Rings of Power CRASHES and BURNS! 45% on Rotten Tomatoes!

[ambi]

just wow. why is there a massive gap between media critics and audiences (80% vs 45%)? where are the legions of fans?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_lord_of_the_rings_the_rings_of_power

edit: as a comparison, the House of the Dragon got an 85% audience score.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/house_of_the_dragon

[Lora Grim]

I will make my own netflix series called Ropes of Powder based in the tolkien metaverse.
It will be about Frodo trying get his NFT business off the ground, but is kept down by those boomer traditionalist hobbits who do not believe in technology or progress.
Frodo with his friends from My Little Pony will travel the world, meeting famous Nintendo characters such as Darth Vader who will help him set up the ultimate NFT platform.

[AdahnGorion]

Messaggio originale di Zero, Dark Knight:

Messaggio originale di Traror:

I didn't say it was, just pointing out that there is plenty of divergences whenever source material is made into a move, but what matters is how much is based, and whether the changes make sense or improve upon, or is simply "making stuff up."

RoP is doing the latter.

Yeah but in this case - Amazon is the source material because they own it.

Not like Harry Potter movies, where J.K Rowling owned it and Warner Bros made it.

Amazon never "owned" LotR, they went to the Tolkien family and bought a licence to make and stream Rings of Power.

Embracer Group, currently owns the LotR licence.

[ChaffyExpert]

Messaggio originale di Lora Grim:

I will make my own netflix series called Ropes of Powder based in the tolkien metaverse.
It will be about Frodo trying get his NFT business off the ground, but is kept down by those boomer traditionalist hobbits who do not believe in technology or progress.
Frodo with his friends from My Little Pony will travel the world, meeting famous Nintendo characters such as Darth Vader who will help him set up the ultimate NFT platform.

Shhh don't give them any ideas, did you not forget Space Jam 2 is a thing.

[Zero, Dark Knight]

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

Embracer Group, currently owns the LotR licence.

Amazon owns Rings of Power though, no? that's what we're discussing here, so it's an original show owned by Amazon? or is that wrong.

[AdahnGorion]

Messaggio originale di Zero, Dark Knight:

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

Embracer Group, currently owns the LotR licence.

Amazon owns Rings of Power though, no? that's what we're discussing here, so it's an original show owned by Amazon? or is that wrong.

They do own the "rights" a licence to make the show and stream it.
Notice the "rights"

Kinda like when you buy a game on steam, then you also don´t own it, but you do own a licence to play that particular game.

Disney however owns Star Wars <-- That is not an lience, they own it.


The difference is that Disney decide what the "canon" is and whatever they want to make, they can also sell licencens.
Amazon paid for the "rights" to use the "canon" to make "semi fan faction, based on canon" with a new show in the universe

But Amazon can´t make new canon, delete it or ie. suddenly make a videogame about it.

[Holografix]

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

Messaggio originale di Holografix:

Saying you like believable characters or well-written characters is a cop-out argument. No one says "I want poorly written characters." Well-written characters is a standard of liking something. To make mention of it, means you are using it in a sneaky way to push your agenda.

I already listed details and criterias about what I consider good writing and good character building. What is my agenda?

No one says that they want 'bad writing' or 'bad character building.' To make mention of that criteria is ludicrous; it's a non-statement, a truism.

People like to use those concepts in 'gatekeeping' arguments or to demonstrate how the ever-receding idea of 'good writing' is unattainable by certain shows.

It's a slanted take, and deviously so.

[Zero, Dark Knight]

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

Kinda like when you buy a game on steam, then you also don´t own it, but you do own a licence to play that particular game.

but the source material for Rings of Power, is Rings of Power. It's just in the setting of Lord of the Rings with cameos of characters. *shrug*

Kinda like when people do fan fiction of Sonic meets <my original character here.> you know?

Remember the context of what I said, was agreeing with Traror with it being fan fiction basically.

[AdahnGorion]

Messaggio originale di Holografix:

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

I already listed details and criterias about what I consider good writing and good character building. What is my agenda?

No one says that they want 'bad writing' or 'bad character building.' To make mention of that criteria is ludicrous; it's a non-statement, a truism.

People like to use those concepts in 'gatekeeping' arguments or to demonstrate how the ever-receding idea of 'good writing' is unattainable by certain shows.

It's a slanted take, and deviously so.

I don´t know how to help you Holografix, I have tried to cut it into tiny bits and present it for you, but it seems like you don´t actually understand what I am talking about...

.... Bad writing for you and me can be different, I listed specifics examples on not just structure, but also usages and worldbuilding, plot creation, etc etc...
If you can´t understand this, we will just have to agree, to not debate, since it seems rather pointless for me to keep telling you specifics, if you just revolt back to saying "nobody likes bad writing"

Have a good evening and consider our debate together concluded.

[Holografix]

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

Messaggio originale di Holografix:

No one says that they want 'bad writing' or 'bad character building.' To make mention of that criteria is ludicrous; it's a non-statement, a truism.

People like to use those concepts in 'gatekeeping' arguments or to demonstrate how the ever-receding idea of 'good writing' is unattainable by certain shows.

It's a slanted take, and deviously so.

I don´t know how to help you Holografix, I have tried to cut it into tiny bits and present it for you, but it seems like you don´t actually understand what I am talking about...

