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You legit think it's Valve's fault game devs don't make these anymore?
Blockbuster is gone bro; get over it.
Legally no; practically yes. The only difference now is that you aren't physically handing your friend a copy of the game.
You can literally disable automatic updates on Steam...
This is just a lie. Steam refunds games all the time. You may not like their policy but they do refund games.
Already addressed.
Go ahead and start a class-action lawsuit and I'll be right behind you I swear.
I can literally log into any computer and play games from my account (not to mention family sharing).
This has already been addressed.
Source: Dude Just Trust Me
Seriously go ahead and start a class-action lawsuit if you feel so wronged.
Ahh, the "Valve killed Gamestop" argument. Whatever you say bro.
Some people like trash games. You don't have to buy them you know?
just fine, thank you for asking.
bit buisy.. now that finally covid measures start to be dropped I can actually do real life things again;)
:O
- Failure to innovate (over a reasonable period of time) on the Steam profile system
- Failure to implement extraordinarily popular suggestions from the Suggestion forum (i.e. Badge rework)
- Lack of using their platform/size to push developers out of DRM
These of course are just a few but that is to say that Valve/Steam isn't perfect. They just happen to be one of the best game companies I can think of. This whole thread is an expression of my concern that Valve might turn into EA or Activision/Blizzard.Retail pc games were NEVER returnable, at least in my country. You could only return console games but the game had to be in pristine condition and not every shop would take even those back.
1 I am not from usa... gamestop never existed here.. we had a dosin or more chains selling fysical games beside their other products, and 3 dedicated movies & games chains.
2 you very well know that an individual with his limited funds never will win from a behomoth like valve even if you have the law on your side, enless stalling till my funds dry out tactics are well known to be used by corporations.
-> I have to add that thissue me attitude is exactly what I despise about american culture.. in europe buisnuisses generally desire to follow the law.. in usa buisnuisses calculate what will be cheaper ignoring the law or following it.. I have litterly posted the law articles in steam support and got a "well you may be right but good luck sueing me" responce back. here if I email a detailed copy with the actual law articles in it proving I am right usually will have any compagny comply.
3 yes one can turn of updates on steam.. but one can not delite a game reinstal it exactly as you originally bought it.. nor reroll an update once it has been done.. sure you can for some games, play with SOME older versions.. but this is very limited and has many holes
4 the option to refund games is only true for games bought on steam itself.. and only if played less than 4 hours..and that is a recent move.. it was not there back than.
regardless it is pretty useless as many errors in game turn up long after that 4 hour mark.
4 hours is a way worse deal than 14 days after purchase.
=>
and for retail bought copies (or codes obtained from other digital stores that still need steam to instal).. I cannot get a refund at all. as I could only get that refund from the store I bought them from.. and they would only give that refund if I also return the steam registration code.. as long as valve refuses to unbind such codes at a users request.. they have 0 chance at a refund.
5 yes there is family sharing now, again used not to be there. but again severely limited.
->family sharing is limited to only 10 people maximum
-> family sharing is per account.. not per game
if I have 100000 games on my account.. individually bought only 1 of those can be played by any person while online.
-> I can go in offline modus to play my own games, but not the games family shared to me.
-> meaning of all the games I own at best 2 can be accesed at the same time.. 1 in offline modus by me (an anoying thing to do as that denies me achievements and such) and 1 who uses 1 of my many games in multiplayer mode
************
that by NO WAY is comparable to the old way of just handing a friend one of the copies of my game.
6 yes you are right that technically one could make a new steam account for each purchase (or for each externally bought steam code, and than individually hand out the logins to third parties if I so desire.
->IF you are found out (and that is pretty much a given if you created 100s of accounts on the same IP adres, all buying 1 game paid from the same 1 bank account) valve will take all those accounts and the games away.
-> even if by a mirracle you are not found out.. typic and remembering 100s of login names and passwords is a tremendous hassle.. way more than just the old type in the install code once, and just insert the disk when you want to play that 1 particulair game.
7 no you have not adressed the change from retail to oem licence.
Do you even know what the difference means??
look at windows.. originally ALL windows licences were full retail, meaning it was fully legal to sell your install code or take it to another pc.. than windows lowered the price of windows by a large chunk.. but you were no longer allowed to resell or use these licences, and a more expensive version was still available for those still wanting full retail (at least windows kept offering that option.. as I always only bought full retail versions of my OS despite those licences being in the 200-300 euro range rather than the 30-80 euro range for an oem version.
