Souls-like games: What's the appeal?

[Grey Dragon]

I been playing games for a very long time and I tend to choose higher difficulty levels on the older games that I've played, such as Quake or the original Devil May Cry. I tend to favour action games, FPS games, arcade-style shmups and the occasional platformer. Souls-like games look appealing to me and have some interesting ideas in them, but the brutal level of difficulty has always put me off from playing them for any significant length of time.

I'm not here to moan, I genuinely want to know what other gamers get out of this. I have tried out the updated version of the original Dark Souls, but it wasn't long after the first boss that I found myself being repeatedly humiliated by skeleton soldiers. At this point I put the game aside for later examination. I also tried Bloodborne, but after beating Father Gascoigne, I deleted the game from my hard drive. The battle was intensely frustrating and winning felt like a hollow victory, as it simply wasn't worth the grief I'd had to go through.

For those of you who play Souls-likes, what is it that you enjoy? How do you contain the frustration these games can generate? What keeps you going when the battle starts to feel hopeless? I genuinely want to know why these games seem to appeal to so many when they seem designed solely for elite gamers.

[Electric Cupcake]

I have never encountered anyone who could adequately explain what "souls-like" means.

[Grey Dragon]

Souls-like games tend to be action games with a very high level of difficulty and a more strategic style of combat compared to other action games, requiring you to learn your enemy's behaviour and develop tactics to counter it, rather than just rushing in and hacking away. They also usually feature environment-based storytelling, with item descriptions, books, notes and even the level designs themselves serving to teach you about the setting and your place in it.

[Electric Cupcake]

Originally posted by Grey Dragon:

Souls-like games tend to be action games with a very high level of difficulty and a more strategic style of combat compared to other action games, requiring you to learn your enemy's behaviour and develop tactics to counter it. They also usually feature environment-based storytelling, with item descriptions, books, notes and even the level designs themselves serving to teach you about the setting and your place in it.

That's stupid So it really should be called "Resident Evil-like" or "Devil May Cry-like?"

Heck, Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha did it before.

[Grey Dragon]

Originally posted by ZootsIdenticalTwinSisterDingo:

That's stupid So it really should be called "Resident Evil-like" or "Devil May Cry-like?"

Heck, Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha did it before.

Not really. In Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha, quick reflexes and aggressive play tend to work best. Trying this in Dark Souls leads to quick defeat. Instead, you have approach each situation carefully, observing your enemies and attacking only when you have an opening.

As survival horror games, the Resident Evil series has an entirely different approach to pacing and combat, requiring you to manage limited resources and pick your fights with care. In Dark Souls, resources are not really the problem. Its the fact that even the lowliest grunt can make short work of you if they catch you off guard.

[Morphic]

For me it's the challenge, exploration and build customization. The games typically give you a barebones tutorial and expect you to figure everything else out on your own. There's little or no handholding. Often times a lot of the game world is easily accessible from the "Hub" and you are free to explore, if you can survive. Player Skill is a must but you can compensate by grinding or making an optimal Build. E.g. the Dark Souls games have what's known as a "Gauge Build" where you maximize your HP and Stamina and upgrade only 1 single preferred weapon. This is usually a newb friendly build that can easily beat New Game but falls off in NG+.

When it comes to frustration... I either "git gud" and win or I don't and go grind or try a different area. For example, Dark Souls 1 has Skeletons/Graveyard right on top of Firelink Shrine. They pretty much 1 shot low level characters and are very difficult for newbies. Instead of simply going "okay so, clearly, I'm not meant to be here yet." people often complain and keep trying to fight them instead of exploring other areas or farming easy mobs to get some levels. Granted, for some people they encounter a situation where "everything is too hard!" because they have trouble with the "intended area" and all the other areas are even harder... so there's nowhere for them to go.

