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Why did the dreamcast fail?
The Dreamcast was a massive failure for sega, but why?.

They spent 100 million on advertising and made good advertisements, it was the first console of the 6th gen, and it was $100 dollars cheaper than the ps2. How did segas best console become a flop?
Автор останньої редакції: Speeder; 3 квіт. 2019 о 18:04
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Показані коментарі 1628 із 28
Цитата допису sage2001:
You know, it was ahead of its time in some sense. It was one of the first few consoles to allow cross-platform play with PC with Quake 3, and it was one of the first consoles that had full keyboard and mouse support with some games.

I never really grew up with a Sega Dreamcast - I was more of a Sony or Xbox guy growing up, but it's still somewhat interesting to look at.

This is true.

I personally think one of the biggest reasons was that the playstation played DVDs and was a lot cheaper than the DVD players at the time. More people bought it so it succeeded while the dreamcast died down. I firmly believe that if it had played DVDs too, it would have continued to sell just fine.
Автор останньої редакції: Kris; 4 квіт. 2019 о 6:20
Цитата допису talemore:
Цитата допису RRW359:
This isn't the biggest reason, but there is a factor a lot of people ignore: GD-ROM's.
Not only did people like the conveniance of playing DVD movies on the PS2 and (to a lesser degree) Xbox, but if you ask most people why the GameCube didn't do as well as Nintendo wanted, they will most often say it's because its (1.5GB) miniDVD's couldn't store as much as a standard DVD (4.7-8.4GB depending on layering). GD-ROM's could only store 1.2GB, which was even worse than the GameCube.
Well I say your argument is hogwash and made up. Knowing and played a gamecube know that the main reason was the controller. The controller for gamecube was so bad that people prefered to buy an xbox over the gamecube even if the handcontroller for xbox was too big. The console was made to work with the format. It's not my job to program the game. Even if many embraces N64, it was the same story. The N64 had one of the worst controllers. Xbox had the ability to store games on the harddrive. Sony had the titles. Having a gamecube was limited to what games you could buy. The console was rated by media. It was a media races whose console was the best. Console master race was for real when it came to what console to buy. What some don't know is that people pirated games and used reprogram on playstations and xbox, the gamecube with its small CD made it unable for pirates to copy over games.
What about all the games that required multiple disks or the ones that needed extra compression despite the GC's better specs in most other areas to the PS2? There were devs who refused to even port their games to the GC due to its small storage and the DC would have had the same problem (but without the performance advantage).
Автор останньої редакції: RRW359; 4 квіт. 2019 о 20:27
Цитата допису sage2001:
It was one of the first few consoles to allow cross-platform play with PC with Quake 3, and it was one of the first consoles that had full keyboard and mouse support with some games.

No fps, no online multiplayer games and no keyboard and mouse are some of the reasons why I have loved consoles most of my life and I would like to be able to still love them today (I can't love them anymore because I have understood that it is too easy for producers to force scams on their customers using them)

No wonder I hate Dreamcast so much.
It was the first one to do things I hate and did not want on consoles.
There are a few things that need to be considered.

One is that even during the height of their popularity, the Sega Genesis was never very popular in Japan. Most of its sales were overseas, but it's the Japanese company that was ultimately in charge because they make the games and the hardware, even if their western divisions have better business sense.

The second thing that needs to be considered is that the way Sega handled the 32x and the Saturn absolutely wrecked whatever good faith customers had, and game developers built with Sega over the years.

People did not want to buy a 32x when it became known that the Saturn was right around the corner, so Sega pulled it out from the market after only six months. As a result, the 32x games did not have a chance to sell, and developers felt like they could not trust Sega to provide them a reliable platform.

Might have been able to recover from that by making the Saturn a success, but it put the system at a disadvantage, and the saturn had its own problems besides that. It was overengineered, making it very difficult to develop for and much more expensive than the original Playstation ($400 vs $150 at launch) for less power in 3D processsing. Moreover, Sega of America did not fully capitalize on the library of 2D games because of the 3D craze. Internal squabbling at Sega aslo prevented them from making a good business decisions for the Saturn. Sonic game to entice fans to buy the new system, and giving the Saturn the hardware it needed to compete in its most successful markets. Thanks to the efforts of the western division, Sega had first crack at a partnership with Ricoh Silicone Technologies to make something more practical than the Saturn, which they company ultimately turned it down in favor of an inhouse design that was ultimately much worse, and the tech was used in a competing platform. I think it was the N64? If Sega had an N64 with C.Ds. the saturn era would have been much easier for them to dominate.