->
you state steam games are not oem because they can be installed on multiple pc's.. and yes that is where the comparising is different.. no your steam games are not bound to just 1 pc like a windows oem version.. but instead of being bound to 1 hardware configuration instead to 1 account forever, that may only ever be owned by 1 user, the difference is where it is bound to.. for full retail licences, the ownership is bound to something that can legally be transfered, for oem it is bound to something that may legally not be transferred.. and such oem licences have considerably less value and thus should have much lower price (yet steam games do not)
8 I am not complaining about inflation.
what I compare here is : it a title releases for 51.99 both fysical as well on steam.
(and while rare these days.. it still happens though almost all those releases require steam to instal, and most are merely a steam licence code in a fancy box.. no more cd/dvd included)
->
I see that valve.. who promotes itself as offering cheap games, and being the friend of the pc master race.. is lying.
->
for that fysical copy will not long be 51.99.. it will drop likely after 6 months to 44.99, than 39.99, than 34.99, 29.99, 24.99, 19.99, 14.99, 12.99, 9.99, 6.99 and finally 4.99.
That is the base price... available all year round.. that is actually lowered gradually..
->
that steam copy will however forever STAY at 51.99.. but only during sales it will get discounted.. but by the time steam gives a 25% discount.. making the game 38.99 on steam.. the game usually is already 29.99 or 34.99 by DEFAULT in stores.
this is what I mean if I say that on average a SALES price on steam is still 15% higher than the DEFAULT price of the same game same title in a retail store.
**
this DESPITE the fact that a steam release has no cost of packaging and shipping nor rental cost for the shelfspace.. and thus has far lower publishing costs per copy.
**
if valve was really so into customers.. they should lower the maximum discount percentages severely.. or force devs to gradually lower their baseprice over time or have a penalty that if a dev sets a high discount percentage during a sale.. it also lowers their baseprice by a fraction of the discount they just gave after the sale is done.. or something similair..
***
valve thus overcharges every user on average 15% during sales.. and outside sales you just get 25-1000% overcharged insanity prices..
as a shop.. that is saying to be there for games.. you do have a responsibility to do something about that.
9 : yes I think it is valve who is to blame devs no longer make fysical copies (or not as many as they once did)
->
valve started and remains to be a drm..
at the turn of the millenium once internet started to become monthly subscription instead of insanely expensive and slow call in modems.. while simultaniously.. cd-rw started to get cheaper fast.. from the 2000 euro per device and 50 euro per disk they costed 2 years before to an affordable 150 euro per device and a mere 1 euro per disk...
-> this gave developers logically piracy concerns and they wanted an option beyond the mere installation code already present.
-> there were alternative things in development, most promising were usb sticks that would no longer allow the user to instal the game but instead be plugged in and played directly from the stick. though these were still expensive to produce (upto 12 euro each)..
-> when valve offered devs an alternative.. they would handle the drm.. in exchange for a few euro per registered code (as valve would have no idea what actually was paid for these codes),,,, both parties jumped on that train.
->
(piracy actually never was a problem.. as a gamer pirates more, he also spends more on game.. and it is for the market better to have a person buy 15 games and pirate 25.. than buy 5 and pirate 0.)
->
developers ofcourse are as much to blame as steam is.. their greed.. steam clearly was intended for entire darker goals from the getgo.. for the developers it effectively ended the 2d hand trade of games.. boosting their sales as well as freeing them from quality control
for valve it was a way to start grabbing market control.
-
and when valve offered them to also sell games though them.. shortly after well every copy sold though there would come with 0 printing and distribution cost.. so again less quality control for the devs. and more market control for valve
-
so no valve is not ALONE to blame for this.. but as their entire income model is build on it.. they sure facilitated it. can you blame the dealer for your daughter dying of drugs.. sure you can!
retail pc games in my nation were always returnable for the 14 days any other product was too. and for the entire 80s and 90s this was the case..
**in some stores the rule was this applied only on unopened copies.. but as stores faced people stealing the items out of the boxes.. stores quickly only placed empty boxes on the shelves and held the contents behind the counter.. and as a concequence for most my childhood and teens and early 20s.. yes you could return them even opened.
