what the ♥♥♥♥ is a denuvo?

[Uncle Crispy]

EVERY ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game i can see has atleast 3 "you lost a buyer because of denuvo" threads on the first page of the forums. can someone tell me what it is?

[mm.324]

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

Messaggio originale di mm.324:

I gave you better numbers than some speculative article. Can you show hard proof that every single pirated copy of a game is a lost sale? Of course not.

The fact is that Denuvo wouldn't exist were it not for people pirating games in the first place. Again, you're pointing your finger the wrong way. If you want to be mad at someone, let it be the pirates.

Going back to my analogy... it isn't the pirates waving the gun at me.

[Monkee]

Messaggio originale di mm.324:

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

The fact is that Denuvo wouldn't exist were it not for people pirating games in the first place. Again, you're pointing your finger the wrong way. If you want to be mad at someone, let it be the pirates.

Going back to my analogy... it isn't the pirates waving the gun at me.

If you see Denuvo as the immediate threat I won't try to change your mind. You're entitled to whatever opinion you want. But it is important to know where decisions come from when making choices in whatever you do - in this case whether or not to buy a game.

[Nicat]

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

Messaggio originale di Nicat:

My first question was a counter question to your "Show me one link that proves the use or lack of use of Denuvo directly affects sales." question. While I do agree it isn't provable, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hope this will make my question more understandable to you.

So will that patch come out automatically? If a company doesn't bother to remove denuvo after it gets cracked it just means they don't care about legit buyers and I highly doubt they'll make a patch. I can't prove it because it hasn't happened yet but it'll be late when it happens just like older failed DRMs. And only way to play those games will be piracy... if pirates are able to make a fully functional crack without issues.
Steam has similar problems but it is not as terrible as denuvo because it doesn't make you unable to install game on multiple PCs, doesn't ask for regular checks afaik. Also steam isn't only bad stuff. It has a nice free cloud save, easy to implement multiplayer system for devs for ex., what has denuvo brought other than the problems above?

Again what are you trying to do in this topic? Which problems do you disagree with pointed in this thread other than hardware issues it causes which I don't think is for the most part true as well. Can you give one good thing it has given you as consumer? It might not have negatively affected you yet but doesn't mean it is okay to support it.

My best theoretical answer would be based on what happened when GFWL went under. People found a way to make those games playable again soon after for people who purchased them and everyone went back to enjoying their games.

Regarding a good thing that comes out of Denuvo as a consumer - I know I am getting a legitmate digital version of a game that has not been cracked by some third party site. If I buy that copy of the game and something happens in the future to people who did not buy the DRM version (or pirated it), I have a receipt and a legit way to either get my money back or contact customer service for that game to get the issues fixed.

You see, people shouldn't have had to do that "workaround" (which is basically "cracking" a game) if they bought the game.

I'm not talking about what you gained by not pirating a game. You still have that same "good thing" with pirates around and denuvo or not denuvo as long as you buy a legit copy and have a receipt. I'm asking which points do you disagree with being a problem of all the above ones? And what exclusive good thing has denuvo brought to you and industry that wasn't available without it?

[Monkee]

Messaggio originale di Nicat:

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

My best theoretical answer would be based on what happened when GFWL went under. People found a way to make those games playable again soon after for people who purchased them and everyone went back to enjoying their games.

Regarding a good thing that comes out of Denuvo as a consumer - I know I am getting a legitmate digital version of a game that has not been cracked by some third party site. If I buy that copy of the game and something happens in the future to people who did not buy the DRM version (or pirated it), I have a receipt and a legit way to either get my money back or contact customer service for that game to get the issues fixed.

You see, people shouldn't have had to do that "workaround" (which is basically "cracking" a game) if they bought the game.

I'm not talking about what you gained by not pirating a game. You still have that same "good thing" with pirates around and denuvo or not denuvo as long as you buy a legit copy and have a receipt. I'm asking which points do you disagree with being a problem of all the above ones? And what exclusive good thing has denuvo brought to you and industry that wasn't available without it?

