Gabe Newell Takes A Flamethrower To The Metaverse And NFTs

[Mr Jt (Gog is king)]

Back when blockchain gaming was first starting to take off, Steam took an early stance that it would not allow blockchain-based games on its platform, while rivals like Epic Games said they were more open to it. Now, Gabe is talking about both that decision, and all the tech hype surrounding the “metaverse.” It’s…kind of amazing.


"The things that were being done were super sketchy. And there was some illegal ♥♥♥♥ that was going on behind the scenes, and you're just like, yeah, this is bad. Blockchains as a technology are a great technology, that the ways in which has been utilized are currently are all pretty sketchy. And you sort of want to stay away from that…. The people who are currently active in that space are not usually good actors."

And on the metaverse (via PC Gamer):

"There's a bunch of get rich quick schemes around metaverse. Most of the people who are talking about metaverse have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. And they've apparently never played an MMO. They're like, 'Oh, you'll have this customizable avatar.' And it's like, well... go into La Noscea in Final Fantasy 14 and tell me that this isn't a solved problem from a decade ago, not some fabulous thing that you're, you know, inventing.

Here, Newell is saying plainly what many in the gaming community have been thinking when it comes to the “metaverse” presented as a bunch of blockchain-based Second Life knockoffs that are selling virtual real-estate to stupid business brands for millions. Meanwhile, actual metaverses, immersive video games, have been around for decades and already do all the things and much, much more than these newcomers.

Very few people in this space will speak this frankly about the current gold rush situation when it comes to the blockchain, NFTs and the metaverse, but it’s great to hear from industry icon Gabe here to set the record straight.

The future of blockchain gaming and the metaverse remains hazy. Traditional publishers have been mostly scared away from offering NFTs in their games after massive, violent pushback from players whenever the issue comes up. Blockchain gaming remains its own space mostly occupied by crypto enthusiasts, not core gamers. And as for the metaverse? The main blockchain metaverses probably have no more than 10,000 DAUs combined, less than the top hundred games on Steam. Facebook is pushing for its VR-focused metaverse with Horizon, but few trust them to get it right, and they’ve already run into many privacy and harassment issues there.

The Steam Deck? Now that’s an advancement that’s a much easier sell, PC gaming on the go. And no controversies are erupting as a result.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/02/26/valves-gabe-newell-takes-a-flamethrower-to-the-metaverse-and-nfts/amp/

[Castyles]

Escrito originalmente por Lemonfed:

most countries are not stupid , if they banned or restricted real money lootboxes they're gonna put the same restriction on NFT items once their politiciants understand what NFT are.

Given the fact that most are dinosaurs with limited access to the internet - by choice - it's going to take a long time for something to be done about it.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

I don't think anyone need to turn blind eye, and most wouldn't care if they close market place either.

But he not wrong, and he is looking out for his platform. If you run a shop, you try to avoid accepting counterfeit goods do you not? That the point that is being made.

"Blockchain technology, such as cryptocurrencies and NFTs, are seen as additional monetization routes for video games. Many live-service games offer in-game customization options, such as character skins or other in-game items, which the players can earn and trade with other players using in-game currency. Some games also allow for trading of virtual items using real-world currency, but this may be illegal in some countries where video games are seen as akin to gambling, and has led to gray market issues such as skin gambling, and thus publishers typically have shied away from allowing players to earn real-world funds from games.[1] Blockchain games typically allow players to trade these in-game items for cryptocurrency, which can then be exchanged for money, while avoiding problems associated with gray markets due to blockchain's accountability"

Yeah right................................... Valve and GabeN would never do that. They just turn a blind eye on Skin and Lootcrategambling. Skins arent just like Nft's on this platform where one can profit of it. Are you guys serious ? The EU even fined Valve $9.4M for illegal geo-blocking and they want to take down Lootcrates because it actually promotes gambling for kids. Dont act like they are some benelovent good guys.

Try reading instead of pushing your own motive. No one saying valve not doing things, that just you. Top it off Valve does follows laws for said country, when country bans loot boxes they stop selling future lootboxs in said country.