Alternatively, if Sega made the saturn a cheaper system with an emphasis on better 2D, and had a game like Sonic Mania to push systems, they probably would have been in a better position. Most of the great games I can think of for the Saturn, besides Panzer Dragoon, Nights into Dreams and Virtua Fighting (which were all first party games) were 2D anyway. That's not something I think anybody would have anticipated though, so I won't blame them too much for that. However, with both the 32x and the Saturn ultimately being failures, Sega's reputation was basically ruined.

Because of what transpired with the Saturn, there was a falling out with the western division of the company and there was a change of management, so they no longer had their star executive. Sega lost Tom Kalinske, who had been a leading force behind Sega's success with the sega Genesis, and he was replaced got Bernie Stolar, who opposed the localization of games that he felt they didn't represent the consoles well enough to the western market, such as J.R.P.Gs. I am not sure if this is related, but I would also like to take note that Shoot 'em Ups also didn't seem to be localized very often, which constituted a major portion of their prior consoles' libraries. Zero Wing, Raiden Trad, Truxton et cetera. They didn't port over Ikaruga and many of the Cave games.

E.A.in particular jumped ship with their sports games, and wouldn't come back unless they were awarded exclusive rights to make sports games games for the system, which was a denied request. Bernie Stolar also denied this request because he recently bought a company with the intention of reviving the Sega Sports brand. Now perhaps this was't too big of a deal in and of itself. I hear NFL2k and NBA2k were very good sports titles, but it's not quite the system seller that the Madden series was, and if you are going to remove games from the library that appeal in order to target a certain demographic and avoid driving them away, then you need the games which majorly appeal to that demographic.

However, overall I think the move to eschew Japanese games would be like if Nintendo listened to the complaints that their consoles were too childish, and removed Mario and Kirby games as a result to go all in on Metroid, Zelda and third party titles.To a customer, the choice of video game consoles largely boils down to choosing which exclusive games you would prefer to play

Sega's strategy was not also as franchised based as it probably should have been. With the exception of the blue blur seems like most of the time Sega abandoned their star franchises every generation. Why didn't we see Golden Axe, Shining Force, Streets of Rage or Ecco the Dolphin on the Saturn? Why didn't we see Panzer Dragoon or Nights into Dreams games on the Dreamcast? The only mascot character Sega kept around was Sonic. Maybe they hated watching the blue blur rip up Alex Kidd to shreds? Nintendo has a large library of recognizable mascot characters and game franchises, each of whom are just as much, if not moreso a part of the brand identity as the hardware was, but Sega didn't really have that. For that reason, their move to being a software only company is really befuddling to me, because most of what I remember them doing is making heavily scorn Sonic games.

People always look forward to a Nintendo console to see what the next big Mario, Zelda, Metroid and other such games are going to be like, and people will buy a Nintendo console just for something like Super Mario World or Breath of the Wild, but all Sega had for people to anticipate on the Dreamcast was Sonic, and if you're not the type who has gotta go fast, then Mario is just as good, if not better and if platformers weren't your cup of tea then you may as well follow Squaresoft and their beloved final Fantasy Franchise to the Playstation 2.

Also, most importantly, the Dreamcast didn't actually fail. It was murdered prematurely. Sega was a manufacturer of arcade cabinets, and what they saw in a console was a platform to deliver raw power. Sega does what nintendon't, blast processing 'n all that jazz. They totally sold themselves on being more powerful than the N.E.S. in the years, and even tried to give the false impression that the system was more advanced than the S.N.E.S. that came out two years later even though it wasn't. When they learned the Playstation 2 was coming out, what they saw was a console that was much more powerful than the Dreamcast ever could hope to be and decided to once again, pull the plug early because in these three way races, Sega wasn't really a winner. The P.C. Engine was a much more popular system in Japan, despite the Turbographix not being that well known in the west. I think they felt as if two was company, but three was a crowd and decided to leave the hardware as a head-to-head race between Nintendo and Sony.

So it was never given the chance to compete against the Dreamcast because Sega anticipated failure, and quit while they were ahead like they tried to do with the 32x, proving that developer distrust in the Sega platform was probably warranted. In retrospect, they probably should have stayed in the market. Sega had better hardware than what Nintendo was using to compete through to the introduction of the Gamecube, and they had great I.Ps. like Phantasy Star Online, Shenmue, Sonic Adventure, Space Channel 5, Ikaruga, Chu Chu Rocket, Samba Di Amigo and Skies of Arcadia, alongside some nice third party support from Capcom and Namco which positioned them as a console manufacturer that could capture the arcade experience for games like Marvel vs.Capcom and Soul Calibur, and their own Ikaruga. The Power Stone games weere also great. However, at this point the arcade ports were so good that they basically killed the actual arcades, and accuracy to the arcades becomes meaningless when no new arcade games are being released to the public.