I agree with you regarding not having to do a workaround as a player. But the reality is that the playerbase is constantly improving games where developers fail- perfect examples including resolution fixes/UWHD support, SLI profiles/support, custom cfg files for poorly optimized games, the list goes on. The reality is that the developers can be and are blamed in those cases too as being "lazy".

Now you have an example of a developer who is trying their best to include something that is anti-pirate/protecting their product, and they get berated for it.

To directly answer your question - am not getting anything exclusive/good out of Denuvo. Then again, I am not paying extra for it either so I am not expecting a "benefit" out of it. The benefit is for the developers, and I will gladly support the developers if they truly think Denuvo is protecting them from pirating. I am that much anti-pirate.

[mm.324]

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

To directly answer your question - am not getting anything exclusive/good out of Denuvo. Then again, I am not paying extra for it either so I am not expecting a "benefit" out of it. The benefit is for the developers, and I will gladly support the developers if they truly think Denuvo is protecting them from pirating. I am that much anti-pirate.

But, if you buy a game with denuvo, you are paying for it. The price they pay for it will be reflected in the price you pay. You're also paying for it in the form of less content/features because that money wasn't used for development.

[Monkee]

Messaggio originale di mm.324:

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

To directly answer your question - am not getting anything exclusive/good out of Denuvo. Then again, I am not paying extra for it either so I am not expecting a "benefit" out of it. The benefit is for the developers, and I will gladly support the developers if they truly think Denuvo is protecting them from pirating. I am that much anti-pirate.

But, if you buy a game with denuvo, you are paying for it. The price they pay for it will be reflected in the price you pay. You're also paying for it in the form of less content/features because that money wasn't used for development.

If you buy a game with or without Denuvo, the price doesn't change. You're not paying more for a game if it has anti-pirate protection in it. and less if it lacks it.

Also, content/feature addition usually comes after the game sells, not before. Unless it's a AAA company selling a season pass or a company using microtransactions to fund their future products, the initial sales dictate future direction/patches.

[Nicat]

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

Messaggio originale di Nicat:

You see, people shouldn't have had to do that "workaround" (which is basically "cracking" a game) if they bought the game.

I'm not talking about what you gained by not pirating a game. You still have that same "good thing" with pirates around and denuvo or not denuvo as long as you buy a legit copy and have a receipt. I'm asking which points do you disagree with being a problem of all the above ones? And what exclusive good thing has denuvo brought to you and industry that wasn't available without it?

I agree with you regarding not having to do a workaround as a player. But the reality is that the playerbase is constantly improving games where developers fail- perfect examples including resolution fixes/UWHD support, SLI profiles/support, custom cfg files for poorly optimized games, the list goes on. The reality is that the developers can be and are blamed in those cases too as being "lazy".

Now you have an example of a developer who is trying their best to include something that is anti-pirate/protecting their product, and they get berated for it.

To directly answer your question - am not getting anything exclusive/good out of Denuvo. Then again, I am not paying extra for it either so I am not expecting a "benefit" out of it. The benefit is for the developers, and I will gladly support the developers if they truly think Denuvo is protecting them from pirating. I am that much anti-pirate.

Those are examples where devs had to implement something but didn't due to time constraint/budget or whatever and has nothing to do with adding something which makes at least some legit buyers have trouble.

Lets see some of the most beloved games with hardcore fans. Divinity, Warframe, Metro, Witcher and many other AA/A and indie games that have no additional DRM and are some of the most successful games. So it is possible to have success without "fighting against piracy". Plus most of the Denuvo protected games are cracked and there is no need for it. But for some reason devs keep it on and legit buyers are still in same risks. That is the main issue. If every game removed denuvo after the crack most people wouldn't be as troubled by it.

You also have the right to ask devs to remove Denuvo after it has been cracked and DRM has no purpose anymore and is a potentioal problem for legit buyers.