Geo blocking case has nothing to do with this discussion, not sure why even bring that up or even related to this discussion as this isn't about Geo blocking to begin with.

[Necromancer]

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

"Blockchain technology, such as cryptocurrencies and NFTs, are seen as additional monetization routes for video games. Many live-service games offer in-game customization options, such as character skins or other in-game items, which the players can earn and trade with other players using in-game currency. Some games also allow for trading of virtual items using real-world currency, but this may be illegal in some countries where video games are seen as akin to gambling, and has led to gray market issues such as skin gambling, and thus publishers typically have shied away from allowing players to earn real-world funds from games.[1] Blockchain games typically allow players to trade these in-game items for cryptocurrency, which can then be exchanged for money, while avoiding problems associated with gray markets due to blockchain's accountability"

Yeah right................................... Valve and GabeN would never do that. They just turn a blind eye on Skin and Lootcrategambling. Skins arent just like Nft's on this platform where one can profit of it. Are you guys serious ? The EU even fined Valve $9.4M for illegal geo-blocking and they want to take down Lootcrates because it actually promotes gambling for kids. Dont act like they are some benelovent good guys.

Try reading instead of pushing your own motive. No one saying valve not doing things, that just you. Top it off Valve does follows laws for said country, when country bans loot boxes they stop selling future lootboxs in said country.

Geo blocking case has nothing to do with this discussion, not sure why even bring that up or even related to this discussion as this isn't about Geo blocking to begin with.

My point is that Valve has done alot of scummy things in the past and GabeN as CEO of Valve is responsible for that. He has valid points but he is not the good guy either. He has harmed and introduced certain things to the gaming world that are not good at all for the consumers. And thats why in my opinion hes a hypocrite.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

My point is that Valve has done alot of scummy things in the past and GabeN as CEO of Valve is responsible for that.

And again no one turning a blind eye to begin with, nor even saying they were not doing things either.

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

He has valid points but he is not the good guy either. He has harmed and introduced certain things to the gaming world that are not good at all for the consumers. And thats why in my opinion hes a hypocrite.

Ok, and not the first time anyone in gaming industry has been a hypocrite, Ubisoft, epic, Microsoft, Sony, I can keep listing all have done something, or said something that made them a hypocrite.

[Necromancer]

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

My point is that Valve has done alot of scummy things in the past and GabeN as CEO of Valve is responsible for that.

And again no one turning a blind eye to begin with, nor even saying they were not doing things either.

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

He has valid points but he is not the good guy either. He has harmed and introduced certain things to the gaming world that are not good at all for the consumers. And thats why in my opinion hes a hypocrite.

Ok, and not the first time anyone in gaming industry has been a hypocrite, Ubisoft, epic, Microsoft, Sony, I can keep listing all have done something, or said something that made them a hypocrite.

Why is everyone praising him ? He has done exactly this what we dont want in the gaming industry.
"For years, Valve has been the primary example of in-items having value.

Steam has a “soft” cashout system in which you can sell items for in-store credit to buy other items or Steam games. Then there’s a “hard” cashout in which you use a third-party, external website to sell the item for real-world cash.

Because the soft cashout technically uses “Steam bucks” instead of money, Valve gets to deny it’s a true cashout. Because the third-party websites aren’t Valve-affiliated, it gets to pretend it doesn’t know much about it"

[Castyles]

If the other sites are not affiliated with Valve then Valve has nothing to do with them. Period.

Besides, the skins, hats and even the trading cards don't really hurt anyone legit. They're just a "hand washing another hand". You collect the in-game rewards and use them to acquire another reward: a game. Same with the forum points. A mere courtesy.

They're not a "get rich quick" scam scheme that can destroy men and country alike and comparing the two is naive, at best.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

Why is everyone praising him ? He has done exactly this what we dont want in the gaming industry.
"For years, Valve has been the primary example of in-items having value.

Steam has a “soft” cashout system in which you can sell items for in-store credit to buy other items or Steam games. Then there’s a “hard” cashout in which you use a third-party, external website to sell the item for real-world cash.

