Rings of Power CRASHES and BURNS! 45% on Rotten Tomatoes!

[ambi]

just wow. why is there a massive gap between media critics and audiences (80% vs 45%)? where are the legions of fans?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_lord_of_the_rings_the_rings_of_power

edit: as a comparison, the House of the Dragon got an 85% audience score.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/house_of_the_dragon

[AdahnGorion]

引用自 Zero, Dark Knight：

引用自 Darkie：

Well one could surely argue that point.
If it is fan fiction or not, that is a matter of interpertation.

Most will go a middle way and claim it is loosely based on the canon lore, but creatively changed to fit their structure and agendas with plot (when I say agenda here, I am not talking politics !!!!)

Okay so in your opinion, what is the source material for Rings of Power? If Peter Jackson, Tolkien Estate, etc didn't have any say in it .. as it's only 'arguable' as you said.

If we agree that it's a unique Amazon product with some weird LotR skin, then. I don't see the issue with saying, once again, it's a fan fiction basically.

If you ask me personally, then this is loosely based on the canon lore by Tolkien (the books) but with twist and changes, to make a show, that for the showmakers, seems plausible, exciting and captures what the general audience wants.


This is not uncommon, you often see various adaptations of books, in not just shows, but also movies, games, etc.. Sometimes in a new era, they reboot a book or take stuff from the book and recreate something entirely new based off the old "lore" canon, while modernizing it.


RoP is a modern take on lore from Tolkiens LotR.

Tolkien have no say in it, he is long die and don´t care (because again, he is dead)

[Your_White_Knight]

引用自 Your_White_Knight：

引用自 Traror：

I didn't say it was, just pointing out that there is plenty of divergences whenever source material is made into a move, but what matters is how much is based, and whether the changes make sense or improve upon, or is simply "making stuff up."

RoP is doing the latter.

Agree

引用自 Zero, Dark Knight：

Yeah but in this case - Amazon is the source material because they own it.

Not like Harry Potter movies, where J.K Rowling owned it and Warner Bros made it.

“We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says.

“And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.”

That takes a huge chunk of lore off the table and has left Tolkien fans wondering how this duo plans to tell a Second Age story without access to those materials. “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to,” McKay says.

“As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with".

"This means the series will be based on The Appendices at the end of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. Which, admittedly, does overlap in stories between the two books, but if it is mentioned in The Silmarillion and not in the Appendices, it is off-limits.

And this has to do with the rights from the Tolkien Estate and from J.R.R. Tolkien himself.”

- Showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay

* I should note...

That "rights to" is making T.V. shows for Amazon... not for making actual movies, books, comics or anything else...

Swedish company Embracer Group has acquire Middle-earth Enterprises, which owns worldwide rights to “The Lord of the Rings” and “The Hobbit” film trilogies as well as other properties related to the books by J.R.R. Tolkien including game, theme park and merch rights

J.R.R. Tolkien Estate still owns the rights to many of Tolkien's works...

[ChaffyExpert]

引用自 Holografix：

引用自 Traror：

How so, are you saying there is no such thing as bad characters/bad writing, because it's just a tool for "gatekeeping"?

i don't like to engage with you, but i will for this point as you requested clarification.

i'm addressing Darkie's use of their 'good/bad writing' concept. In my eyes, they are using it as a gatekeeping idea, and not using it as a descriptor for actual bad writing. They provide no detailed examples of how a character is not believable, or what exactly in the show is badly written.

But there is plenty of examples given on the flaws, given there is only a few episodes.

[Zero, Dark Knight]

引用自 Darkie：

If you ask me personally, then this is loosely based on the canon lore by Tolkien (the books) but with twist and changes, to make a show, that for the showmakers, seems plausible, exciting and captures what the general audience wants.


This is not uncommon, you often see various adaptations of books, in not just shows, but also movies, games, etc.. Sometimes in a new era, they reboot a book or take stuff from the book and recreate something entirely new based off the old "lore" canon, while modernizing it.


RoP is a modern take on lore from Tolkiens LotR.

Tolkien have no say in it, he is long die and don´t care (because again, he is dead)

Okay, so it's an Amazon owned licence, which turned into an Amazon owned show, which uses a Lord of the Rings skin, to tell an Amazon original tale, which has no relation to the other activities and official stuff in the universe which is canon.

?

If you say "Yeah."
= it's fan fiction.

If you say "Nope."
Then where am I going wrong in reading you? because it's pretty obvious Amazon did this all on their own, without consulting anyone, and everyone seems to agree to be mad at Amazon alone, not Tolkien, not Jackson, nope.

[Holografix]

引用自 Traror：

引用自 Holografix：

i don't like to engage with you, but i will for this point as you requested clarification.

i'm addressing Darkie's use of their 'good/bad writing' concept. In my eyes, they are using it as a gatekeeping idea, and not using it as a descriptor for actual bad writing. They provide no detailed examples of how a character is not believable, or what exactly in the show is badly written.

But there is plenty of examples given on the flaws, given there is only a few episodes.

I've seen both episodes, and the abstract concepts Darkie used like 'bad writing' or 'unbelievable characters' were nowhere to be seen.

[Your_White_Knight]

引用自 Darkie：

... Tolkien have no say in it, he is long die and don´t care (because again, he is dead)

Unless you have a ouija board... I doubt you know he doesn't care... dead or not he's spinning

[Holografix]

引用自 Darkie：

引用自 Your_White_Knight：

Yes, don't bother... there's no reasoning with him.