About being anti-pirate. There are so many different reasons for people pirating games, like demo-ing (2 hours is no way enough for some games), not having money (not every country is ecnomically blooming),
edit: those people wouldn't have bought it anyway,
certain principles etc. So I wouldn't hate on piracy all along because again cracking those GLFW was illegal at that time afaik and thanks to pirates those people could play those games. edit: after GLFW shut off.

Hope this clears it up a bit at least.

[Carl Brutananadilewski]

Messaggio originale di MrL0G1C:

Messaggio originale di NTense:

And more specifically, how does it affect your system? Maybe the complaints would have more credibility if they supplied evidence and reasoning instead of just crying for the sake of it.

Tekken 7 Director Says Denuvo DRM Is Causing Performance Issues In The Game[wccftech.com]

Denuvo anti-tamper tech causes major issues to legitimate owners of Sonic Mania[www.dsogaming.com]

Warner Bros games like Injustice 2, Shadow of War and Mad Max are unplayable due to Denuvo server issues.[segmentnext.com]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/does-denuvo-slow-game-performance-7-games-benchmarked-before-and-after-they-dropped-denuvo.60879/page-2

Denuvo, like DRM in general, offers no benefit to legitimate game owners[www.giantbomb.com]

The main point is that Denuvo doesn't benefit the players and worst of all, it seems to affect slower systems far worse because of all the processing power it clearly uses.

Thank you for actually taking the time to put links out there rather than simply making claims. Denuvo has never affected me in any way I can confirm but this is welcome to anecdotal fits thrown in the forums.

[mm.324]

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

Messaggio originale di mm.324:

But, if you buy a game with denuvo, you are paying for it. The price they pay for it will be reflected in the price you pay. You're also paying for it in the form of less content/features because that money wasn't used for development.

If you buy a game with or without Denuvo, the price doesn't change. You're not paying more for a game if it has anti-pirate protection in it. and less if it lacks it.

Also, content/feature addition usually comes after the game sells, not before. Unless it's a AAA company selling a season pass or a company using microtransactions to fund their future products, the initial sales dictate future direction/patches.

What they pay for denuvo has to figure into the price you pay. That's how business works, if you don't take into account all of your costs you're just guessing at what to price your product.

I don't know what they charge for denuvo but I seen numbers mentioned $100k-$500k. If that's true, a small dev group could add a lot of content/features for that amount of money.

[SparkyLab]

Messaggio originale di Nicat:

About being anti-pirate. There are so many different reasons for people pirating games, like demo-ing (2 hours is no way enough for some games), not having money (not every country is ecnomically blooming),

Why is sampling a game for 2hrs not long enough? Unless there is a cinimax opening for over an hrs long.

As for some country "not having money"? Would you work for free so those people can have the luxury?

To me Pirate comes in either:-
1) Defiant . Have the money might support but because don't get their way (either discussion or from company) will pirate it.
2) Mooch. If can get it free why not. Even if can pay, the adrenaline of not being caught and can be in the "in group" is greater than being an anonymous paying customer.
3) poor but want the luxury.

As for the one who crack it, it is a form of satisfaction.

In any case. Either buy and have fun (if you enjoy the game) or don't and move on to other games that do not have what you dislike. 14 pages of back and forth.... it's a good read thou :)

[Monkee]

Messaggio originale di SparkyL:

Messaggio originale di Nicat:

About being anti-pirate. There are so many different reasons for people pirating games, like demo-ing (2 hours is no way enough for some games), not having money (not every country is ecnomically blooming),

Why is sampling a game for 2hrs not long enough? Unless there is a cinimax opening for over an hrs long.

As for some country "not having money"? Would you work for free so those people can have the luxury?

To me Pirate comes in either:-
1) Defiant . Have the money might support but because don't get their way (either discussion or from company) will pirate it.
2) Mooch. If can get it free why not. Even if can pay, the adrenaline of not being caught and can be in the "in group" is greater than being an anonymous paying customer.
3) poor but want the luxury.

