Good car under 20K?

[Captain n00by]

So I decided I will go a bit more conservative with the budget for new car, as we live in uncertain times.

Although Beemers/Mercs/Alfas/Porsches are tempting, I feel I would have too much expenses with them.

So I decided for something more rational - a compact car for a fair price.

So now I'm looking at things like Clio, 208, Polo, Giulietta.

Any suggestions or recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

Tbh most toyota cars pre 2018 and post 2010 are pretty decent. They're like the logitech of cars. Get one maintain it and don't drive like a nascar driver and it can last you for years to come.

Very fuel efficient. ♥♥♥♥ this prius bs. Chances are nowadays gas is less expensive than water for several circumstances.

[Captain n00by]

Cute Loli Vampire of Christmas님이 먼저 게시:

Tbh most toyota cars pre 2018 and post 2010 are pretty decent. They're like the logitech of cars. Get one maintain it and don't drive like a nascar driver and it can last you for years to come.

Very fuel efficient. ♥♥♥♥ this prius bs. Chances are nowadays gas is less expensive than water for several circumstances.

So what's a good Toyota then?

I'm looking at Honda Civic and it seems pretty cool.

Are Japanese cars reliable?

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

n00by님이 먼저 게시:

Cute Loli Vampire of Christmas님이 먼저 게시:

Tbh most toyota cars pre 2018 and post 2010 are pretty decent. They're like the logitech of cars. Get one maintain it and don't drive like a nascar driver and it can last you for years to come.

Very fuel efficient. ♥♥♥♥ this prius bs. Chances are nowadays gas is less expensive than water for several circumstances.

So what's a good Toyota then?

I'm looking at Honda Civic at it seems pretty cool.

Are Japanese cars reliable?

Yes
And
Yes very much so

[Tiberius]

Cute Loli Vampire of Christmas님이 먼저 게시:

Tbh most toyota cars pre 2018 and post 2010 are pretty decent. They're like the logitech of cars. Get one maintain it and don't drive like a nascar driver and it can last you for years to come.

Very fuel efficient. ♥♥♥♥ this prius bs. Chances are nowadays gas is less expensive than water for several circumstances.

Wait why are you hating prius? Cant handle my soylent green car?

[MinionJoe]

n00by님이 먼저 게시:

So what's a good Toyota then?

I'm looking at Honda Civic and it seems pretty cool.

Are Japanese cars reliable?

Can't say on the newer models, but I've helped a friend maintain their Toyota Camry. It was fairly easy to work on and parts were cheap. And the 1990 Honda/Acura Integra I owned stood up to unspeakable abuse. Honda motors are generally bullet-proof so long as you change the oil and perform regular maintenance on them.

I highly recommend getting a Chiltons, Hayes, or a shop repair manual for whatever car you eventually choose. It will save you a lot of money on repairs and maintenance if you can do most of it yourself. That said, VW does not allow the publication of any user repair manuals for any model after the 2011 production year. So keep that in mind if you look at a VW.

[Captain n00by]

Beetle is an option too, although they don't make new ones anymore

https://cchintegrator.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/flower-power.jpg

[WaitandSee]

When it comes to Japanese Cars, avoid ones with a CVT like the plague, that slightly better fuel economy might look good on the sticker, but when something goes wrong, the whole box needs to be replaced, not even the Transmission Oil will be changed by the dealer mechanics.

Push-Belt CVT's transfer power through two variable diameter sheeves with a metal belt between them, a low duty torque converter acts as a fluid clutch (Unlike in a regular planetary type automatic, the torque converter carries minimum duty and can't multiply torque without risking damage to the transmission), the ratios are constantly changing based on your acceleration or cruise speed, the ratios are changed by the input and output sheeves changing their diameter infinitely between about + 5.0 and 0.55 (First being reduction, second being overdrive). While this is a good idea on paper, it is often very poorly executed. The Nissan-Jatco X-Tronic CVT is known to be among the worst out there, they have about ten belts of flexible steel held together with thousands of retaining pins (elements), having a steel belt that transmits the power of your vehicle that also has to constantly flex is just such a bad idea from a mechanical frame of mind, when these systems fail, they go out in a process called "Grenading", as when the belt snaps, the thousands of elements go flying out inside the box and ricochet around.

Compared to "Regular" type automatic (Planetary or Epicyclic type), these have very suspect lifespans and are very vulnerable to the driver, traction loss then the sudden reacquisition of traction will cause a sudden shock to be transferred straight down the driveline into that belt, and when you've got a metal belt riding on metal sheeves, that sudden shock can cause a metal on metal contact to occur irrepairably damaging both components, this would likely become significantly more of a risk later on in the life of the vehicle due to the oil losing lubricity due to no dealers replacing the oil. All CVT manufacturers say their boxes are "Sealed for Life" units with "Lifetime Fluid", which is complete BS, as oil gets hot, it's going to break down, the hydrocarbon bonds will break down and the oil will degrade. They CAN change the oil on them, but they don't, I've seen Subaru CVT's having their oil drained and flushed, it's a very difficult process that requires pumps and about fifteen litres of Subaru CVTF which can cost hundreds of dollars per litre.