I imagine if Sega stuck around, that they could have easily occupied the space Microsoft took, and with much greater success because they had their own intellectual property, and would have probably made a controller that was smaller from the start, more like the S controller instead of suffering the folley of The Duke.

They had plenty of time before anybody besides Sony made hardware that was comparable to the Playstation 2, and could have possibly made a system very much like the original xbox, except backed with Sega exclusive I.Ps., had they decided to stay in the marketplace. I really can't help but notice how much the xbox 360 controllers resembled the Sega's controllers. A, B, X and Y are in the same position relative to eachother, and the buttons are the same colors (even if the order is altered). It only had analogue triggers. It also had two memory card slots built into the controller itself. It was also the first controller since the Saturn to have six face buttons.

However, now I've digressed into the what if category, so let's move back onto the main topic.

Now, this isn't really a mistake as a case of bad timing, since I believe the console is just ever so slightly too old for this in all likelihood, but the Dreamcast did not support a y/pb/pr video output signal. I feel like it would have been a boon for them if it had. The Dreamcast had progressive scan support, but only through V.G.A., and the nature of the console at the time was that it is going to be hooked up to televisions, rather than use its own dedicated monitor. Y/Pb/Pr. would have been more conducive to that, and it would have allowed them to skip the ridiculous V.G.A. box setup that was intended to be hooked up into both a television and a V.G.A. monitor. Nobody kept their computer next to their television. Y/pb/pr supports both standard definition and progressive scan. Granted, I could be wrong, since the y/pb/pr cable for the Gamecube didn't sell so well, but that was in large part because you had to order it directly through Nintendo.

Speaking of progressive scan, you also have to remember that the Playstation was being marketed as one of the first D.V.D. players. Not only did the D.V.Ds. give the Playstation much more space to work with, but it more easily allowed children to justify the purchase of one to parents, and justified the extra expense. Not only that, but the Playstation 2 had Backwards compatibility with both Playstation 1 games and controllers. Even if you only meant to use the system as a D.V.D. player at first, this made it a multifunctional device and you could put the original Playstation somewhere else, or resell it without needing to dump off all of your games at gamestop.

Something else I think is worth mentioning is that with the western influence gone from the company, Sonic reverted from his Matel influenced design, into something more closely resembling the Mr. Needlemouse dedign, and Sonic games made after Sonic Adventure were largely criticized, including Sonic Adventure 2, and we wouldn't see much critical success with Sonic until he started back to his roots.

Basically, everything. Sega was a total mess of a company that really only lucked into the position they had during the early 1990s and killed a number of geese laying golden eggs by disrespecting their legacy ever since. It's really no surprise that their brand name fell through the floor, and I'm surprised the company still even exists.
Автор останньої редакції: Tonepoet; 4 квіт. 2019 о 10:54
Sega have never been able to capitalize on their IP and guarantee a minimul quality standard for their games.
Sega had a hard time with the Saturn and Dreamcast failed, while many (myself included) love the Genesis/Megadrive.
But Sega had many problems and did not deserve ANY trust even during the Genesis era.
Modern Sonic games are bad, that's what everybody say, Sonic 3D games are ♥♥♥♥.

Now look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oon2HKYqYI

This horrible piece of awful ♥♥♥♥ was for the Genesis.
Many modern Sonic games are better than that. I am a fan of Sonic Unleashed, I think it is a very good game, anyway not just Sonic Unleashed is better than this crap, atr least Sonic Generations, Sonic Lost world and Sonic Colors are better than that, not to mention Sonic Mania.

They made great games sometimes, but they have never been trustworthy at all.
You couldn't say "I'm going to buy their new console because their games will be amazing!", you could only say "I'm going to buy their new console. Let's hope there will be good games too not just crappy ones. Oh wait, maybe I'd better buy a different console now that I think of it!!"

Sega abandoned almost all of their IPs and this is a big problem, I agree. But even when they did not they just ruined their IPs or at least demonstrated that one couldn't just trust that the new episodes were going to be good just because the old ones were good.