Because the soft cashout technically uses “Steam bucks” instead of money, Valve gets to deny it’s a true cashout. Because the third-party websites aren’t Valve-affiliated, it gets to pretend it doesn’t know much about it"

For first part because Valve done things for community that others won't, such as Linux support, forums, customized Library, and other means that people do like, and enjoy. We don't need to turn blind eye for bad things and we're not going to turn blind eye to good things either. Not sure why your so focus on one thing.

For soft, and hard, that been a thing for large range of games, and stores. For soft cash out, don't actually cash out, you covert your money to credit, to whatever, let take warframe as example, same thing wow, don't cash out, but can use the credits to get things in the game which is the point. Hard cash out refer to is what deter most people due to risk, such as fruad, or scams, no one has control what people do outside of their platform, if you sent $50 to someone via money order for game and don't get it, what you expect Steam to do there? No really what did you expect? Same with Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, games that allow trading, and so on, what did you expect when you do outside trading???

[Necromancer]

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

Why is everyone praising him ? He has done exactly this what we dont want in the gaming industry.
"For years, Valve has been the primary example of in-items having value.

Steam has a “soft” cashout system in which you can sell items for in-store credit to buy other items or Steam games. Then there’s a “hard” cashout in which you use a third-party, external website to sell the item for real-world cash.

Because the soft cashout technically uses “Steam bucks” instead of money, Valve gets to deny it’s a true cashout. Because the third-party websites aren’t Valve-affiliated, it gets to pretend it doesn’t know much about it"

For first part because Valve done things for community that others won't, such as Linux support, forums, customized Library, and other means that people do like, and enjoy. We don't need to turn blind eye for bad things and we're not going to turn blind eye to good things either. Not sure why your so focus on one thing.

For soft, and hard, that been a thing for large range of games, and stores. For soft cash out, don't actually cash out, you covert your money to credit, to whatever, let take warframe as example, same thing wow, don't cash out, but can use the credits to get things in the game which is the point. Hard cash out refer to is what deter most people due to risk, such as fruad, or scams, no one has control what people do outside of their platform, if you sent $50 to someone via money order for game and don't get it, what you expect Steam to do there? No really what did you expect? Same with Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, games that allow trading, and so on, what did you expect when you do outside trading???

Valve can put barriers against lootboxgambling and external skin sales on Steam. Not allowing to trade lootboxes,keys, skins for example. But they dont do that because theyre profiting of it. And just because certain gaming companies are not ethical or consumer friendly doesnt mean that Valve has to be the same as them. They can atleast offer an alternative for this BS but they wont even do that.

And the only reason why they have to refund games is because the EU force them to. They really dont care about EU consumer laws and never had for example. The only reason why they comply is because they have to follow it or face an outright EU ban. And Valve wont give up the EU market because its way too valuable for them.

Theyre are many alternatives and they can even be a better company and more consumer friendly but they wont do that. So yes, in my opinion, GabeN isnt the saint of gaming as many people claim him to be.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

Valve can put barriers against lootboxgambling and external skin sales on Steam. Not allowing to trade lootboxes,keys, skins for example. But they dont do that because theyre profiting of it. And just because certain gaming companies are not ethical or consumer friendly doesnt mean that Valve has to be the same as them. They can atleast offer an alternative for this BS but they wont even do that.

AFAIK they offer skins via in-game shop you can buy directly for somethings, or can do lootbox buying keys as it your choice.

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

And the only reason why they have to refund games is because the EU force them to.

EU didn't force them, AU did, and AU has nothing to do with EU in that case.

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

They really dont care about EU consumer laws and never had for example. The only reason why they comply is because they have to follow it or face an outright EU ban. And Valve wont give up the EU market because its way too valuable for them.

Theyre are many alternatives and they can even be a better company and more consumer friendly but they wont do that. So yes, in my opinion, GabeN isnt the saint of gaming as many people claim him to be.

Every company has to follow said country, or region laws when setting up shop in said country, or region, why EA not being talked about??? The ones that got charged multiple times in a row for same lootbox ban issue for said country remember that? Anyways lootbox is not illegal in EU, and Valve isn't only ones doing lootboxes.