The Modus Operandi for all CVT vehicles is, if it fails, replace the whole transmission. They have no serviceable parts inside, they will also do their best to blame you for "Driving it wrong" or "Driving it too hard" when it breaks. Like if you buy an AWD or any Subaru with a CVT, you have AWD and in the case of a Subaru, they're advertised as "Go Anywhere" vehicles, yet if you drive it offroad, you're causing significant stress on the CVT and if it fails, they will blame you entirely making you pay the $10-11000 AUD replacement cost.

Regular Automatics use proper solid epicyclic/planetary gearsets with clutchpacks and a higher duty torque converter (With Lockup on Mazda and higher end Toyota and ZF), these when made by Mazda, Aisin-Seiki/Aisin-Warner, Toyota, the old Subaru 4EAT and 5EAT or ZF-Friedrichshafen are bulletproof, properly designed automatic transmissions will handle almost anything you can throw at them without failure, but CVT's became mainstream in Japan due to stricter emissions and fuel economy regulation, but most importantly, they are much cheaper and quicker to manufacture than a traditional auto which is the main reason.

You're also much better off getting the most modern car you can possibly acquire, after reading the 2020 Australian Used Car Safety Rating done by the Monash University Accident Research Centre, give this a squiz https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/downloads/ucsr-2020.pdf

I would also avoid small turbocharged engines, these new "Downsized" engines you see these days, like 1.6 Turbo motors. They are designed to run on 91 Octane Petrol (Australia uses RON, Research Octane Number, your system may be different depending on where you are), the problem with running a turbocharged motor on low grade fuel is piston temperature, under high pressure and high temperature, the 91 octane fuel can detonate too early causing engine knock (Meaning the fuel is detonating incorrectly, either too early or the flamefront not being caused by the spark plug) which is catastrophic for a motor. Small Turbocharged engines get around this by using excessive amounts of fuel on injection to use the phase change of the fuel from liquid to vapour to absorb heat from the pistol to cool it down. This wastes a significant amount of fuel though, especially on acceleration, which can often exceed larger GDI naturally aspirated motors. Although during highway cruising, these small motors can get very good fuel economy, which is largely reflected in their Fuel Economy Scores using the EPA/NEDC method. Urban fuel economy is often poorer than the comparison.

[< Masterless >]

Why get a new car when you can get a used yet still reliable car that's still low in km's and for a much cheaper price. You could get an off-road ex-service military vehicle for a cheaper price than the latest expenses of having a factory new car!

[Captain n00by]

Is this a good deal?

https://www.avto.net/Ads/details.asp?id=16009709&display=Mercedes-Benz%20CL-Razred%20CL%2063%20AMG%20Avt.

Yeah, the repair bill will be outrageous, but it's a Benz...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJILfSzEb9k

[Vaxen]

Peel P50

[MinionJoe]

n00by님이 먼저 게시:

Is this a good deal?

Welcome back!

You're absolutely right that repair bills on a Mercedes (esp a newer model) is going to be very expensive. Most of the YouTube car channels I watch tend to not keep any Mercedes for very long because of this.

Too, that's a bit more than the 20K you originally quoted. Has your budget gone up? Because that may open up so me better options that weren't mentioned previously.

Edit: Checked on the price point and $25k Euros is a bit higher than similar models in my area (which go for around $30k). Especially for a 2006 model of "Slav origin".

[Captain n00by]

MinionJoe님이 먼저 게시:

n00by님이 먼저 게시:

Is this a good deal?

Welcome back!

You're absolutely right that repair bills on a Mercedes (esp a newer model) is going to be very expensive. Most of the YouTube car channels I watch tend to not keep any Mercedes for very long because of this.

Too, that's a bit more than the 20K you originally quoted. Has your budget gone up? Because that may open up so me better options that weren't mentioned previously.

I'm still trying to keep conservative but I don't mind going a bit over that if the quality is there.

I was eyeing some Mazda SUVs recently too, which is odd considering I dislike SUVs, but the CX-30 looks rather good and doesn't cost that much either (around 22K EUR).

[TheBadHOI4Player]

Hyundai Sonota

[MinionJoe]

n00by님이 먼저 게시:

I was eyeing some Mazda SUVs recently too, which is odd considering I dislike SUVs, but the CX-30 looks rather good and doesn't cost that much either (around 22K EUR).

I'm a huge fan of Mazda, so take my advice on them with a grain of salt.

My partner and I test drove a CX-5 a year ago (along with a VW Tiguan). I thought they were OK, but a lot of the newer SUVs are going with an electric brake system that I really don't like.

The CX-30 is going to be a little smaller. A lot of Mazda models share chassis with Ford products (sa my Mazda 3 and a Ford Focus are similar), so parts and repairs should be a lot more affordable.

[Kamiyama]

Crazed Rabbit님이 먼저 게시:

damn and I thought under 5k was conservative

Seriously. Later this year I will be looking for a nice used car in the 8 grand (US) range. I want something that will be reliable and will last longer than the auto loan I'll need to get it.

By "nice" I mean it starts up and drives. I don't care about luxury. It would be nice if the AC worked but that's not a requirement.

I was looking at new cars a few years ago and it's ridiculous. A display in the front panel, rear end camera for backing up, heated seats, ipod dock. Satellite radio and GPS. How much of that price tag is electronics that I could live without? I just need transportation.

I don't think anyone makes a basic transportation car anymore. At least not for sale in the USA.