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Leavee 8/ago./2018 às 2:40
Any ww2 planes that is viable to the modern day?
Now if you remember me,i made a thread about ww2 tanks being viable today and i got some good answers on them being now just used as infantry support and all SHT's just better off not being a good choice.

But after that whole thing i just thought if ww2 planes like the BF109,p51 mustang,spitfires and the russian YAK-9t would still do well in the art of modern war.Or bombers like the flying and super fortress (B-17 and B-29).

Now normally an F22 would just come in and take a dive to a whole bunch of em and just shred them to pieces but i would like to see what they would fair now being used other than just being in a museum collecting dust rather than flying high up in the skies like they used to.
Última edição por Leavee; 8/ago./2018 às 2:41
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shoopy 9/ago./2018 às 2:06 
Escrito originalmente por NewGBreaker:
Escrito originalmente por slandy:

They are CAS aircraft. It's what they are built for. They were never intended for high intensity environments. We have other aircraft for that.
CAS is air action by fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft against hostile targets that are in close proximity to friendly forces. It has nothing to do with intensity of the conflict.
It does have to do with intensity because without controlling the air, what's to stop the enemy from using it's own CAS?

Ideally if you're using CAS it's because you can use it. Your same argument could be used against radar stations which are vulnerable to artillery or bombing, or radar missiles.
Amuro0079 9/ago./2018 às 2:35 
Escrito originalmente por slandy:
Escrito originalmente por NewGBreaker:
CAS is air action by fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft against hostile targets that are in close proximity to friendly forces. It has nothing to do with intensity of the conflict.
It does have to do with intensity because without controlling the air, what's to stop the enemy from using it's own CAS?

Ideally if you're using CAS it's because you can use it. Your same argument could be used against radar stations which are vulnerable to artillery or bombing, or radar missiles.
I think you misunderstand what intensity means here. A war between major world powers is a high intensity conflict; an asymmetrical guerrilla warfare is low intensity.
Última edição por Amuro0079; 9/ago./2018 às 2:39
shoopy 9/ago./2018 às 2:50 
Escrito originalmente por NewGBreaker:
Escrito originalmente por slandy:
It does have to do with intensity because without controlling the air, what's to stop the enemy from using it's own CAS?

Ideally if you're using CAS it's because you can use it. Your same argument could be used against radar stations which are vulnerable to artillery or bombing, or radar missiles.
I think you misunderstand what intensity means here. Fighting against a major world power is a high intensity conflict; an asymmetrical guerrilla warfare is low intensity.

Yes, I know. Most of that is just political jargon.

The point is you don't send ground attack craft into places that are riddled with SAMs without having a way to deal with it. You have to win that part of the battle first, and we can't always afford to send fighters when they are spread thin. You send your expensive high tech fighters to where they are needed, while your other aircraft do the job that they can. That doesn't change jus t because it's officially a war.
Amuro0079 9/ago./2018 às 2:53 
Escrito originalmente por slandy:
Escrito originalmente por NewGBreaker:
I think you misunderstand what intensity means here. Fighting against a major world power is a high intensity conflict; an asymmetrical guerrilla warfare is low intensity.

Yes, I know. Most of that is just political jargon.

The point is you don't send ground attack craft into places that are riddled with SAMs without having a way to deal with it. You have to win that part of the battle first, and we can't always afford to send fighters when they are spread thin. You send your expensive high tech fighters to where they are needed, while your other aircraft do the job that they can. That doesn't change jus t because it's officially a war.
The thing is if the enemy have the same level of tech as you do, you're gonna have a hard time pulling off SEAD missions.
Última edição por Amuro0079; 9/ago./2018 às 2:55
shoopy 9/ago./2018 às 3:02 
Escrito originalmente por NewGBreaker:
Escrito originalmente por slandy:

Yes, I know. Most of that is just political jargon.

