According to LoTR and Tolkien Goblins and Orcs are the same

[1984]

Been reading the books and came upon the part where the company was chasing after the Sarumans orcs who stole the hobbits. The orcs were destroyed and burned by the men of Rohan and when Aragorn and Co. came upon the burial site, it says and I quote "Upon a stake in the middle was set a great goblin head; upon its shattered helm a white badge could still be seen"

He is referring to the mark of Saruman the Uruk Hai (High Orcs) wore as their insignia.

So Tolkien uses goblin as a way to describe orcs meaning ugly or as a synonym to the word orc.

I find this pretty cool because later on people started splitting up Orcs and Goblins into 2 different types of creatures. Goblins are usually small but Orcs are larger.

[Electric Cupcake]

highfivingbears の投稿を引用：

Hugsie Muffinball の投稿を引用：

You def should read The Silmarillion and standalone Narn I Chin Hurin and Lay of Leithian.

For the History of Middle Earth series, only Unfinished Tales and Lost Road are required.

The problem for me with The Silmarillion and other books in that similar vein is that they don't read like the LOTR trilogy. They read like a history book, and trust me, the two are very different.

Bull. Maybe the Valaquenta is a bit dry and concise, but the prose in the Ainulinale and Akalabeth and pretty much the rest of it is elegant and beautiful.

[highfivingbears]

Hugsie Muffinball の投稿を引用：

highfivingbears の投稿を引用：

The problem for me with The Silmarillion and other books in that similar vein is that they don't read like the LOTR trilogy. They read like a history book, and trust me, the two are very different.

Bull. Maybe the Valaquenta is a bit dry and concise, but the prose in the Ainulinale and Akalabeth and pretty much the rest of it is elegant and beautiful.

History books can be elegant and beautiful, but they're still history books.

[Masque]

Tolkein is better than real history books in one sense: it stands no chance of being biased, or lies.

[/.]

ZERO KAY PER CENT の投稿を引用：

ƤŁȺᎢiƝՄM ȺƝGԐᏞ の投稿を引用：

I haven't read anything by Tolkien, mainly because I felt the LOTR movies were boring as dirt, but George RR Martin was heavily influenced by Tolkien and his song of ice and fire books are almost Biblical in detail. Have you read them?

Apparently he's also finally writing again, since covid-19 has everything on lockdown, so we might actually see the real ending to his story! (Since game of thrones season 8 was a slap in the face and certainly not what GRRM has in mind considering the show changed a lot and even removed substantial characters, not to mention how rushed the final season felt)

The only part that Martin takes influence from is how the hobbits and others travel/camp. Otherwise SOIAF has nothing that is like to LOTR

I never said SOIAF was anything like LOTR, I said that GRRM was influenced by Tolkien, which he was.

The world-building aspect of both stories are similar, even if entirely different worlds. They both created their own worlds.

[psychotron666]

Corthmic の投稿を引用：

Boofalo Soja の投稿を引用：

I'd read Martin, but his books contain too much -- censored word -- like every other chapter someone is forcibly ****ed, like it's a seriously creepy fetish of his. I think that's what the two R's in his name stand for. George ***e ***e Martin. Strange that he gets a pass for this fetish by the usual suspects that would crucify anyone else with such an obvious fixation.

I stopped reading Stephen King for the same reason. Like, dude, write a story without giving us graphic underage or nonconsensual relations once, for a change.

Tolkein didn't need that. I don't either. Now, or as a kid.

It isn't a "fetish" thing, the universe his books take place in is a hybrid of realistic middle ages and fantasy, and people in the middle ages were bad touching pretty often.

As for Stephen King, he might just be weird.
...Or it could be the insane amount of cocaine he was doing.

It takes place in a medieval like world where winter comes for a couple decades and there's no running water technology and a shower would likely mean pneumonia, yet everybody is going down on each other like they aren't unwashed savages and completely unnecessary to the story or characters in 95% of the cases.

