Are high prices and shortage of graphics cards ruining PC gaming?

[Captain n00by]

Everything is overpriced and poorly stocked nowadays, will it hurt PC gaming a lot in the long run?

Only solution I see is the iGPU market becoming more viable, with Intel and AMD providing better cost-efficient "APU" solutions.

Currently, consoles offer much better "bang for buck", hardware-wise.

[🍋 Lemonfed 🍋]

these days even games that where built to run on 5 or 6 years old hardwares look good , peoples are spoiled when it's come to graphics.

[eqalidan]

Oprindeligt skrevet af WhiteKnight:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Serena <3:

I feel like a scarier trend brought upon by these shortages is streaming-based solutions (Stadia, etc.) overtaking both PC and console gaming altogether.

Well i don't mind a streaming services with how expensive everything is.

say good bye to any games that require any among of precision, racing games are a bit one that its noticeable with that are pretty much unplayable streaming.

[🍋 Lemonfed 🍋]

Last time I checked it was also hard to get a PS5 and a lot's of online store here only shown the Variant of the new Xbox that don't have a Disk Drive as available ... series S I think.

[Tiberius]

The question is whether the price for next gen will return to normal or not. Few years ago, 10xx price was driven up by crypto demand. Gpu manufacturer saw it as an opportunity and decide to keep the price high for next gen gpu. Looking at how willing ppl are to buy at inflated price, i can see they will do the same again for next gen card

[secuda]

Not really, i wouldent say so, due to console have always been a stepp behind pc in term of hardware. becide most of us gamers have allready a decent gpu that can play most games,. and is only handicapped/missing out the system when it comes to newer feutres and higher settings on newer released games.

[eqalidan]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Tiberius:

The question is whether the price for next gen will return to normal or not. Few years ago, 10xx price was driven up by crypto demand. Gpu manufacturer saw it as an opportunity and decide to keep the price high for next gen gpu. Looking at how willing ppl are to buy at inflated price, i can see they will do the same again for next gen card

both tsmc price hike due to the shortage and the tariff are both still in place, this will see cards across the board effectively msrp 100-150$ higher than what they are currently set at. nvidia has 0 incentive to lower the price, and amd isn't playing the 'good product at lower price' game anymore so they will follow nvidia.

[【K A M I N A】]

I'm holding onto my 1070 until I can actually purchase a new video card.

So far it's okay because most current gen games are cross gen. They aren't even pushing the games to their limits because of the shortage.

[eqalidan]

Oprindeligt skrevet af 【K A M I N A】 🍆:

I'm holding onto my 1070 until I can actually purchase a new video card.

So far it's okay because most current gen games are cross gen. They aren't even pushing the games to their limits because of the shortage.

in all honesty the next thing that will push games is going to be storage, not really the gpu, as much as we like to hope for it, raytraceing in real time is in its infancy and currently we are able to fake effects that get us indistinguishable in best cases, and good enough in worst cases performance. you are likely to see consoles adopt more pc like faking the effects, thus an increase for them graphically, while pc stagnates a bit, but storage will be the big place the consoles push that will require serious upgrades to pcs to keep up.

[gugnihr]

Some people think too much about advanced graphics.
Some games are MEANT to look horrible, some war games expecially realistic ones or some horror games of the kind that does not want to be evocative or fascinating but only disturbing, depressing and disgusting, or certain sci-fi games too, locations in those games are often ugly, filthy, depressing and so on... and in certain periods games of this kind have become very popular and trendy so the market was flooded with this kind of games, and they look horrile because they are meant to look horrible, but technically graphics "must" be top notch anyway.
If you make me look at an ugly setting full of filth and crap I don't care how "good" the graphic is (well, actually I just don't play this kind of games) because it sucks anyway.
I don't think that a game necessarily needs the most advanced graphic technology to look good, today modern GPUs are so advanced that most games could look absolutely gorgeous even with much older specs.
I have started playing again Soul Calibur 3 recently and I was amazed at how absolutely wonderful its graphics still is today.
But the market needs to convince people that only the most advanced games don't look completely awful because otherwise it would me much harder to sell new products.
I think that gaming would be better if game developers and producers cared more about how actually good games look, from an aesthetical point of view, instead of always trying to push new hardware so much even when they make games that DO NOT look good and WOULD NOT look good anyway.

[WaitandSee]

It's not only slamming the PC gaming industry, automotive is also under heavy strain as most of these microcontrollers are made by the same manufacturers on the same fab processes that are in demand by other electronics and electronic-containing machines.

Toyota's strategic reserve of microcontrollers they saved up for this exact scenario ran out a month or so ago causing backlogs for popular models reaching between eight to twelve months in Australia. Other manufacturers' like Kia and Hyundai are deleting functions like Keyless Entry, Push-Button Start and with some manufacturers, they're going back to analog dash clusters to reduce microcontroller demand.

The high prices of graphics accelerators have been greatly amplified by the scalping along with supplier and manufacturers increasing prices, the average asking price on the manufacturer side has been increasing greatly year over year, greatly ahead of the performance and inflation rises, this supply shortage has just allowed them to solidify these increased prices behind the justification of supply and demand.

On a different note, modern graphics accelerators have really dropped the ball on efficiency with some of these high-end units using as much electricity as split-system refrigeration air conditioner. Combine that with how thirsty modern i7 and i9 processors are, the i9 10900k being able to exceed 320 watts of electricity and the i9 11900k being able to exceed 270 watts (Two cores less than the 10900k) when violating intel's Tau at the motherboard manufacturers' discretion. Having a high-end graphics and processor can use truly eyewatering amounts of power, almost as much as my own bedroom split-system when under maximum heating or cooling load.