The point is you don't send ground attack craft into places that are riddled with SAMs without having a way to deal with it. You have to win that part of the battle first, and we can't always afford to send fighters when they are spread thin. You send your expensive high tech fighters to where they are needed, while your other aircraft do the job that they can. That doesn't change jus t because it's officially a war.
The thing is if the enemy have the same level of tech as you do, you're gonna have a hard time pulling off SEAD missions.
But so are they if they are equal. They will have the same problems which makes strategy more important. And if you can't break through then you probably shouldn't be fighing that war anyway.
Arya 9/ago./2018 às 3:40 
Escrito originalmente por slandy:
Same reason we still use the A-10. Get there fast, strike fast, leave fast.

That's not how A10s are used in real life. Mostly they're Forward Air Control today; improved AA guns and harsh lessons learned in the second Gulf War mean they're rarely used for overhead strafing anymore. Today's A10s are usually used as Forward Air Control, or used to fire missiles such as the AGM-148 from a couple of kilometres away.

The close-range support role is mostly given to the Apache gunship now. And airstrikes are mostly done by F16s and F/A18s, which have exactly the same possible loadouts and can be on station a lot faster.

All of the above will be replaced by an upgraded B52 "Arsenal Plane" in the near future. This will essentially be a modernized AC-130 with a huge array of missiles and the ability to direct swarming drones. It'll fire over the horizon, like an aerial battleship.
Xero_Daxter 9/ago./2018 às 4:00 
Are Flintlock Muskets still viable for driveby shootings?
Leavee 9/ago./2018 às 4:16 
Escrito originalmente por Xero_Daxter:
Are Flintlock Muskets still viable for driveby shootings?
If you were in the day with horses and carriages then yeah.
Escrito originalmente por slandy:
Escrito originalmente por NewGBreaker:
The A-10 isn’t survivable in high intensity conflicts - in one of those hypothetical wars against Russia or China, A-10s would drop like flies. It's one of the reasons they're retiring it.

The A-10 can fly with half the plane missing just about. They also decided to not retire it, it's getting updated instead.

Pretty much, A-10 cockpits are made out of titanium so they're highly durable and can withstand 23 mm cannon rounds.

Awhile ago, when the JSF program (Joint Strike Fighter program) was new, they were considering on replacing a number of aircraft including the F-16, Harrier, A-10, F-18 with the F-35... but they soon realized that it wasn't a wise decision and there was no way that such a plane could fulfill the role of these aircraft, much less the A-10 itself. So, they changed their minds on it.

The A-10 will be around for a long time considering what it can do.

Speaking of, the F-35 was just a money and time sink.

Escrito originalmente por RRW359:
Escrito originalmente por slandy:

Not saying we should. I'm just sayting they could work if you did use them. It's pretty obvious that we have much better aircraft but that wasn't the question.
Yeah sure they would work, which is why many nations used their WW2 aircraft for some time after the war, but eventually the cost of keeping them working outweighs the cost of just getting a newer aircraft for that role.

Yes, many countries still used such aircraft up until the '80s. But like I was telling this one guy earlier in the thread, planes are a totally different story from other kinds of hardware. It is much more likely to make a plane obsolete than it is any other kinds of hardware.

So for example, some tanks, regardless of era can be viable in certain instances but planes of those same eras aren't (usually, depends on type).

It's relatively common in the Middle East to have seen these relics still fighting, there's pics of even FT-17s leftover from WWI that are out there.

With that said, for firearms, even some of those old ones from WWII and WWI are still being used.
Última edição por SgtEmissary [Kane's Will]; 9/ago./2018 às 7:05
Xero_Daxter 9/ago./2018 às 7:02 
If anything Mexico don't have a powerful Airforce. Their Airforce are comprised of Cropduster Planes.
WhiteKnight77 9/ago./2018 às 12:12 
Escrito originalmente por NewGBreaker:
Escrito originalmente por slandy:

Same reason we still use the A-10. Get there fast, strike fast, leave fast.
The A-10 isn’t survivable in high intensity conflicts - in one of those hypothetical wars against Russia or China, A-10s would drop like flies. It's one of the reasons they're retiring it.
What do you think the A-10 was designed for? If a fight with the Soviet Union is not a high intensity conflict, then I don't know what it. I am from the Cold War era and the A-10 was designed specifically to kill Russian tanks (which it did during Desert Shield) and to operate in a high threat environment and had design criteria for it including where the engines were placesd and the direction of the exhaust.