[Necromancer]

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

Valve can put barriers against lootboxgambling and external skin sales on Steam. Not allowing to trade lootboxes,keys, skins for example. But they dont do that because theyre profiting of it. And just because certain gaming companies are not ethical or consumer friendly doesnt mean that Valve has to be the same as them. They can atleast offer an alternative for this BS but they wont even do that.

AFAIK they offer skins via in-game shop you can buy directly for somethings, or can do lootbox buying keys as it your choice.

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

And the only reason why they have to refund games is because the EU force them to.

EU didn't force them, AU did, and AU has nothing to do with EU in that case.

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

They really dont care about EU consumer laws and never had for example. The only reason why they comply is because they have to follow it or face an outright EU ban. And Valve wont give up the EU market because its way too valuable for them.

Theyre are many alternatives and they can even be a better company and more consumer friendly but they wont do that. So yes, in my opinion, GabeN isnt the saint of gaming as many people claim him to be.

Every company has to follow said country, or region laws, why EA not being talked about??? The ones that got charged multiple times in a row for same lootbox ban issue for said country remember that? Anyways lootbox is not illegal in EU, and Valve isn't only ones doing lookboxes.

EU law says you have a 14 day no questions asked refund right. Lootboxes are illegal in Belgium and the Netherlands. And Valve had to ban them in those countries. Gambling laws are mostly made by nations and not the EU in general. Most nations in the EU dont ban them thats right. NFT's arent illegal either so Valve can legally introduce it to Steam. My point is that GabeN knows about the lootbox, skin and so on problems. He called NFT's and so on get rich quick schemes but lootboxes, skins arent ? Come on man. Its mostly about ones company ethical behaviour. And i dont talk about EA because we all know that theyre one of the most unethical and consumer unfriendly company in the business.

[Yavin Shikanoko]

Can someone tell this poor smooth brain coyote what does all of this means?

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

EU law says you have a 14 day no questions asked refund right.

And what the problem?
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/369C-3E9F-76FD-DEDA

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

Lootboxes are illegal in Belgium and the Netherlands. And Valve had to ban them in those countries.

And they're not being sold in those counties, so Is that a problem for you, or what?

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

Gambling laws are mostly made by nations and not the EU in general. Most nations in the EU dont ban them thats right. NFT's arent illegal either so Valve can legally introduce it to Steam.

And? What the problem? Valve could switch their system if they really want, but they don't have to, nor have to support NFT, or crypto, and if they don't feel comfortable dealing with them they don't have to, so I can't see that being a problem, unless that a problem for you, or no?

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

My point is that GabeN knows about the lootbox, skin and so on problems.

We know, we didn't turn blind eye to anything, how many times does this need to be said?

Escrito originalmente por Draxos:

He called NFT's and so on get rich quick schemes but lootboxes, skins arent ? Come on man. Its mostly about ones company ethical behaviour. And i dont talk about EA because we all know that theyre one of the most unethical and consumer unfriendly company in the business.

He said "There's a bunch of get rich quick schemes around metaverse." Go re-read the blog mate you're mixing things up it seems what being said.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Escrito originalmente por Yavin Coyote ur dad best friend:

Can someone tell this poor smooth brain coyote what does all of this means?

Means he doesn't like when wall street boys slapping term metaverse on bunch of things that not really metaversa, and he doesn't trust crypto, or NFT due to some issues that been going on such as money laundering, or etc.

[Yavin Shikanoko]

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Escrito originalmente por Yavin Coyote ur dad best friend:

Can someone tell this poor smooth brain coyote what does all of this means?

Means he doesn't like when wall street boys slapping term metaverse on bunch of things, and he doesn't trust crypto, or NFT due to some issues that been going on such as money laundering, or etc.

Wtf i love gaben even more now

[Necromancer]

https://www.pcgamer.com/steam-might-not-like-nfts-but-it-laid-the-groundwork-for-them/#comment-jump

"Steam might not like NFTs, but it laid the groundwork for them"

"Steam has an inherent goodwill among PC gamers, but it's a goodwill that's allowed them to avoid criticism for things like popularising loot boxes with TF2 crates"

In my opinion hes a hypocrite exactly because of that.