They never had any method in what they did.
Цитата допису talemore:
Цитата допису RRW359:
This isn't the biggest reason, but there is a factor a lot of people ignore: GD-ROM's.
Not only did people like the conveniance of playing DVD movies on the PS2 and (to a lesser degree) Xbox, but if you ask most people why the GameCube didn't do as well as Nintendo wanted, they will most often say it's because its (1.5GB) miniDVD's couldn't store as much as a standard DVD (4.7-8.4GB depending on layering). GD-ROM's could only store 1.2GB, which was even worse than the GameCube.
Well I say your argument is hogwash and made up. Knowing and played a gamecube know that the main reason was the controller. The controller for gamecube was so bad that people prefered to buy an xbox over the gamecube even if the handcontroller for xbox was too big. The console was made to work with the format. It's not my job to program the game. Even if many embraces N64, it was the same story. The N64 had one of the worst controllers. Xbox had the ability to store games on the harddrive. Sony had the titles. Having a gamecube was limited to what games you could buy. The console was rated by media. It was a media races whose console was the best. Console master race was for real when it came to what console to buy. What some don't know is that people pirated games and used reprogram on playstations and xbox, the gamecube with its small CD made it unable for pirates to copy over games.
i heard the gamecube controller was one of the best controllers though.
Dreamcast was a great old console. It's hard to see now, but it had better graphics than any of its competitors, (even many ps2 games don't have the same amount of visual fidelity), and it was the first console to launch with online capability. Why it failed, though? Personally, I'd say the controller was a big factor.

Having a single analog stick and d-pad on the same side was awkward - and since that was the start of reliable 3d gaming on consoles. For shooters like MDK2 and Fur Fighters, the ABXY buttons were used for movement. To move diagonally, you had to hold two buttons simultaneously. So, because of that, it limited the kinds of games that could work well, hence why most games were arcade ports.

And then, there's stuff like Shenmue, a game every dreamcast owner would have had to buy 2 copies of for it to be profitable.

But still, I love that old console...
Автор останньої редакції: Florida Man; 4 квіт. 2019 о 20:24
Цитата допису Florida Man:
Dreamcast was a great old console. It's hard to see now, but it had better graphics than any of its competitors, (even many ps2 games don't have the same amount of visual fidelity), and it was the first console to launch with online capability. Why it failed, though? Personally, I'd say the controller was a big factor.

Having a single analog stick and d-pad on the same side was awkward - and since that was the start of reliable 3d gaming on consoles. For shooters like MDK2 and Fur Fighters, the ABXY buttons were used for movement. To move diagonally, you had to hold two buttons simultaneously. So, because of that, it limited the kinds of games that could work well, hence why most games were arcade ports.

And then, there's stuff like Shenmue, a game every dreamcast owner would have had to buy 2 copies of for it to be profitable.

But still, I love that old console...
Games looked better on the DC than the PS2 because of the video processor (not the GPU, the thing that converts video to analogue so it worked with the cables available at the time), but you can't really say it looked better than the *GC/Xbox.

*Assuming you live in Japan or are lucky enough to have a North American component cable. Obviously comparing a DC using VGA to a GC using S-video or worse wouldn't be fair.
Цитата допису sage2001:
Simple: they weren't reliable. First, they released the Sega CD and 32x as competitors to the PS1 and N64. Then, they tried to come back with the Saturn, which I believe financially failed.

By the Dreamcast, fans just couldn't put up with it. Sega was simply losing a game of catch-up. At least, that's how I view it.


was u even around wen tht console came out lol
Цитата допису Regi ParcelForce ╾━╤デ╦:
Цитата допису sage2001:
Simple: they weren't reliable. First, they released the Sega CD and 32x as competitors to the PS1 and N64. Then, they tried to come back with the Saturn, which I believe financially failed.

By the Dreamcast, fans just couldn't put up with it. Sega was simply losing a game of catch-up. At least, that's how I view it.


was u even around wen tht console came out lol

Does it matter? I'm sure everyone has this ability called "hindsight".
The dreamcast didn't fail.
Wd failed the dreamcast.
Цитата допису Speeder:
The Dreamcast was a massive failure for sega, but why?.

They spent 100 million on advertising and made good advertisements, it was the first console of the 6th gen, and it was $100 dollars cheaper than the ps2. How did segas best console become a flop?

https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/36v8op/eli5_why_did_the_dreamcast_fail/
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Усі обговорення > Форуми Steam > Off Topic > Подробиці теми
Опубліковано: 3 квіт. 2019 о 18:04
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