So..... Anyone heard of 2K hiring goons to intimidate a borderlands youtuber?

[Func_Ladder]

So apparently 2K, the publisher for borderlands 3, hired two private investigators to intimidate some youtuber named "SupMatto" for "leaking" info about Borderlands 3.

But this isn't the first time 2K has done this.

A little flashback to 2015

If your in the gta 5 modding community you should know that your not welcome it 2K's world.

2K hates modders so much that back in 2015 2K hired PI's to a gta 5 modder's house for making a moddable version of gta online for private severs. 2K's reason for hiring people to go harass someone was that the mod was "promoting piracy," even though the mod required the game to function properly.

If you want to read more about this incident here is a article about it.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-11-10-take-two-sends-private-investigators-to-gta5-modders-home-report

Now this might sound like this incident should have caused a big outrage strom, it didn't. Mostly due to media company's not picking the story up.

Now back to the main topic

Now back to the main topic. So, why did 2K hire goons to go to SupMatto's house? Well it started out on twitch, basically SupMatto noticed a test account, what he assumed to be some sort of secret thing that the Borderlands 3 PR team made as apart of some sort of marketing campaign.

But it turned out that it wasn't that, it was what i can only assume that the account was made to test upcoming streams.

So a few days latter he noticed that the account was streaming, and decided to watch it. The stream was set to private, so he didn't see anything important, but he did see the thumbnail, and then SupMatto made video talking about the thumbnail.

A day or two latter two PI's were banging at his door asking questions.

And 2K didn't want this news coming out so they nuked his twitter and discord and mass flagged most of his videos.

The impact

Now this would have just faded into the background like the gta 5 modder incident, but SubMatto made a video talking about it and it got some traction, and then a few other youtuber's made videos about it, and the controversy got enough traction that #BoycottBorderlands3 became trending on twitter.

Then IGN made a article about it, was mostly dismissed by people as being biased or something.

Borderlands 3 has gone through a lot of controversy the past few months, from it becoming a epic exclusive, to randy's fits on twitter, and now this. I have no doubts that Borderlands 3 is going to sell well, i would be surprised if it failed. But thanks to these events the good will for this game for some people has been soiled damp yellow and isn't coming out easily.

Some sources

SupMatto's video. (To be honest this video will probably will be taken down sometime soon.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRR-C1OCIWM&feature=youtu.be

Three videos about the situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzV_Ps52hyk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kmC0NZShfM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQUVXGgr5lQ

Honestly i'm just posting this video here because i think its relevant to the situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsUuhW7WbIg

And the IGN article, ill let you decide if its good or not.
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/08/07/take-two-addresses-investigation-into-borderlands-3-streamer-leaks

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

TLDR version - guy apparently had an inside source that broke NDA and stole info, then he illegally accessed some private twitch channels via a security exploit, then got banned from discord for selling access to said confidential information and then he removed his own twitter and video pages after getting paid a visit by two investigators who were looking into the data breach who were by all accounts polite and did not attempt to intimidate him at all.

Apparently youtubers complaining when they get busted receiving stolen information is news these days. Go figuire.

Its a lot more indepth than that.
The exploit was used and abused by more than just him.
He wasn't the first to report on the leaks and he held off on doing so.
The Know reported the leaks first (a MUCH bigger channel) then he reported on it after they did.

He has nothing to do with NDAs at all. He never signed anything stating he would not discuss on these matters.

Since there is no backdooring or hacking involved or payment for information from an inside source regarding BL3s he is pretty safe from all of that. Twitch is not a secure platform and streaming a 'private' event of your game should not be a thing on a platform known for security issues and double standards all around. If you were going to display your game to shareholders or investors or whoever they were doing it for there are much more secure telecoms that exist with a lot more bandwidth and higher quality resolutions. Not to mention you should be well aware of who is watching in at any given time as it literally shows all connected users and guest, it seems like it was unprofessional handling of the whole thing on Twitch and Gearbox/2K/etc. Being a former networking specialist, every time we did telecoms we watched everyone who was listening in via IPs and all unauthorized connections were booted... it seems very unprofessional of a multi-million dollar company to be that insecure.