[Jej]

Meanwhile I'm still using my GTX 950 and managed to finish resource demanding games such as Cyberpunk 2077 with little to no issues.

Granted I had to tone the settings way down for some of these games but I never really cared about graphical fidelity. If a game works then I'm happy to play it.

[Cyberzex]

People who have allot of money or Fµçkit money are making things worse as well. Allot of new younger generation with allot of money or wealthy family want to be streamers and don't care if a GPU is double or triple the money it should be so allot more people than ever just pay the crazy prices which makes companies more likely to keep increasing them since they sell. The whole vote with your wallet idea is not going to work cause too many people will still pay and lack discipline, patience or don't care. More will give in as a result when the they realize waiting for prices to go down won't happen or it will take years at which point the next gen products start to come out.

[eqalidan]

Oprindeligt skrevet af gugnihr:

Some people think too much about advanced graphics.
Some games are MEANT to look horrible, some war games expecially realistic ones or some horror games of the kind that does not want to be evocative or fascinating but only disturbing, depressing and disgusting, or certain sci-fi games too, locations in those games are often ugly, filthy, depressing and so on... and in certain periods games of this kind have become very popular and trendy so the market was flooded with this kind of games, and they look horrile because they are meant to look horrible, but technically graphics "must" be top notch anyway.
If you make me look at an ugly setting full of filth and crap I don't care how "good" the graphic is (well, actually I just don't play this kind of games) because it sucks anyway.
I don't think that a game necessarily needs the most advanced graphic technology to look good, today modern GPUs are so advanced that most games could look absolutely gorgeous even with much older specs.
I have started playing again Soul Calibur 3 recently and I was amazed at how absolutely wonderful its graphics still is today.
But the market needs to convince people that only the most advanced games don't look completely awful because otherwise it would me much harder to sell new products.
I think that gaming would be better if game developers and producers cared more about how actually good games look, from an aesthetical point of view, instead of always trying to push new hardware so much even when they make games that DO NOT look good and WOULD NOT look good anyway.

soul calibur, or any fighting game, is not a great reference point as they typically sink an entire systems graphics budget into 2 characters and render the background with whats left.

but yea, games at the late ps2 era were more or less there graphically, personally increase the resolution of almost any game and give it a modern texture size and I couldn't complain.

aesthetics, look at nintendo post n64, I think some n64 games CAN hold up, but most are FAR to limited in textures that its jarring no matter what. but nintendo is the aesthetics company, the mario galaxy blown up to 1080p or 4k, it looks like it could have come out today. but this takes a tallented art team, not just people who can make something look 'real' to pull off.

Oprindeligt skrevet af WaitandSee:

It's not only slamming the PC gaming industry, automotive is also under heavy strain as most of these microcontrollers are made by the same manufacturers on the same fab processes that are in demand by other electronics and electronic-containing machines.

Toyota's strategic reserve of microcontrollers they saved up for this exact scenario ran out a month or so ago causing backlogs for popular models reaching between eight to twelve months in Australia. Other manufacturers' like Kia and Hyundai are deleting functions like Keyless Entry, Push-Button Start and with some manufacturers, they're going back to analog dash clusters to reduce microcontroller demand.

The high prices of graphics accelerators have been greatly amplified by the scalping along with supplier and manufacturers increasing prices, the average asking price on the manufacturer side has been increasing greatly year over year, greatly ahead of the performance and inflation rises, this supply shortage has just allowed them to solidify these increased prices behind the justification of supply and demand.

On a different note, modern graphics accelerators have really dropped the ball on efficiency with some of these high-end units using as much electricity as split-system refrigeration air conditioner. Combine that with how thirsty modern i7 and i9 processors are, the i9 10900k being able to exceed 320 watts of electricity and the i9 11900k being able to exceed 270 watts (Two cores less than the 10900k) when violating intel's Tau at the motherboard manufacturers' discretion. Having a high-end graphics and processor can use truly eyewatering amounts of power, almost as much as my own bedroom split-system when under maximum heating or cooling load.

they are made on literally the oldest, worst fabs that are still running, the automotive industry runs on 'just in time' manufacturing, and the crap happening made just in time non viable.

as for the price hikes, look at the nvidia 600 seriese where they sold a mid range silicon at high end prices, that was the end for ever getting a good priced mid range gpu ever again. currently I dont know the actual price of their silicon, based on die size, the 960 was 227mm at 200$, and the 3060 is 276mm at 330$, on a node that isn't end of life pricing, however the 970 was 398mm at 330$ and the 3070 is 392mm at 500$

there is some amount of inflation, sure, the silicon isnt on an old node, ok, but that price is just unreasonable for what is a mid range gpu.

that said 2 things will bring price down, once the shortage is over, and it will be in time, and once we move to larger wafer sizes again, though i'm not sure when/if that will roll out. that would double each wafers capacity, and since fountrys work on wafter cost and not part cost, it would effectively halve the cost of silicon.

[Amuro0079]

Oprindeligt skrevet af karmazyn1:

No shortage of CPUs ! And mobos ! GPU shortages are real though. One day people who wait for stock will get lucky, gotta stop the scalpers though.

There was shortage for high-end CPUs. I was so ready to go AMD this time and was waiting almost a year for a 5950x and there's finally stock now at MSRP, but it's a little too late because Intel's Alder Lake is coming out very soon. Guess I'll be sticking with Intel after all.

[xX_enzodu13_Xx]

meh
manufacturers are selling their consoles at a loss
they make the money back on their 60€ games and expensive multiplayer membership