.... Bad writing for you and me can be different, I listed specifics examples on not just structure, but also usages and worldbuilding, plot creation, etc etc...
If you can´t understand this, we will just have to agree, to not debate, since it seems rather pointless for me to keep telling you specifics, if you just revolt back to saying "nobody likes bad writing"

Have a good evening and consider our debate together concluded.

right, i'm the one who 'doesn't understand.' Can't face the idea that your arguments are BS, eh?

[Your_White_Knight]

Messaggio originale di Traror:

Messaggio originale di Your_White_Knight:

The Tolken's estate had nothing to do with Rings of Power so wrong.

The author's son Christopher Tolkien died January 16, 2020 so wrong.

Peter Jackson's movies had nothing to do with Rings of Power so wrong.

So anything you just said ( and nobody said anything about trolls except Steam Forum trolls ) had nothing to do with the post... unless you're trying to troll now yourself...

I didn't say it was, just pointing out that there is plenty of divergences whenever source material is made into a move, but what matters is how much is based, and whether the changes make sense or improve upon, or is simply "making stuff up."

RoP is doing the latter.

Agree

Messaggio originale di Zero, Dark Knight:

Yeah but in this case - Amazon is the source material because they own it.

Not like Harry Potter movies, where J.K Rowling owned it and Warner Bros made it.

“We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says.

“And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.”

That takes a huge chunk of lore off the table and has left Tolkien fans wondering how this duo plans to tell a Second Age story without access to those materials. “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to,” McKay says.

“As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with".

"This means the series will be based on The Appendices at the end of The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. Which, admittedly, does overlap in stories between the two books, but if it is mentioned in The Silmarillion and not in the Appendices, it is off-limits.

And this has to do with the rights from the Tolkien Estate and from J.R.R. Tolkien himself.”

- Showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay

[ChaffyExpert]

Messaggio originale di Holografix:

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

I don´t know how to help you Holografix, I have tried to cut it into tiny bits and present it for you, but it seems like you don´t actually understand what I am talking about...

.... Bad writing for you and me can be different, I listed specifics examples on not just structure, but also usages and worldbuilding, plot creation, etc etc...
If you can´t understand this, we will just have to agree, to not debate, since it seems rather pointless for me to keep telling you specifics, if you just revolt back to saying "nobody likes bad writing"

Have a good evening and consider our debate together concluded.

right, i'm the one who 'doesn't understand.' Can't face the idea that your arguments are BS, eh?

How so, are you saying there is no such thing as bad characters/bad writing, because it's just a tool for "gatekeeping"?

[Zero, Dark Knight]

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

Well one could surely argue that point.
If it is fan fiction or not, that is a matter of interpertation.

Most will go a middle way and claim it is loosely based on the canon lore, but creatively changed to fit their structure and agendas with plot (when I say agenda here, I am not talking politics !!!!)

Okay so in your opinion, what is the source material for Rings of Power? If Peter Jackson, Tolkien Estate, etc didn't have any say in it .. as it's only 'arguable' as you said.

If we agree that it's a unique Amazon product with some weird LotR skin, then. I don't see the issue with saying, once again, it's a fan fiction basically.

[Your_White_Knight]

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

Messaggio originale di Holografix:

No one says that they want 'bad writing' or 'bad character building.' To make mention of that criteria is ludicrous; it's a non-statement, a truism.

People like to use those concepts in 'gatekeeping' arguments or to demonstrate how the ever-receding idea of 'good writing' is unattainable by certain shows.

It's a slanted take, and deviously so.

I don´t know how to help you Holografix, I have tried to cut it into tiny bits and present it for you, but it seems like you don´t actually understand what I am talking about...

.... Bad writing for you and me can be different, I listed specifics examples on not just structure, but also usages and worldbuilding, plot creation, etc etc...
If you can´t understand this, we will just have to agree, to not debate, since it seems rather pointless for me to keep telling you specifics, if you just revolt back to saying "nobody likes bad writing"

Have a good evening and consider our debate together concluded.

Yes, don't bother... there's no reasoning with him.

All that he can see is "it's gatekeeping" because that's all he's interested in "the diversity of it".

He has a one note song...

[ChaffyExpert]

Messaggio originale di Your_White_Knight:

Messaggio originale di Darkie:

I don´t know how to help you Holografix, I have tried to cut it into tiny bits and present it for you, but it seems like you don´t actually understand what I am talking about...

.... Bad writing for you and me can be different, I listed specifics examples on not just structure, but also usages and worldbuilding, plot creation, etc etc...
If you can´t understand this, we will just have to agree, to not debate, since it seems rather pointless for me to keep telling you specifics, if you just revolt back to saying "nobody likes bad writing"

Have a good evening and consider our debate together concluded.

Yes, don't bother... there's no reasoning with him.

All that he can see is "it's gatekeeping" because that's all he's interested in "the diversity of it".

He has a one note song...

I personally thought it was more like the sound in Lost where it sounds like every note is being played simultaneously.

[Holografix]

Messaggio originale di Traror:

Messaggio originale di Holografix:

right, i'm the one who 'doesn't understand.' Can't face the idea that your arguments are BS, eh?

How so, are you saying there is no such thing as bad characters/bad writing, because it's just a tool for "gatekeeping"?

i don't like to engage with you, but i will for this point as you requested clarification.

i'm addressing Darkie's use of their 'good/bad writing' concept. In my eyes, they are using it as a gatekeeping idea, and not using it as a descriptor for actual bad writing. They provide no detailed examples of how a character is not believable, or what exactly in the show is badly written.