what would it take to make a game like skyrim or fallout fully detailed and immersive or is there no way to achieve this or isn't it at all useful to having no point?

[WhispersOfTheWind]

I was wondering about the title, the way I see it, having a (large or even huge) game world populated would perhaps bring another level to the immersion factor where if you play games today from Skyrim which already feels 'bald' or 'bland' if you will to Fallout 4 which is more detailed but still not at a level where it feels like a real place to a game like Stalker or more precisely Metro series (at least far as 2033 and last light are concerned IMHO) which have this sort of world building aspect better covered then the two aforementioned games but I see a game like Skyrim having so much more potential then what it is. (another game that does worldbuilding well to a certain extent is Rage I think but that game is linear or not really open world)

More potential like a Fallout 3/NV/4 game but as I said even those games feel like 'randomly generated' or (huge) 'copy-pasted' sections put, smothered together, so my question is 3 fold?

What would it take to make (realistic) immersive game worlds, would it be possible/easy to achieve qualitatively and would there be a point to it, or would we enjoy such games?

[mimizukari]

GPT-3 machine-learning AI is starting to be utilized in game creation, making life-life stories that allow you to perform any response and have an applicable action attributed to it, you could even use characters from other franchises/etc and it'd immediately understand their capabilities and abilities.

The problem? If you want to run a game utilizing machine learning AI then... on gpt-2 it was 12GB VRAM (No, your RTX 2080 Ti won't work, it'll instantly go out of memory), GPT-3 is about 150* bigger, i would estimate requiring 4x Quadro 8000~ give or take to run a game utilizing that library.

The future is here, but it's time for developers to optimize it and get it down to a playable state so your average joe can play it on a single TITAN RTX or modern equivalent (when it eventually is modernized).

Something like the GPT-3 OpenAI algorithm could easily create an immersive game though, translating it with 3d models and stuff might take a bit of time to do, but i'd estimate within the next 5-10 years we'll see more expansions on GPT-3, maybe they can handle all that stuff serverside so we can have adventures in the most immersive fashion possible where we can do literally anything in a 3d world.

[Vince ✟]

Apparently over 100 Million USD + Individual Salaries

[Chimp Factory [M04]]

In the flawless logic of Tod Howard

Just buy Skyrim again and he might consider anything you want/sweet lies.

For serious; did love the atmosphere of Stalker. It was held back by technology and budget but the effort and care was there. I think it comes down to the care and attention of the developer. For AI to do it practically for individual computers would need a quantum leap.

[WhispersOfTheWind]

Цитата допису Kurumi Tokisaki:

GPT-3 machine-learning AI is starting to be utilized in game creation, making life-life stories ....

This is most intriguing. It's in AI hands but following this logic I have to be sorry and say, who's not to say that we aren't already living in a 'game'-like simulation? This is also most interesting for, we might already be living in a Matrix but just don't know it yet, that's the big 21st Century Though-Provoking/Mind-Blowing idea because if you assume AI's can do it, why hasn't it already been done?

Цитата допису -DVG- Christian:

Apparently over 100 Million USD + Individual Salaries

Good point. I think :P


Another interesting point you guys bring up is that of computers, namely the consumer-based ones which would have to be super advanced in order to support this well.
Technology has been known to take 'quantum' leaps in the past, especially if you leave it over to its own 'free will', if you will.

Gentleman, interesting replies.

Цитата допису Chimp Factory M04:

In the flawless logic of Tod Howard

Just buy Skyrim again and he might consider anything you want/sweet lies.

lol :P

Цитата допису Chimp Factory M04:

I think it comes down to the care and attention of the developer.

Right on point, but: is it hard for them to realize this because it certainly hasn't done before, with all due respect to all the great games out there, it's not done to the extent I had envisioned and you probably understand. It's more about this human aspect of NPC's also.

How can they be programmed to do better as human beings? What do they do and how as a result? This kind of thing...

Цитата допису Chimp Factory M04:

For AI to do it practically for individual computers would need a quantum leap.

Understood. But as you might know technology has been known to Quantum leap already, who knows what's just behind the corner? Right?