Now the discord thing, completely agree though.... but right now those are claims with no actual proof. They shut down his discord server and stated an investigation would be done on it and so far they haven't mentioned anything related to him selling information if they pay $5 and sub to him. He admitted to charging money to his private discord where they discuss and theorize BL3. Which... that isn't a crime, even if the discussion is leaked information.

There is a lot more than this though than that one article though. It all seems shady and I still don't really know whose said I'm on but, I'm just trying to give you food for thought.

(Cycling back to the Twitch thing though, yea its still wrong.... but to harass one of numerous reported others, including a MUCH larger news outlet who reported on the leak first, but not the rest seems a bit scummy)

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

I just think its incredibly scummy that The Know covered the leaks first and that guy did it second and nothing is being remotely done to The Know while DMCA take downs are hitting his channel.

I guess since he did 4 years of content and doesn't even have 500 subs that thought they could just bully him....

With the game going to Epic stores first for 6 months and Randy's jerkish comment about it I was going to wait for it to be on Steam.... but now I don't even know if I even care to support such crap. Yeah... the game looks like its going to be amazing like BL1 and BL2 was but I'm kinda over still buying products from companies that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about their fans.

Not to mention, the exclusive deal was a REAL ♥♥♥♥ move considering Valve was the one who gave Randy and Gearbox Software their big break by allowing them to be the ONLY company to officially make Half Life sequels and this is kinda of what they do....

Randy stealing from his own employee's bonuses, screwing over the people who made them big so they can get free money..... Gearbox is turning out to be the new EA.... right along with Epic and Bethesda.

Actually SupMatto's already said that 2k did NOT take down most of his videos and that he did them himself but don't let facts get in your way.

Also SupMatto's was under investigation for over 10 months related to older leaks and stuff he had did and how he was getting access to the info, part of which involved him using an exploit in twitters's security to access information he wasn't supposed to be able to. It wasn't related to 1 specific leak.

He was also SELLING access to the leaked info and making a profit off of it which is why he was banned by Discord for violating their terms.

So completely different scenarios.

You're coming off as an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥... right after I wrote a long civilized debate to you too.
FACTS are that there were numerous other DMCA hits last night on his channel.
So unless there is a video in the last 20 hours of him saying that.... then yea, don't let facts get in your way either.

Here is what happened. They DMCA 7 of his videos. Removed 6 of the DMCAs then did another DMCA mass strike days later. Yea... 'facts' are important to you. They even announced who was doing the DMCA claims too..... a 2K named account KNOWN to do other DMCA legal taken downs in the past.... and isn't a fake account but an account linked to 2K themselves.

About the 10month investigation... funny, The Know still did the very leak in question before that 10 month mark. I guess digging for actual answers isn't your thing and you just read half of a story and take it at face value and run with it. Its okay, its the internet, I expect people like you to do this.

And no, he wasn't selling access to leaked information. He was selling access to his private discord where they discussed BL3 and theorize it. There is a difference for selling information and giving access to a private discussion. Right now there is no proof of him word for word selling leaked information for money, just access to a channel that talks about leaks. Known leaks or unknown leaks it doesnt matter..... leaks were already being talked about on public channels already.

I think you need to not be so white knightish of things you dont really care to fully explore....

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

TLDR version - guy apparently had an inside source that broke NDA and stole info, then he illegally accessed some private twitch channels via a security exploit, then got banned from discord for selling access to said confidential information and then he removed his own twitter and video pages after getting paid a visit by two investigators who were looking into the data breach who were by all accounts polite and did not attempt to intimidate him at all.

Apparently youtubers complaining when they get busted receiving stolen information is news these days. Go figuire.

Its a lot more indepth than that.
The exploit was used and abused by more than just him.
He wasn't the first to report on the leaks and he held off on doing so.
The Know reported the leaks first (a MUCH bigger channel) then he reported on it after they did.

He has nothing to do with NDAs at all. He never signed anything stating he would not discuss on these matters.