As for the one who crack it, it is a form of satisfaction.

In any case. Either buy and have fun (if you enjoy the game) or don't and move on to other games that do not have what you dislike. 14 pages of back and forth.... it's a good read thou :)

Now I am starting to see why Nicat and I aren't seeing eye to eye...he is a pro-pirate.

Which there's nothing wrong with, go do your thing. But don't you dare come on here and complain about DRM when you are all for illegially downloading games because you think you're entitled to dip your spoon in the pot without paying for the soup.

LOL get out of here man, and here I thought you had a good argument all this time.

[Monkee]

Messaggio originale di mm.324:

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

If you buy a game with or without Denuvo, the price doesn't change. You're not paying more for a game if it has anti-pirate protection in it. and less if it lacks it.

Also, content/feature addition usually comes after the game sells, not before. Unless it's a AAA company selling a season pass or a company using microtransactions to fund their future products, the initial sales dictate future direction/patches.

What they pay for denuvo has to figure into the price you pay. That's how business works, if you don't take into account all of your costs you're just guessing at what to price your product.

I don't know what they charge for denuvo but I seen numbers mentioned $100k-$500k. If that's true, a small dev group could add a lot of content/features for that amount of money.

Very doubtful - that means some of these indie companies are banking on selling close to 17,000 copies of a $30 game just to offset the cost of Denuvo up front. Makes no sense as most indie games don't sell close to that in their life.

[HiRed_ThuG]

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

Messaggio originale di SparkyL:

Why is sampling a game for 2hrs not long enough? Unless there is a cinimax opening for over an hrs long.

As for some country "not having money"? Would you work for free so those people can have the luxury?

To me Pirate comes in either:-
1) Defiant . Have the money might support but because don't get their way (either discussion or from company) will pirate it.
2) Mooch. If can get it free why not. Even if can pay, the adrenaline of not being caught and can be in the "in group" is greater than being an anonymous paying customer.
3) poor but want the luxury.

As for the one who crack it, it is a form of satisfaction.

In any case. Either buy and have fun (if you enjoy the game) or don't and move on to other games that do not have what you dislike. 14 pages of back and forth.... it's a good read thou :)

Now I am starting to see why Nicat and I aren't seeing eye to eye...he is a pro-pirate.

Which there's nothing wrong with, go do your thing. But don't you dare come on here and complain about DRM when you are all for illegially downloading games because you think you're entitled to dip your spoon in the pot without paying for the soup.

LOL get out of here man, and here I thought you had a good argument all this time.

Alexander DeLarge decided to link this thread on Crackwatch because.... something to do with not being a pirate and reasons...

So expect to see a lot of "pro-pirates" here. Think of Alexander as the pied-piper.

['master4life « Hopeless »]

Holy canoly. I were about the buy this game, because of the first Trailer I have seen on Gamescom. It was a hidden wonder. But in this case. Sir, you just lost an customer.

Totally disrespectful against their customers with their worries about DRM solutions.

PS: If you claims I am just a pirate it anyway. Check my profile out, it should make you speechless. Seeyaw

[SparkyLab]

Messaggio originale di Monkee:

Messaggio originale di mm.324:

What they pay for denuvo has to figure into the price you pay. That's how business works, if you don't take into account all of your costs you're just guessing at what to price your product.

I don't know what they charge for denuvo but I seen numbers mentioned $100k-$500k. If that's true, a small dev group could add a lot of content/features for that amount of money.

Very doubtful - that means some of these indie companies are banking on selling close to 17,000 copies of a $30 game just to offset the cost of Denuvo up front. Makes no sense as most indie games don't sell close to that in their life.

Yeah, I want to ask too then why Nintendo Switch games and AAA games (without anti-temper software) more expensive than thse indies that uses denuvo?

If the answer is that cartridges are expensive. Then explain to me why Vita and 3DS are not the same price as Switch? They uses cartridges too. ( still trying to figure this out whenever I read people defending Switch games price.