Escrito originalmente por NewGBreaker:
Escrito originalmente por slandy:

The A-10 can fly with half the plane missing just about. They also decided to not retire it, it's getting updated instead.
They are, 2022 in the year they're planning the retirement.
With the new wings, they are expecting to keep the A-10 flying through the 2030s. Why? Due to the troops on the ground and others needing what it provides compared to the F-35 and the Super Tucano whose bomb loads are limited as well as loiter time.
Última edição por WhiteKnight77; 9/ago./2018 às 12:14
Amuro0079 9/ago./2018 às 21:03 
LOL, six A-10s were shot down in Desert Storm/Shield, fighting enemies forces with weak outdated soviet tanks without mobile SAMs distributed with their armor.

If you throw A-10s against tanks with 2K22M/2S6M escorts losses will be staggering, unless the A10 fights exclusively with missiles at standoff ranges. A10s that try to come close enough to fire their cannons are inside the 2K22 gun range, plus they also have their SAMs. China has similar systems.
Wow so much talk against the warthog in a thread about World War II planes. The A-10 is not currently outdated as its Deployable weapons package is fairly modifiable giving it extended ground combat range. The incredibly fearsome 30 mm Vulcan Cannon is designed for use as a strafing weapon, and updated chaff and ECM systems now for improve survivability in addition to the vehicles durability and reliability in the air. It's not cutting edge but it's very good at the job it's designed for which is tearing armored columns apart, much like the Apache. The A10 got renewed because we have a Fleet of them and they are incredibly reliable and extremely Deployable against the majority of military forces due to the fact that most of them like proper Hardware to counteract high-end air strikes on ground targets. Hogs don't go in as a first strike, at least not without troops lazing targets. With proper ground support a hog flight Wing can absolutely destroy anything on the ground.

Just because the aircraft isn't bleeding-edge doesn't mean it's outclassed. It was never designed for air combat, and was designed to carry payload and countermeasures designed to neutralize and eliminate Ground Forces particularly armor and transports. It's probably not going to be a front-line assault vehicle anymore for the neutralization of ground targets, but it certainly can be deployed to neutralize large number of non high priority targets such as emergency troop movements or to cut Supply chains while some more advanced Tech that you prefer can be used in high value targets. The Hogs not going to be a ground combat star just like the Apache won't, but they both still have vital an important role since they can easily be upgraded.
just a thought.
Amuro0079 9/ago./2018 às 22:02 
The only reason they are extending the life of A-10s to mid 2030s is because they can't find a good replacement for it. The airframe is aging and maintaining an aging fleet of aircraft is not cheap. The new wings won't arrive till 4 years later, so good luck.
highfivingbears 9/ago./2018 às 22:41 
They're not viable. Planes from the 50's onwards have a slight chance, but in a warfare situation, any WWII era prop or early jet isn't going to be useful. I'll tell you why.

Some people still favor the F-22, because it has such a high maneuverability in midair and it's great in a dogfight, but here's the thing: we don't dogfight anymore. What we do is acquire a target lock from miles out using advanced sensors, fire a missile, wait for it to hit, and you've got yourself a confirmed kill. Modern aeronautical combat has moved past dogfighting.

Long gone are those days, where planes would circle around each other in a deadly duke-it-out duel suspended thousands of feet above the ground, just waiting for the other pilot to make the slightest mistake in near-impossible twists and turns for the average man, all the while a constant awareness on their own instruments telling them how close they are to death.

Frankly, it's barbaric.

While the result is still the same in the end, with that being a dead enemy, modern aeronautical combat is much more sophisticated nowadays. Those early jets like the Meteor or that tiny little German deathtrap piece of plane engineering would be demolished instantly against any modern air force of the world.
Última edição por highfivingbears; 9/ago./2018 às 22:43
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Todas as discussões > Fóruns Steam > Off Topic > Detalhes do tópico
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