Since there is no backdooring or hacking involved or payment for information from an inside source regarding BL3s he is pretty safe from all of that. Twitch is not a secure platform and streaming a 'private' event of your game should not be a thing on a platform known for security issues and double standards all around. If you were going to display your game to shareholders or investors or whoever they were doing it for there are much more secure telecoms that exist with a lot more bandwidth and higher quality resolutions. Not to mention you should be well aware of who is watching in at any given time as it literally shows all connected users and guest, it seems like it was unprofessional handling of the whole thing on Twitch and Gearbox/2K/etc. Being a former networking specialist, every time we did telecoms we watched everyone who was listening in via IPs and all unauthorized connections were booted... it seems very unprofessional of a multi-million dollar company to be that insecure.

Now the discord thing, completely agree though.... but right now those are claims with no actual proof. They shut down his discord server and stated an investigation would be done on it and so far they haven't mentioned anything related to him selling information if they pay $5 and sub to him. He admitted to charging money to his private discord where they discuss and theorize BL3. Which... that isn't a crime, even if the discussion is leaked information.

There is a lot more than this though than that one article though. It all seems shady and I still don't really know whose said I'm on but, I'm just trying to give you food for thought.

(Cycling back to the Twitch thing though, yea its still wrong.... but to harass one of numerous reported others, including a MUCH larger news outlet who reported on the leak first, but not the rest seems a bit scummy)

Yeah but remember he was under investigation BEFORE the whole twitch thing. He released insider info before the game was even announced.

So they were looking at him and trying to see how he was getting confidential info (from people who had signed NDA's).

He can still get in legal trouble for recieving and disseminating confidential information, especially if they can show that he knew the information was sent to him illegally or in violation of NDA's.

Again though its not harassment. They sent two people to talk to him and he willingly talked to them. Private Investigators are licensed and 100% legal. He had the option of saying no and refusing to talk to them, but instead he chose to talk to them.

He wasn't threatened, stalked, or had anything remotely illegal done to him.

[Brian9824]

https://www.vg247.com/2019/08/08/borderlands-3-supmatto-private-investigators-take-two-leaks/

nterestingly, Twitch and Discord were both also investigating SupMatto. Discord actually deleted the YouTuber’s private server for “selling, promoting, or distributing cheats, hacks, or cracked accounts.” According to IGN, SupMatto shared more leaks through the server for a $5 subscription to his channel.

Again facts are facts. Unless you want to claim that its a massive conspiracy between 2k, twitch, and discord and they are all in cahoots to target a poor innocent streamer who did nothing wrong.

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Its a lot more indepth than that.
The exploit was used and abused by more than just him.
He wasn't the first to report on the leaks and he held off on doing so.
The Know reported the leaks first (a MUCH bigger channel) then he reported on it after they did.

He has nothing to do with NDAs at all. He never signed anything stating he would not discuss on these matters.

Since there is no backdooring or hacking involved or payment for information from an inside source regarding BL3s he is pretty safe from all of that. Twitch is not a secure platform and streaming a 'private' event of your game should not be a thing on a platform known for security issues and double standards all around. If you were going to display your game to shareholders or investors or whoever they were doing it for there are much more secure telecoms that exist with a lot more bandwidth and higher quality resolutions. Not to mention you should be well aware of who is watching in at any given time as it literally shows all connected users and guest, it seems like it was unprofessional handling of the whole thing on Twitch and Gearbox/2K/etc. Being a former networking specialist, every time we did telecoms we watched everyone who was listening in via IPs and all unauthorized connections were booted... it seems very unprofessional of a multi-million dollar company to be that insecure.

Now the discord thing, completely agree though.... but right now those are claims with no actual proof. They shut down his discord server and stated an investigation would be done on it and so far they haven't mentioned anything related to him selling information if they pay $5 and sub to him. He admitted to charging money to his private discord where they discuss and theorize BL3. Which... that isn't a crime, even if the discussion is leaked information.

There is a lot more than this though than that one article though. It all seems shady and I still don't really know whose said I'm on but, I'm just trying to give you food for thought.

(Cycling back to the Twitch thing though, yea its still wrong.... but to harass one of numerous reported others, including a MUCH larger news outlet who reported on the leak first, but not the rest seems a bit scummy)

Yeah but remember he was under investigation BEFORE the whole twitch thing. He released insider info before the game was even announced.

So they were looking at him and trying to see how he was getting confidential info (from people who had signed NDA's).

