An FPS Without Hitscan: Could It Work?

[Tsar Butterfly]

Could an FPS work if it ONLY had projectiles with a travel time instead of the light speed hitscan bullets present in almost every shooter? I'm sure a game like this exists, but if it does it clearly hasn't gotten very big.

Ignoring issues like screwing over people with slow Internet (not a problem if it's a single player game) and making the game laggier, could an FPS be mechanically balanced around this? Shots would be harder to hit and would require a sense of prediction, and dodging and positioning would have a greater impact on the game. Due to the difficulty of landing such shots, they could deal high damage, or even be an instakill. Think of how Dark Souls requires timing when you swing your weapon and every enemy can be dodged and defeated without taking any damage provided you're good enough.

I understand a lot of arena shooters have projectile weapons, but none of them are free from hitscan entirely. Imagine a single player game where you have incredibly low health and aren't a bullet sponge like most modern shooters, but every projectile that enemies fire can be dodged with the right amount of skill. As the game goes on, projectiles could get faster or could be coming from multiple directions. Imagine a multiplayer game where success is not just dependent on reaction times and twitch aiming, but on working as a team to fire in unpredictable patterns. I think it would be really cool and could bring something fresh to such a bloated genre.

[TwinEdgedBastard]

DOOM 2016s single player pretty much did this, there are only 3 hitscan attacks that come from enemies, 2 of them telegraph the attack so you can dodge it while the third has a very limited range (only slightly longer than melee).

I find that non hit scan weapons in arena shooters (aside for aoe weapons) are for the most part too unreliable once you get to a certain skill level. When I played Quake champions a few months ago I found that the nail gun (rapid fire, non hitscan) is kind of crap when used against someone who knows how to dodge effectively since the projectiles are too slow for you to reliably predict where to shoot. In TF2, there is a really good reason why the Huntsman is nicked named "The Lucksman", it's because it is most effective when spamed down a choke point.

I do think a non hitscan arena shooter is possible, but it would take a lot of work to make it balanced.

[Tsar Butterfly]

Originally posted by TwinEdgedBastard:

DOOM 2016s single player pretty much did this, there are only 3 hitscan attacks that come from enemies, 2 of them telegraph the attack so you can dodge it while the third has a very limited range (only slightly longer than melee).

I find that non hit scan weapons in arena shooters (aside for aoe weapons) are for the most part too unreliable once you get to a certain skill level. When I played Quake champions a few months ago I found that the nail gun (rapid fire, non hitscan) is kind of crap when used against someone who knows how to dodge effectively since the projectiles are too slow for you to reliably predict where to shoot. In TF2, there is a really good reason why the Huntsman is nicked named "The Lucksman", it's because it is most effective when spamed down a choke point.

I do think a non hitscan arena shooter is possible, but it would take a lot of work to make it balanced.

Yeah, that's why I would probably make this a single player game where you simply have to learn how to dodge projectiles and lead somewhat predictable enemies. Like all single player games there's going to be a skill cap where you can just breeze through, even with self-imposed challenges, but also like all single player games it would be much easier to balance than a competitive multiplayer game.

[shoopy]

Quake had some mods where you only use rockets, and only direct hits counted.

[Tsar Butterfly]

Originally posted by slandy:

Quake had some mods where you only use rockets, and only direct hits counted.

A mod isn't really a fully realized game. I'm sure it took a lot of skill and was fun, but I could see it getting old fast.

[laff]

Originally posted by Tsar Butterfly:

Originally posted by Avurize:

I may sound pretty stupid right now but don't games like Arma 3 or Squad do this? Haven't played Arma enough to find out and Squad never worked on my PC

I think ARMA has bullet travel time so that you have to lead your shots at longer distances, but I don't think you can see the bullets coming and reliably dodge them. I'm talking more like rocket launchers that have a distinct projectile that you can see and avoid.

Originally posted by Tsar Butterfly:

Originally posted by im free:

There's no hitscan in STALKER except for the knife and enemy melee attacks.

Yeah, but like the previously mentioned ARMA, it's just that bullets have travel time. You're not really going to be dodging the bullet after it's fired and you can't see it. It's still entirely reliant on your ability to aim. I'm thinking more like TF2's rocket launcher where it has a distinct projectile that anyone can see coming.

So you mean a game with slow projectiles only?

[Baosas]

Bullets aren’t really dodgeable unless shot from a very long distance away, and you’ll likely not get to hear anything if they are. Plenty of games with bullet drop/distance simulations by now, they don’t always render them (save for the occasional tracer rounds), but the effects are often there.

Superhot might be worth a look; it’s hardly on the realistic side, but it does feature clearly visible projectiles that must be dodged if you wish to progress.

[Tsar Butterfly]

Originally posted by laff:

Originally posted by Tsar Butterfly:

I think ARMA has bullet travel time so that you have to lead your shots at longer distances, but I don't think you can see the bullets coming and reliably dodge them. I'm talking more like rocket launchers that have a distinct projectile that you can see and avoid.

Originally posted by Tsar Butterfly:

Yeah, but like the previously mentioned ARMA, it's just that bullets have travel time. You're not really going to be dodging the bullet after it's fired and you can't see it. It's still entirely reliant on your ability to aim. I'm thinking more like TF2's rocket launcher where it has a distinct projectile that anyone can see coming.

So you mean a game with slow projectiles only?

Projectiles can be fast, they just need to be visible and able to be dodged after they've already been fired.

[100% lob juice]

Whoa haha imagine a game where there's like two paddles and they play tennis with each other that would be PRETTY CRAZY bro haha

[Tsar Butterfly]

Originally posted by Lob:

Whoa haha imagine a game where there's like two paddles and they play tennis with each other that would be PRETTY CRAZY bro haha

If you're going to be a smug smart ass at least do it right. Alluding to tennis by saying "playing tennis" is not very subtle.

Also bump.

[shoopy]

Originally posted by Tsar Butterfly:

Originally posted by Lob:

Whoa haha imagine a game where there's like two paddles and they play tennis with each other that would be PRETTY CRAZY bro haha

If you're going to be a smug smart ass at least do it right. Alluding to tennis by saying "playing tennis" is not very subtle.

Also bump.

I don't think they're alluding to tennis. I think they're alluding to Pong.

[Azor]

I believe that an issue with removing hitscan, in a multiplayer shooter, is it severly limits the player's arsenal or the variety of classes and a developer's ability to come up with new content, while it is probably required for a multiplayer to thrive to have constant updates with new content (at least until it is added hundreds of content).

[SR71BB]

Planetside 2 does not have hitscan. Every bullet exists in the game. Each gun fires a bullet with a different mass and velocity. Each one has a different amount of bullet drop. Each gun has a different amount and type of recoil. Planetside 2 requires the most amount of skill I have ever seen from a game. It’s the greatest game I have ever played. It also holds the Guinness world record for the most amount of players in a battle. It has 4 continents, each being around 62^2 km in size which can accommodate up to 1,200 players at once.

[green]

Nice necro...As for the topic, Borderlands doesn't have hitscan. It can be done.

[HE❌EN]

What about Armed Assault 3?

[Not Big Surprise]

Superhot.