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Anthem: Didn't even look at Warframe, Destiny in development
Skill-Up has created a post mortem on Anthem referencing an 11,000 word article that I will link for those of you interested, which basically debunks a lot of theories we shared with one another on this forum. Namely, EA isn't the primary reason, or a reason at all, that Anthem falls short. If curious, here is video and link to article. May we discuss these things here.

11,000 word article: https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem-went-wrong-1833731964

Skill-Up Post-Mortem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKTXBe-jtfk

Please understand that Anthem is on Origin and as a topic of interest to Warframe community in the past, it is a small update and closure to that debate "Warframe vs Anthem" Any game which ignores its competition and their mistakes is Destiny-ed to fail. Pun intended.

That said, great, Warframe is looking better than ever, right?

Well, one thing is for sure: DE has to be the trend setter moving forward because now there is a fantastic prime example of how to fail in this genre, which is to have artists not unify under a singular, creative vision but rather design by-committee and popular trends. DE is on the fringe of being like this.
Origineel geplaatst door Vulbjorn:
Guys, don't fight.
The article by Kotaku is actually really interesting on it's own, and video by Skill Up is also chill and logical. If anything, this article doesn't create another beef between games, but serves as a cautionary valuable tale on game development and importance of clear vision and proper leadership.
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I wouldn't call Warframe a trend setter really, mostly because I think AAA companies completely ignore Warframe.

Games today are made by planning a monetization system and building a game around said system. Game developers these days just aren't interested in making good games but instead what will earn them the most money, the only trends they are willing to follow is what's popular and will make them the most money.

Warframe is a great game, but no AAA developers want to make a great game like warframe, instead they just want to make good games that will last them and make profit until the next big trend.
Origineel geplaatst door Grizzmoe:
I wouldn't call Warframe a trend setter really, mostly because I think AAA companies completely ignore Warframe.

Games today are made by planning a monetization system and building a game around said system. Game developers these days just aren't interested in making good games but instead what will earn them the most money, the only trends they are willing to follow is what's popular and will make them the most money.

Warframe is a great game, but no AAA developers want to make a great game like warframe, instead they just want to make good games that will last them and make profit until the next big trend.
This guy didn't read the article, watch the video, or even relate this to the topic. GG
Why would you even waste time reading this "article", waste time watching this pointless video or eh... relate to this topic?
Origineel geplaatst door Shazbot!:
Why would you even waste time reading this "article", waste time watching this pointless video or eh... relate to this topic?
For proper discussions purpose?
Origineel geplaatst door Shazbot!:
Why would you even waste time reading this "article", waste time watching this pointless video or eh... relate to this topic?
Gee I dunno maybe you have an opinion or something and enjoy video game related media. But yeah preposterous.
Oh god, is Overwatch all over again, again. Do you ever stop bringing unnecesary beef between Warframe, Destiny and Anthem.
Origineel geplaatst door massgunner32:
Oh god, is Overwatch all over again, again. Do you ever stop bringing unnecesary beef between Warframe, Destiny and Anthem.
Glad you saw past the first word of the title of the post.
De auteur van dit onderwerp heeft aangegeven dat dit bericht het oorspronkelijke onderwerp beantwoordt.
Guys, don't fight.
The article by Kotaku is actually really interesting on it's own, and video by Skill Up is also chill and logical. If anything, this article doesn't create another beef between games, but serves as a cautionary valuable tale on game development and importance of clear vision and proper leadership.
Ya know, one thing I've never understood about games and their development is that why do they have to be 'trend setters'?

Ya know most of the time devs and publishers with loads of dosh usually watch what customers are enjoying most and try to cash in on that. That's what happened in past with RTS genre, just with Battle Royale and still maybe going on, and now to try to get onto the looter shooter genre.

I do take the document itself with salt, due to EA's past, the companies that have shut down under it, and EA arguably saying that they prefer games as 'service' instead of actually making games.
The lack of leadership is the same situation that had happened with Westwood's Comma d & Conquer 4 -
Before release the game was advertised as "real-time strategy game that is true to C&C style RTS". And all the interviews after the release, all the questions regarding the game where met with visible confusion
Origineel geplaatst door Vulbjorn, the walrus rider.:
Guys, don't fight.
The article by Kotaku is actually really interesting on it's own, and video by Skill Up is also chill and logical. If anything, this article doesn't create another beef between games, but serves as a cautionary valuable tale on game development and importance of clear vision and proper leadership.
Almost want to mark this as answer but still, well said.

Origineel geplaatst door Franss the Coffee Addict:
Ya know, one thing I've never understood about games and their development is that why do they have to be 'trend setters'?
You go on to describe how popularity causes other games to follow trends to their own detriment. Well, okay? It would be nice if you could see past how trend-followers trip over themselves to actually speak to the point. Also, this has nothing to do with EA so I know for a fact you neither read the article or watched the video...

Just to be clear, you know that setting a trend means pioneering or implementing a really popular niche that is unique, original, or otherwise masterfully executed? That is what Warframe needs to do. Disagree with that? What happens when another game and sets the trend everyone was crying out for in Warframe(insert yours here)?
Laatst bewerkt door CazadorDeLobo; 6 apr 2019 om 23:48
Origineel geplaatst door CazadorDeLobo:
Just to be clear, you know that setting a trend means pioneering or implementing a really popular niche that is unique, original, or otherwise masterfully executed? That is what Warframe needs to do. Disagree with that? What happens when another game and sets the trend everyone was crying out for in Warframe(insert yours here)?
Oh I dont disagree. It's just that these days it's more of a how well one can copy someone's new unique 'trend', maybe mix it up a little with something new and sell it for certain price. That is still okay to my eyes. But when microtransactions get added to said price is never okay.