Personally, after starting with Demon's Souls and playing everything to Sekiro and Nioh... I think Nioh is the "best" game of the genre. It is the most newb friendly and features multiple difficulty levels. (Default difficulty is the easiest) Granted it lacks the "Open World" exploration of the Dark Souls games but, IMO, the instanced areas make for better flow and give you guaranteed XP/Gold/Items just from completing them. The combat is faster paced, so it can seem overwhelming... but once you get the hang of it, I feel it better than Dark Souls. Plus there's a lot of options for "cowardly" type players that like playing it safe majority of the time.

EDIT: Also, I too, hate how toxic the communities are and how elitist attitude most fans have. There are instances where "git gud" is the only solution and advice you can give.... However, many newbies are just overly frustrated and are missing key mechanics or understanding on how to play.

[Electric Cupcake]

Originally posted by Grey Dragon:

Originally posted by ZootsIdenticalTwinSisterDingo:

That's stupid So it really should be called "Resident Evil-like" or "Devil May Cry-like?"

Heck, Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha did it before.

Not really. In Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha, quick reflexes and aggressive play tend to work best. Trying this in Dark Souls leads to quick defeat. Instead, you have approach each situation carefully, observing your enemies and attacking only when you have an opening.

As survival horror games, the Resident Evil series has an entirely different approach to pacing and combat, requiring you to manage limited resources and pick your fights with care. In Dark Souls, resources are not really the problem. Its the fact that even the lowliest grunt can make short work of you if they catch you off guard.

You never played DMC and NG at higher difficulties. Being too aggressive against a Tairon trooper or Nobody will get your butt fed to you pretty quickly.

[Grey Dragon]

I have actually beaten Devil May Cry at the Dante Must Die difficulty level and can definitely say that Dark Souls was a very different experience.

[Brimzel]

Originally posted by Grey Dragon:

For those of you who play Souls-likes, what is it that you enjoy? How do you contain the frustration these games can generate? What keeps you going when the battle starts to feel hopeless? I genuinely want to know why these games seem to appeal to so many when they seem designed solely for elite gamers.

I dunno, I just never get frustated in any game, except maybe those almost pixel perfect and precise inputs platformers, but those just make me sad at how bad I am. When the battle starts to feel hopeless, I just know I'm doing something wrong and I keep practicing.

I like Dark Souls for many reasons, including the gameplay, the challenge, the music, the beautiful environments, some of the boss designs, different weapons and armor you could use (Or just go buck naked as I sometimes do). Not many games manage to get my heart to beat so fast, like trying to take that 1% left in the boss's health.

I finished all the Dark Souls games (except Dark Souls 1, stopped somewhere after the smough and ornstein fight), and I don't really consider myself an elite gamer.

[Grey Dragon]

Originally posted by Cosmic Kitten:

I dunno, I just never get frustated in any game, except maybe those almost pixel perfect and precise inputs platformers, but those just make me sad at how bad I am. When the battle starts to feel hopeless, I just know I'm doing something wrong and I keep practicing.

I like Dark Souls for many reasons, including the gameplay, the challenge, the music, the beautiful environments, some of the boss designs, different weapons and armor you could use (Or just go buck naked as I sometimes do). Not many games manage to get my heart to beat so fast, like trying to take that 1% left in the boss's health.

I finished all the Dark Souls games (except Dark Souls 1, stopped somewhere after the smough and ornstein fight), and I don't really consider myself an elite gamer.

It sounds to me like you are naturally calm and slow to anger, at least when it comes to games. Perhaps that is one kind of gamer that From Software is trying to appeal to. I will admit I have some anger management issues and tend to get angry and depressed when a game pushes me hard. I envy your calm.

In Dark Souls, I was always left ashamed at just how angry the game had made me.

[Phirestar]

For me, the appeal of the Soulsborne games comes from how detailed their worlds are, and in that, how much they provide a sense of true wonder and discovery. There aren’t a whole lot of games out there that make exploration and feel as great as it does in one of FromSoft’s titles.