He can still get in legal trouble for recieving and disseminating confidential information, especially if they can show that he knew the information was sent to him illegally or in violation of NDA's.

Again though its not harassment. They sent two people to talk to him and he willingly talked to them. Private Investigators are licensed and 100% legal. He had the option of saying no and refusing to talk to them, but instead he chose to talk to them.

He wasn't threatened, stalked, or had anything remotely illegal done to him.

As for the whole confidential information. Again, didn't sign any document what so ever discussing he wouldnt talk about such things.

If he didnt buy the information, bribe for it, hack then its is legal to discuss.
Believe me, I checked. This is because all he has to do is claim, that someone talked about it and he over heard or that the information was already publicly accessible (which in this case it was)

If he did bribe, buy, hack then theres legal grounds.

Basically, you are saying it was illegal for people who bought the russian leaked HL2 game to discuss it. (It was released a year before HL2 because Valve's servers were compromised and they pieced together the game themselves and sold it)

Everyone who unknownly bought the faked HL2 would be liable for insider information as you claim.

This is why the law is not so broad on this topic as things of this nature can happen and why so very few cases go to court and even fewer are successful....

YES. There is the argument of him using the exploit and discussing those leaks, but again... it was already public when he chose to discuss those leaks.
I'm sure you're going to string together some witty replies but I'm not going to stick around in this discussion. I originally just wanted to correct your information and say my overall view on it, not get into a whole 'fact-check' war with you.

[Plaid]

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Its a lot more indepth than that.
The exploit was used and abused by more than just him.
He wasn't the first to report on the leaks and he held off on doing so.
The Know reported the leaks first (a MUCH bigger channel) then he reported on it after they did.

He has nothing to do with NDAs at all. He never signed anything stating he would not discuss on these matters.

Since there is no backdooring or hacking involved or payment for information from an inside source regarding BL3s he is pretty safe from all of that. Twitch is not a secure platform and streaming a 'private' event of your game should not be a thing on a platform known for security issues and double standards all around. If you were going to display your game to shareholders or investors or whoever they were doing it for there are much more secure telecoms that exist with a lot more bandwidth and higher quality resolutions. Not to mention you should be well aware of who is watching in at any given time as it literally shows all connected users and guest, it seems like it was unprofessional handling of the whole thing on Twitch and Gearbox/2K/etc. Being a former networking specialist, every time we did telecoms we watched everyone who was listening in via IPs and all unauthorized connections were booted... it seems very unprofessional of a multi-million dollar company to be that insecure.

Now the discord thing, completely agree though.... but right now those are claims with no actual proof. They shut down his discord server and stated an investigation would be done on it and so far they haven't mentioned anything related to him selling information if they pay $5 and sub to him. He admitted to charging money to his private discord where they discuss and theorize BL3. Which... that isn't a crime, even if the discussion is leaked information.

There is a lot more than this though than that one article though. It all seems shady and I still don't really know whose said I'm on but, I'm just trying to give you food for thought.

(Cycling back to the Twitch thing though, yea its still wrong.... but to harass one of numerous reported others, including a MUCH larger news outlet who reported on the leak first, but not the rest seems a bit scummy)

Yeah but remember he was under investigation BEFORE the whole twitch thing. He released insider info before the game was even announced.

So they were looking at him and trying to see how he was getting confidential info (from people who had signed NDA's).

He can still get in legal trouble for recieving and disseminating confidential information, especially if they can show that he knew the information was sent to him illegally or in violation of NDA's.

Again though its not harassment. They sent two people to talk to him and he willingly talked to them. Private Investigators are licensed and 100% legal. He had the option of saying no and refusing to talk to them, but instead he chose to talk to them.

He wasn't threatened, stalked, or had anything remotely illegal done to him.

Receiving information is not illegal, neither is posting it.

[Arnie Rimsy BSc.SSc.]

Publicado originalmente por Plaid:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Yeah but remember he was under investigation BEFORE the whole twitch thing. He released insider info before the game was even announced.

So they were looking at him and trying to see how he was getting confidential info (from people who had signed NDA's).