**the one exeption was if you had damaged the goods.. and than I mean rips in the box.. scratches on the cd, coffeestains etc.. in that case no refund...
**when plextor cd writers were more affordable (as in still 500 euro each.. but I owned one as did some others).. stores did change their policy slightly.. -> they would write down your name if you requested a refund.. if you refunded too often when compared to your number of purchases.. you would be banned from making future purchases at that sture.
**once steam hit.. stores quickly ended this.. originally they still alowed returns but as they placed those back on the shelves other customers would get back with complains could not install it, code already used... as the store could not see if the code was already used without registering it themselves.. that ment they had to presume each copy sold was already used... and until valve would allow codes being unbound from accounts.. that would remain.
I'm not gonna lie bro that was one of the least digestible posts I've ever read. Others might benefit if you break up your posts using the built-in formatting features. Honestly for a post that long you might want to consider headers.
Regardless, I know you have issues with Valve. That's fine, honestly I do as well. I absolutely don't agree that they've "Always been evil" or even the majority of your takes but they do have a lot of things they could improve on.
I'm just concerned that Valve, which is objectively not the worst game company (Source: The 8000 times EA has been voted this), will abandon what do they well for what is profitable.
It is a privately owned company. All Gabe's. All he is going to do is put a seat warmer in place, and if they do something he doesn't like, he just says no and fixes it. It's good to be the King. As well as the total and complete owner.
Things might change when he dies. But seeing as his son Gray is a gamer and game developer, I think the throne is in good hands.
sorry for the textwall shall try to make chapters;)
well if valve improving so it would do things right to me that would mean ;
**
1
allow users to unbind any game they own on steam (if externally bought it frees up the code for reuse, if internally it turns the game in a gift)
2
allow steam users to than gift these games to eachothers account as well as allow them to be traded on the steam marketplace (as always both valve and the developer of that game take their 10% cut)
3
expand the steam refund time to 30 days, without any limit on time played. (digitally purchased goods have 30 days refund in my nation)
-> the defence often has been that some indie games can be completed in a few hours.
**I still remain firm on a 30 day refund window.. but I would be forgiving in hours played, yet four is way to few.
**if steam would say all games bought for 10 euro or more have no time played limit for returns,
** but games bought under that have a maximum number of hours played of 3 times their price in euro to be elegable for refund. That would to me be an acceptable compromise.
4
family sharing must be vastly expanding.. the limit of just 10 people must be removed (though I will allow the need to be fysically at their pc to activate it to prevent overuse).. and instead of 1 online user per account.. it must change to 1 online user per game ON an account. (so no 2 players can use the same licence at the same time.. as only limit)
If these things are done.. than valve be acceptable again in my book. These 4 changes are long overdue.
if they want to earn extra credit and actually become user friendly I would like to see 3 more changes
A
the option to purchase and have shipped to me fysical copies that I can use without ever needing steam.. even if very expensive option would be a thing I very much would like.
(something like an usb stick I just stick in my pc to play the game..)
B
forcing devs to actually stop using the insane discount sceme.. and take some sort of actual price control.. to have base prices drop gradually.. and have more fair prices year round.
C
rendering it unable for devs to pull games from steam.. once they available on steam... they will forever be on steam.. by making this a part of the contract devs sighn when selling their product trough the steam store.
I agree with you on a fundamental level that each of these would be nice/great to have. It's important to note that some of these likely aren't possible (or would take an entire change in behavior on Steam's part) though. For example:
Valve, currently, has limited control over what prices devs/publisher put on their games. CA (creator of the Total War: Warhammer series) leaves their 10 year old games at $60 because they feel like it, not because Valve made them set that price.
Sure Valve could use their platform/influence to pressure devs/publishers to meet stricter price controls. I'm not sure this would be a good practice though as I assume it would only serve to make devs/publishers unhappy and lead them to look to other platforms (i.e. Epic, Microsoft, Uplay lol jk no one likes Uplay)
This is just practically impossible. Games, particularly AAA games, often have licensed music, logos, even real people/teams featured in their games. It costs that developer to license that content. To ask that the game be available on Steam in perpetuity is to ask that developer to pay for that licensed content for the rest of time. Developers would literally go bankrupt from this one suggestion.
As a side note thank you for breaking up your post more
I know and I agree. I was just hypothetically saying that Valve could pressure devs/publishers on price if they felt like it (the same way other monopolies do).