And DE's been trying to make Warframe 'trend' for a long time, with The Plains update making it reasonably well-known. There's reason why it's one of the most played games on steam right now.
But of course, when someone else tries to cash in on looter shooter genre everyone will compare it to games like Warframe and Borderlands. Pretty normal, considering looter shooters have a long grind times in them, and what makes these types of games enjoyable is their enjoyment and how some get hooked to them for a long time
More than anything else, this just scares me into thinking DA4 is going to suffer terribly from all this. Bioware losing so much of its staff, being split between Edmonton and Austin, and then EAs ever-welcome presence.

Unfortunately, I don't see Warframe becoming the trend setter. Warframe is the "wow it's amazing AND it's free" of the genre. A big game, a lot of unique ideas, but a lot of stuff that just wouldn't hold up in a proper paid title. There's a lot DE could learn from Destiny too (yeah, I hate to say it).

Take Warframe's new interest in open world locales, then compare them to Destiny zones. You've got areas full of interesting little puzzles and secrets and unique activities to coincide with the game's missions and stories - free roam has a lot of interesting stuff.

Free roam in Warframe has repetitive bounties, a boss fight per zone and grinding for resources. Some great design for areas with no use, no interesting puzzles or secrets besides scannable lore-notes.

They could take a page from Destiny and spice things up. The same goes for secret rooms in tile sets, but all they contain are more containers for mundane resources.

To go a step further, boss complexity is lacking. Eidolons were the first step, Orb Mother's the next, but that's two of many.

Warframe isn't setting any trends because the true uniqueness of the game is the combat. The high velocity, horde clearing, acrobatic chaos that doesn't have a place in most games. It suits Warframe because the game is built around it, but it ain't gonna be setting a trend.

The rest of the game is the decent but ultimately mediocre amalgam of many different ideas that culminate into a great game, but hardly the next best thing. Warframe is a masterpiece in my perspective, but mostly because it has accomplished amazing things with a small team and no massive AAA funding like Bungie's Destiny.

What Warframe lacks is cohesiveness, something to bring it all together. A lot of its content just feels like various sets of grinding activities. The story is coming along nicely, but so much of the game is this plethora of content that's just thrown at you out of the blue, and only long-term players really know what they're doing.

Look at Destiny. Cohesive story that slowly takes the player through the game to learn what it offers. Strikes to learn minor complexity. Raids to build upon that and face tough and complex battles/puzzles. Open world zones with puzzles and secrets that often tie into quests or unique rewards

Each thing building upon the previous but with greater complexity. Interesting and well designed areas that actually offer unique rewards for properly exploring the many secrets there. Difficult content where difficulty is a result of complexity over number inflation.

Destiny is the trend setter, but falls short due to the god-awful monetisation and locking most of the game behind overpriced DLC - there's undeniably a lot of good things about it though.

I prefer Warframe, but a lot of it feels like wasted potential, especially the open world zones. Warframe needs more of what Destiny offers - it's a grinding game, but there are many different types of grind. Warframe has enough of the "kill X enemy for a % chance of getting Y".

This form of grinding is fine for a lot of stuff, but so much unique content is locked behind RNG. It needs more non-RNG grind too. Unique secrets, challenges, fights etc. that offer new rewards. I'm looking at Destiny Exotic quests - they're grindy as heck, but reward is guaranteed and incentive to do them is high.

Warframe has a long way to go yet, and a lot of that isn't introducing loads of new game-modes, it's rethinking their approach to grinding. Lately they've just been pushing RNG to extreme levels, and it's going downhill, they should develop a new approach.
Origineel geplaatst door Grizzmoe:
I wouldn't call Warframe a trend setter really, mostly because I think AAA companies completely ignore Warframe.
You would be stupid to ignore something that is consistently in top 10 played games on most popular gaming platform.
And is also on MANY other platforms, PC playerbase is ~50% of a total playerbase which makes Warframe's impact on gaming actually pretty huge.

Which again makes Warframe a top played looter shooter which means it is a trend setter as every leader is.

As you noticed how AAA works, we take something that is tested and works, we copy that, we overhype it so we have something to show to investors. Doubt anyone is stupid to ignore Warframe at this point, maybe 2 years back it would be okay to ignore it...

What are you trying to say is actually opposite of what it is - Warframe was made, like it's core idea was NOT to compete with giant games of it's time, it was made to be different.
Not other games are trying to do what Warframe does.
Origineel geplaatst door Shazbot!:
Origineel geplaatst door Vulbjorn, the walrus rider.:
importance of clear vision and proper leadership.
B-but muh minorities!
it really isn't about that ....

I read the main article a few days ago.... these devs just sat on their collective asses for 6 -7 years doing nothing but collecting paychecks and holding meetings.

I bet most of them ran knowing the ♥♥♥♥ was going to hit the fan.

EA gave them "creative freedom" and it bit them in the ass... can't say this will be good for future games they may be in charge of if this is the kind of workforce you have to deal with.

Seriously ... they complain about not knowing how to use the game engine and having to learn how to create the tools they need for drops etc only after they get a boss to make a decision.
They are saying they had this thing they had to make a game on and didn't even bother to learn how it works in 7 years? These people must have been sitting in their offices and got paid to play other games. Anthems problems are much deeper than "art direction".
Isn't Anthem on life support already?
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Alle discussies > Steam-forum > Off Topic > Details van topic
Geplaatst op: 6 apr 2019 om 20:25
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