He can still get in legal trouble for recieving and disseminating confidential information, especially if they can show that he knew the information was sent to him illegally or in violation of NDA's.

Again though its not harassment. They sent two people to talk to him and he willingly talked to them. Private Investigators are licensed and 100% legal. He had the option of saying no and refusing to talk to them, but instead he chose to talk to them.

He wasn't threatened, stalked, or had anything remotely illegal done to him.

Receiving information is not illegal, neither is posting it.

How dare you question their supreme knowledge sir

[ChillCore]

Publicado originalmente por Radene:

Ahhh, internet. Blowing everything out of proportion.

Yeah ...
Untill them goons show up at your door ...

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Publicado originalmente por Plaid:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Yeah but remember he was under investigation BEFORE the whole twitch thing. He released insider info before the game was even announced.

So they were looking at him and trying to see how he was getting confidential info (from people who had signed NDA's).

He can still get in legal trouble for recieving and disseminating confidential information, especially if they can show that he knew the information was sent to him illegally or in violation of NDA's.

Again though its not harassment. They sent two people to talk to him and he willingly talked to them. Private Investigators are licensed and 100% legal. He had the option of saying no and refusing to talk to them, but instead he chose to talk to them.

He wasn't threatened, stalked, or had anything remotely illegal done to him.

Receiving information is not illegal, neither is posting it.

Yeah, he doesn't really care for actually looking up the laws it seems.

Oh well, in my last post I discussed the leaked sold in stories HL2 game as an example of how it isn't illegal because of situations like that.

[Radene]

Publicado originalmente por ChillCore:

Publicado originalmente por Radene:

Ahhh, internet. Blowing everything out of proportion.

Yeah ...
Untill them goons show up at your door ...

Which ones?

Publicado originalmente por Plaid:

Publicado originalmente por brian9824:

Yeah but remember he was under investigation BEFORE the whole twitch thing. He released insider info before the game was even announced.

So they were looking at him and trying to see how he was getting confidential info (from people who had signed NDA's).

He can still get in legal trouble for recieving and disseminating confidential information, especially if they can show that he knew the information was sent to him illegally or in violation of NDA's.

Again though its not harassment. They sent two people to talk to him and he willingly talked to them. Private Investigators are licensed and 100% legal. He had the option of saying no and refusing to talk to them, but instead he chose to talk to them.

He wasn't threatened, stalked, or had anything remotely illegal done to him.

Receiving information is not illegal, neither is posting it.

Which is why Assange is a free man and not persecuted at all.

[Arnie Rimsy BSc.SSc.]

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Publicado originalmente por Plaid:

Receiving information is not illegal, neither is posting it.

Yeah, he doesn't really care for actually looking up the laws it seems.

Oh well, in my last post I discussed the leaked sold in stories HL2 game as an example of how it isn't illegal because of situations like that.

Well apparently everyone is bound to some one else's NDA so no one can talk about nothing ever. No ifs or buts.

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Publicado originalmente por Radene:

Publicado originalmente por ChillCore:

Yeah ...
Untill them goons show up at your door ...

Publicado originalmente por Plaid:

Receiving information is not illegal, neither is posting it.

Which is why Assange is a free man and not persecuted at all.

There is a difference between State Secrets and Company Secrets....
One affects national security.... the other.... well I'm not going to keep trying to sell you on this... I mean.... thats a pretty rough comparison to make and thats covered under a completely different law about government information and disclosing it.

[Radene]

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Publicado originalmente por Radene:

Which is why Assange is a free man and not persecuted at all.

There is a difference between State Secrets and Company Secrets....
One affects national security.... the other.... well I'm not going to keep trying to sell you on this... I mean.... thats a pretty rough comparison to make and thats covered under a completely different law about government information and disclosing it.

I'm sure if someone posted the recipe for Coca-cola online they would also be a free man and not persecuted at all.

Or hm, if they cracked a game and posted it online - that's also "information"...

[talemore]

Which one was the bad and the good cop. You don't need to be two unless you want to impress superiority.

[Radene]

Publicado originalmente por talemore:

Which one was the bad and the good cop. You don't need to be two unless you want to impress superiority.

That's not why cops are put in pairs, no matter what Hollywood would want you to believe.