The reception will vary for the individual, but I personally didn’t find frustration to be a turn-off. This is a result of the lesson that I learned while playing through the original Dark Souls for the first time. That lesson was that I’d been given the tools necessary to get through the area, and it was up to me to figure out how to progress. More to the point, there’s a ton of available resources to take advantage of: consumables, ranged options, shields (if you’re not playing Bloodborne or Sekiro, at least). There’s nothing to suggest the experience is intentionally unfair, or requires a specific strategy to win, and thus it provides a sense of legitimacy to the challenge.

There is definitely something to be said about how overblown and misinformed the conversation about the difficulty is, as well. Despite discussions on forums or comment sections will have you believe, I know for a fact that there are many hardcore fans who will tell you that they actually dislike the way that Bandai Namco have marketed solely on the dumb tag line of ‘Prepare to Die’. It’s frankly an insult to the excellent design that makes the games truly memorable.


The best argument I feel I could make for why so many love the games is: they’re designed to cater to a particular niche, and they do so very well. Like the lead designer has stated in interviews, the goal is to give players a sense of accomplishment for overcoming those tough odds. And the rewards for tackling those obstacles ties it together: the worlds that’re hidden behind them. For some that might mean getting to see the next boss, as they found the last to be intriguing and exilerating to fight, while for others it’s the desire to find the next item that will give them a scrap of lore that further pieces together the full story of the world. There’s many individual characteristics that people like, so you could ask around for other inputs. But the fact that you die a lot is rarely, if ever, the sole reason.

[The Smoking Gun (TFP).]

Souls like games? Half the fun is that it doesn't have a easy mode? The other half is rolling around with a small health bar.

[HALO_run]

Originally posted by Grey Dragon:

Originally posted by ZootsIdenticalTwinSisterDingo:

That's stupid So it really should be called "Resident Evil-like" or "Devil May Cry-like?"

Heck, Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha did it before.

Not really. In Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha, quick reflexes and aggressive play tend to work best. Trying this in Dark Souls leads to quick defeat. Instead, you have approach each situation carefully, observing your enemies and attacking only when you have an opening.

As survival horror games, the Resident Evil series has an entirely different approach to pacing and combat, requiring you to manage limited resources and pick your fights with care. In Dark Souls, resources are not really the problem. Its the fact that even the lowliest grunt can make short work of you if they catch you off guard.

im guessing you never played ninja gaidin, because you can take a slow Approach,and the weakest of ai can still kill in that game

heck you can do that with any game, dark souls isn't didn't do anything new, apart from for it did pvp and coop, and got it's rep from bugs,and hackers

[🦜Cloud Boy🦜]

i don't like Dark Souls or souls like games. Because bosses don't have any pattern that you learn like Devil May Cry and other Hack and Slash games. Bosses will just approach you and attack you, some attacks are total 360 degree that you can't avoid hit. Then you have to roll roll and more roll. And drink life potions in every minutes. That's how you survive. Dark Souls are rolling simulator.

[HALO_run]

Originally posted by 🌈Cloud Boy🌈:

i don't like Dark Souls or souls like games. Because bosses don't have any pattern that you learn like Devil May Cry and other Hack and Slash games. Bosses will just approach you and attack you, some attacks are total 360 degree that you can't avoid hit. Then you have to roll roll and more roll. And drink life potions in every minutes. That's how you survive. Dark Souls are rolling simulator.

the thing is they all have a pattern, they don't always do the same thing when you see em, but they have a pattern, i've done all 3 ds games and even things you can't block, or may seem like they can't be, can in fact be

still that's not to say i didn't have a hard time playing ds1 for the 1st time mostly do to the keybroad and mouse bug, [made me die so meany times]

[Polverrati]

For me, once I got past the frustration and learned how to play the "brutal difficulty" was non-existent. The games really aren't that hard outside of a few areas and bosses, you just have to know how to build a character and learn the combat system.

Not that there aren't things in the series that are just plain ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, a good chunk of the DS2 DLC have a ton of artificial difficulty and whoever designed The Bed of Chaos is just evil.