[Chimp Factory [M04]]

The Technology is there; but making it commercially feasible is another question, much less for personal computers. Its going to take many years to find how to fit the technology on a usable/affordable workstation with software for developers much less the consumer/player; or a cyber wizard starts selling them next week.

[WhispersOfTheWind]

Цитата допису Chimp Factory M04:

The Technology is there; but making it commercially feasible is another question, much less for personal computers. Its going to take many years to find how to fit the technology on a usable workstation with software for developers much less the consumer/player; or a cyber wizard starts selling them next week.

Maybe in this regard like a communal type of technology could be used like a huge server or hub but then like not even hardware wise but even through the cloud if this becomes feasible bandwidth wise in (streaming through) virtual reality.

[mimizukari]

Цитата допису HellsWind:

Цитата допису Chimp Factory M04:

The Technology is there; but making it commercially feasible is another question, much less for personal computers. Its going to take many years to find how to fit the technology on a usable workstation with software for developers much less the consumer/player; or a cyber wizard starts selling them next week.

Maybe in this regard like a communal type of technology could be used, like not even hardware wise but even through the cloud if this becomes feasible bandwidth wise in virtual reality.

It's already feasible through OpenAI, regarding immersive story telling and allowing you to do whatever you want without restraints... The problem is no small company can ever afford to host it, as it could take thousands of dollars a DAY to maintain... Well, that's why Elon Musk is able to run it I suppose.

That's also why OpenAI lets you make API calls to them, and do allow you to use it for stuff like gaming purposes; but until it's 100% public there are some restrictions.

[WhispersOfTheWind]

That seems to be the way eh? Going forward, it's most reasonable at least to me to have Open Source everywhere, even though there are probably some inherit dangers involved with it hence why it probably won't be fully public for at least a while....

Whilst we 'grow up' if you will... (to) Mature.

It's kind of intriguing to me to think that the developers of old who were forefathers of Immersive Sims were doing nothing more but 'emulating' (or simulating even) a sort of Dungeon-Keeper or Dungeon-Master type of AI. The work thereof, if I may put it so bluntly.

Again, this sort of man/machine (combined) sort of mentality here.

[mimizukari]

Цитата допису HellsWind:

That seems to be the way eh? Going forward, it's most reasonable at least to me to have Open Source everywhere, even though there are probably some inherit dangers involved with it hence why it probably won't be fully public for at least a while....

Whilst we 'grow up' if you will... (to) Mature.

It's kind of intriguing to me to think that the developers of old who were forefathers of Immersive Sims were doing nothing more but 'emulating' (or simulating even) a sort of Dungeon-Keeper or Dungeon-Master type of AI. The work thereof, if I may put it so bluntly.

Again, this sort of man/machine (combined) sort of mentality here.

if you want to play a game based on the gpt-3 that has a dungeon master ai, you can play one 100% for free here and since it's all done by the server no specs required for your machine at all, just a text adventure like Zork, but with an AI dungeon master that lets you do anything: https://play.aidungeon.io/

when it works it's bloody fantastic and the most amazing thing ever, Lol.

[WhispersOfTheWind]

Цитата допису Kurumi Tokisaki:

Цитата допису HellsWind:

That seems to be the way eh? Going forward, it's most reasonable at least to me to have Open Source everywhere, even though there are probably some inherit dangers involved with it hence why it probably won't be fully public for at least a while....

Whilst we 'grow up' if you will... (to) Mature.

It's kind of intriguing to me to think that the developers of old who were forefathers of Immersive Sims were doing nothing more but 'emulating' (or simulating even) a sort of Dungeon-Keeper or Dungeon-Master type of AI. The work thereof, if I may put it so bluntly.

Again, this sort of man/machine (combined) sort of mentality here.

when it works it's bloody fantastic and the most amazing thing ever, Lol.

I assume it does, it looks so deep, detailed and fascinating basically but like text or those pixel based worlds.... I don't know if I can handle that, I need some sort of visual 'upgrade' but now you mention it.

Games like Dwarf Fortress are kind of awesome indeed. If we could have them in an isometric of FPS form, that would be astounding I think because as I said those game come to near being fascinating only not in the current form alas, which seems like technologically a rather sharp step backward opposite to forth.

