not an RPG, I listed why your definition, is invalid and weak (in my opinion) and I listed my own subjective take on how you could define them (in much more detail and with links to their root)

By your argument, E.T. on Atari is also an RPG, it even had inventory.............

[ZZZZZ]

darksouls is action hack& slash.. all hack&slash games have attack and defense mechanics

[shoopy]

Darkie eredeti hozzászólása:

ardiel eredeti hozzászólása:

RPGs were born from wargaming with the desire to keep a specific hero for multiple sessions, so I think it's fine for an RPG to be solely based on combat without so much "playing the character" since 99% of the rules are about combat.

RPG´s were born from tabletop.
Even some of the oldest RPG´s have systems in place (even with limitations from that era) that mimic the tabletop mechanics.

I mean tabletop RPG when I said RPG
i.e. tabletop RPG came from tabletop wargames.