[psychotron666]

Boofalo Soja の投稿を引用：

I like what Bethesda did with their orc and elf lore. Dwemer, chimer, altmer, dunmer, bosmer, etc. It really works well, I think. Tolkein started a fire, though, didn't he? It's fascinating how deeply he developed his backstory. I don't think anyone's done a better job at what he did in that regard, with any fiction.

Bethesda comes close, and so did Anne Rice for both her vampire and witch books. That's the type of fiction I like (even though I don't read Rice's books any more -- too dark for me), stuff with histories that are almost Biblical in detail, with languages and genealogies to dig into.

Edit: I'm reading Vox Day's Arts of Dark and Light books right now, almost done with A Throne of Bones, and it grabs me like nothing since LoTR has. For fantasy lovers, I highly recommend it.

Check out the name of the wind and it's sequel the wise man's fear by Patrick rothfuss. Really cool fantasy story that has a unique style of magic and is written in a very interesting style. The third book should hopefully be coming soon

[Esoteric]

Tolkien was a decent writer but also very overrated.

[highfivingbears]

Logos の投稿を引用：

Tolkien was a decent writer but also very overrated.

Alright, where's my pitchfork? Who's got the torches?

[Vince ✟]

Logos の投稿を引用：

Tolkien was a decent writer but also very overrated.

He's in league with Bradbury

[AdahnGorion]

ZERO KAY PER CENT の投稿を引用：

Darkie の投稿を引用：

It is not even just in this universe, in alot of universes, Orcs are just corruped Elves and well.. most elves are almost corrupted.. Just look at TES lore as well.

But I mean, it is not really that special, infact it is pretty boring.. If you want proper lore, go D&D and even more so, go read about the Giff (Space Hippo ftw)

And yes I know they all draw on not just Tolkien, but also even older lore.. (Elves are actually old Norsemen folklore)

Tolkien was fascinated by Norse lore. Norse lore has both Dwarves and Elves. I am not sure but I think Dwarves are described as underground elves in it

Trolls, fairies and so much more as well
But as I said.. No space hippo in Tolkien universie ^^

[Z i o ⚡]

King Karp の投稿を引用：

orc and goblin are simply different words for the same crap.

like pop and soda.

It's usually not like that in games. Goblins are usually scrawny with bent over far posture. Very unnatural looking, while an Orc is very ugly too but looks like a more functional humanoid.

[AdahnGorion]

ヤヒャ の投稿を引用：

King Karp の投稿を引用：

orc and goblin are simply different words for the same crap.

like pop and soda.

It's usually not like that in games. Goblins are usually scrawny with bent over far posture. Very unnatural looking, while an Orc is very ugly too but looks like a more functional humanoid.

Both Orc and Goblin are humanoids in the D&D universe and differ in size, culture etc.
In we go Tolkien style, they are not different at all, but the very same thing.

[Crazy Tiger]

I prefer the DnD interpretation of fantasy lore.

[Crazy Tiger]

To me Tolkien is the McDonalds, honestly.

[AdahnGorion]

King Karp の投稿を引用：

Crazy Tiger の投稿を引用：

I prefer the DnD interpretation of fantasy lore.

Most people prefer McDonald's over a home cooked meal. There is no shame in this.

If we compare the two, then Tolkien, albeit older is the McD. It is actually very lackluster and lacks alot of variety. But it is great for what it is and the time it was put in. 1 nerd does just not have a chance against 100 nerds.. obviously.

I mean Tolkien pretty much just copied Prose Edda, Norse mythology (various sources), a few Germanic books as well and made them abit more streamlined and easy to understand.

We can find many direct copies of not only characters from old sources, but also events in Tolkiens books, but one thing I do respect is that Tolkien does not hide this fact, he instead said open hearted that he did this.

Personally I also like the DnD universe alot better, their interpetertation of Ljósálfar and Dökkálfar is also much better tbh.



One thing is certain. Without Snorri Sturluson, none of the Tolkien books have existed, nor DnD as well know it.