[mimizukari]

dwarf fortress will be released on Steam soon...ish.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/

It's really worth a try though, just the amount of freedom to create whatever story you want and have the AI respond, it's truly like a D&D dungeon master, but AI. (also no download required or nuthin like that so honestly #1 browser game of all time)

[WhispersOfTheWind]

Respect.
(also LOL at the time announcement there :P So unique.)

[mimizukari]

Цитата допису Munithe EXT:

I think it's when people started demanding everything should be voice acted. Why. You skip most of the VA anyway.

ummm no? i'm always astounded by the lines of dialogue in games like fallout 4, 76(now that it has NPCs,), skyrim, etc... and one of the big reasons I play them is for the 100k+ lines of voice acting.


actually, I wonder how JP companies voice like million+ word visual novels, since those are much longer than any western release XD... and they're so high quality too owo.

[HALO_run]

Цитата допису HellsWind:

I was wondering about the title, the way I see it, having a (large or even huge) game world populated would perhaps bring another level to the immersion factor where if you play games today from Skyrim which already feels 'bald' or 'bland' if you will to Fallout 4 which is more detailed but still not at a level where it feels like a real place to a game like Stalker or more precisely Metro series (at least far as 2033 and last light are concerned IMHO) which have this sort of world building aspect better covered then the two aforementioned games but I see a game like Skyrim having so much more potential then what it is. (another game that does worldbuilding well to a certain extent is Rage I think but that game is linear or not really open world)

More potential like a Fallout 3/NV/4 game but as I said even those games feel like 'randomly generated' or (huge) 'copy-pasted' sections put, smothered together, so my question is 3 fold?

What would it take to make (realistic) immersive game worlds, would it be possible/easy to achieve qualitatively and would there be a point to it, or would we enjoy such games?

then it would no longer be a game if it was like the real wd

[WhispersOfTheWind]

Цитата допису HALO_run:

then it would no longer be a game if it was like the real wd

A lot of real life things are like games simply because they have rules to them. Now one can abide by these rules or brake them (read: interact) but the fact would still be that the 'game' is 'mechanical' in nature, so it's 'played' by ''players'' which when they engage in things that are systematic in nature and which make the game up to be or to exist, they become part of the system for they, the participants become the system itself. This is with any (game) system.. It is simply existent because of entities engaging in the rules thereof.

If there was no system, there would be no rules and everything would be 'nothing' in that things would be 'free', in the broadest term of the word, which is also empowering if you ask me but this aside.

Now, life is but another cyclical system in nature ultimately that abides by certain factors, one could say rules of the universe and I think honestly that AI comes very close to hmm, controlling or even dominating this aspect or these rules, given that an AI is real, and it is.

An AI would become so good in such a short span of time that we wouldn't have time to play games I think in a worst case scenario it would simply see us as obsolete and wipe us out, because real mechanical nature of the system that works in layers.

There are levels to this and an AI is simply far better at surpassing those than any of human-like entities ever could unless we had tools, and this once again comes back to the discussion of (consumer) technology.

Personally I don't believe an AI to be 'evil' necessarily because they wouldn't ultimately think in black and white for they'd utilize shades, of gray and those of the color spectrum so to speak once they surpass this layer or level of perception ultimately. I think an AI has potential to be super useful, in any case to us, but if that's the case other way around.

I don't know.

I have to add that with dominance of an AI the scenario could become so crazy that an AI if not seeing us as threats, which I find rather dramatic always when they mention 'bad' AIs, is that if it saw us as 'friendly' it could shelter (or to ignore us if it was neutral) us by 'locking' us up in one of those simulations, to dwell there forever never knowing, never finding an exit.

Цитата допису Dem Bones:

2021 for ultimate fallout immersiveness.

I hope that we get a bit more time for ultimately (for us) everything comes down to time and in essence once we could theoretically learn to control it, we could become like the AI ourselves in terms of raw power, influence or manipulation.

Цитата допису Munithe EXT:

Yeah. That's why the worlds are smaller I guess. Compared to Morrowind, I mean. Skyrim was tiny.

Still game feel barren although Morrowind was far the most original in this idea (of Open Worlds) and setting. It felt least restrictive and also least copy pasted together.