All that he can see is "it's gatekeeping" because that's all he's interested in "the diversity of it".

He has a one note song...

I know..

If you go back to earlier pages, you will see me have long long wall of text argumentation about how to write, chracter create, etc.. basically how the creative process works.

Then I showcase my bias (detailed and with the word, biased, because it can be done differently) then I bring lots of examples on what I consider bad technique, or good.. what I think is belieable, how to structure characters, so they have motivations, backstories, etc..

But Holografix, then ask me why I don´t think a woman can´t be strong...........
That is litterly after I just detailed an example about how Ellen Ripley from Alien is one of my favourite characters created and why it works so well..

It is hard to debate, when some people keep projecting real life onto writing and inserts politics, instead of talking about hte creativity.

Sure.. if the character, setting, is based on a historical event or in a realistic setting, then we can always bring some real life talk into it... but I mean.. this is high fantasy......

i responded to your post about Ripley and you never responded. That's why you and I are still having disagreements.

You always talk generalities and never specifics which is the problem with your arguments.

[ChaffyExpert]

引用自 Holografix：

引用自 Traror：

But there is plenty of examples given on the flaws, given there is only a few episodes.

I've seen both episodes, and the abstract concepts Darkie used like 'bad writing' or 'unbelievable characters' were nowhere to be seen.

That's what you say, i personally have given several specific examples of it's flaws, along with pretty much everyone else. In what way would you say we are wrong?

[Holografix]

引用自 Traror：

引用自 Holografix：

I've seen both episodes, and the abstract concepts Darkie used like 'bad writing' or 'unbelievable characters' were nowhere to be seen.

That's what you say, i personally have given several specific examples of it's flaws, along with pretty much everyone else. In what way would you say we are wrong?

i am only talking about Darkie's argument and the flaws I see in their argumentation.

The show, whether you've seen it or not, is not something I'm going to discuss with you.

[Your_White_Knight]

引用自 Darkie：

引用自 Your_White_Knight：

Yes, don't bother... there's no reasoning with him.

All that he can see is "it's gatekeeping" because that's all he's interested in "the diversity of it".

He has a one note song...

I know..

If you go back to earlier pages, you will see me have long long wall of text argumentation about how to write, chracter create, etc.. basically how the creative process works.

Then I showcase my bias (detailed and with the word, biased, because it can be done differently) then I bring lots of examples on what I consider bad technique, or good.. what I think is belieable, how to structure characters, so they have motivations, backstories, etc..

But Holografix, then ask me why I don´t think a woman can´t be strong...........
That is litterly after I just detailed an example about how Ellen Ripley from Alien is one of my favourite characters created and why it works so well..

It is hard to debate, when some people keep projecting real life onto writing and inserts politics, instead of talking about hte creativity.

Sure.. if the character, setting, is based on a historical event or in a realistic setting, then we can always bring some real life talk into it... but I mean.. this is high fantasy......

Oh I have no doubts on his intents...

The only thing is that even with historical events people are starting to take liberties ( Anne Boleyn )... I don't buy the "but it's fantasy so anything goes" poly... and I even gave a link to where Tolkien himself didn't either.

This has always been a means to an end of pushing politics and social issues by means of ruining an existing work of entertainment... that's the purpose of entwining it in the creativity to make it hard to separate... but it's not one thing OR the other, both are bad to do in the name of "entertainment"

But that's exactly their intent.

[Holografix]

引用自 Your_White_Knight：

引用自 Darkie：

But Holografix,

Oh I have no doubts on his intents...

what's the deal here? lol

[Your_White_Knight]

引用自 Darkie：

引用自 Your_White_Knight：

Unless you have a ouija board... I doubt you know he doesn't care... dead or not he's spinning

So you are assuming, that people can "care" after they are dead? But would being able to "care" not mean, that a person would be conscious?

Well.. lets ask Plato.. maybe he can help us settle this.. ohh wait..

If they cared when they were living... what makes you think they don't when they are dead?

lol... Plato dead?... let's ask Freud then... ohhh wait... lol

Let me put it this way... if he didn't care he wouldn't of put copyrights on his works which extended past his death... maybe his family doesn't care, but that's on them... and the shame as well.

[Zero, Dark Knight]

引用自 Holografix：

what's the deal here? lol

He's just doing his usual proving of why no one takes him seriously.

[Zero, Dark Knight]

引用自 Darkie：

Our little jokes aside. There is little more to talk about atm. Maybe after a few more episodes, we can debate deeper, after all we could see a dramatic change in quality.

You mean it might get better? I doubt it. The story has been written already. It's not changing mid production

[Your_White_Knight]

引用自 Darkie：

引用自 Your_White_Knight：

If they cared when they were living... what makes you think they don't when they are dead?

lol... Plato dead?... let's ask Freud then... ohhh wait... lol

Let me put it this way... if he didn't care he wouldn't of put copyrights on his works... maybe his family doesn't care, but that's on them... and the shame as well.

In that case, he did care, but he does not care anymore now.

There is a difference after all

Our little jokes aside. There is little more to talk about atm. Maybe after a few more episodes, we can debate deeper, after all we could see a dramatic change in quality.

I differ with your difference... but again we'll have to agree to disagree.

I guess that depends on what you mean by "quality"... some ( SOME ) more impressive CGI? that's already there won't change "quality" any more...

Quality in writing and acting? ( and I won't even use quotes on those words even though I should ) that bar won't be hard to match with already having:

"...our hearts are bigger then our feet..."

No joking...