This "Entitled Gamers" thing is dumb

[𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼]

I think this "Entitled Gamers" is just a thing people who do not care about games or videos games like to say. I have seen this stuff with epic and other things lately being said and frankly I just found it dumb and wanted to see if others felt the same way.

- Gamers are consumers and have every right to have expectations for products they are paying for.

- If game companies use anti consumer practices and get criticism for it they deserve it as their job is to sell a product and if you want to sell that product you should try and make it worth buying otherwise if they are not willing to do that then they deserve all the criticism they get.

[8ullfrog]

I do not think this thread is Spam. I do think it's title is past the red line on clickbait, but that's between OP and themselves.

I had never heard of Ooblets prior to the "Death Threat Controversy". I am not surprised they would get death threats, there are an endless number of immature idiots on the internet.

I do think it is weird that this game I never heard of is suddenly popping in the news for signing an exclusivity contract.

Then I see the Tim Sweeny reaction, and it starts to make sense. Any publicity for Epic is desirable, and so this story pops.

I believe that with the Women Ghostbusters situation, they were expecting a Bridesmaids reception paired with the tie-in power of the original brand. When they realized that the film that was turned in was, to be polite "Not good." they pivoted to the "THIS IS MYSOGYNY, NO ONE IS GIVING THE FILM A CHANCE!" angle.

God that's a weird word. Passes spellcheck, doesn't look like it should.


Epic wishes they were EA.

[Daxank]

Publicado originalmente por iza:

Because these particular "gamers" are vastly toxic? If I develop a game and pull an Epic Store move so I can feed my family, I do not wish to receive death threats. Why is that considered okay?

But you do realize that Epic only pays for "expected lost sales"
In a sense, you don't really get more money, you just get instant gratification in order to not give a ♥♥♥♥ about what your potential customers could expect from you.

[iza]

Publicado originalmente por Daxank:

Publicado originalmente por iza:

Because these particular "gamers" are vastly toxic? If I develop a game and pull an Epic Store move so I can feed my family, I do not wish to receive death threats. Why is that considered okay?

But you do realize that Epic only pays for "expected lost sales"
In a sense, you don't really get more money, you just get instant gratification in order to not give a ♥♥♥♥ about what your potential customers could expect from you.

You don't seem to understand this situation because you never had to turn the penny to pay your bills or work your ass off, because that's what it sounds like.

Here is the real world: these 2 particular indie devs spent years on creating a game, perhaps they've studied it before and followed their dreams. I'm 100% certain it'll make certain people happy and they've a very good time playing it. But this playerbase is not big, it wouldnt be big on Steam either because Steam doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ about indies. They just don't.

Now they gained Epic's attention. Money is tight and they can see that Epic is able to provide for potential losses... and make up for it. It is just a time exclusive on top of that, so people can buy the game.. after a while. But I was able to feed my family and I was able to have a secure place for a longer while, providing potential updates or perhaps working on a new game.

Most people can't reflect, I get that and I definitely don't support the idea of Epic, especially Tim Sweeney, since he has a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of money and doesnt feel like changing the fact that his employees are working their asses off.

You guys don't like Jason Schreier, but he's atleast trying to deliver the situation and explains it very well. One day you guys won't have any indie games left and wonder why there are either AAA titles or complete shovelware.

[whatamidoing]

Publicado originalmente por iza:

Publicado originalmente por Daxank:

But you do realize that Epic only pays for "expected lost sales"
In a sense, you don't really get more money, you just get instant gratification in order to not give a ♥♥♥♥ about what your potential customers could expect from you.

You don't seem to understand this situation because you never had to turn the penny to pay your bills or work your ass off, because that's what it sounds like.

Here is the real world: these 2 particular indie devs spent years on creating a game, perhaps they've studied it before and followed their dreams. I'm 100% certain it'll make certain people happy and they've a very good time playing it. But this playerbase is not big, it wouldnt be big on Steam either because Steam doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ about indies. They just don't.

I'm gonna stop you right there
https://store.steampowered.com/app/593150/Ooblets/

[Daxank]

Publicado originalmente por iza:

Publicado originalmente por Daxank:

But you do realize that Epic only pays for "expected lost sales"
In a sense, you don't really get more money, you just get instant gratification in order to not give a ♥♥♥♥ about what your potential customers could expect from you.

You don't seem to understand this situation because you never had to turn the penny to pay your bills or work your ass off, because that's what it sounds like.

Here is the real world: these 2 particular indie devs spent years on creating a game, perhaps they've studied it before and followed their dreams. I'm 100% certain it'll make certain people happy and they've a very good time playing it. But this playerbase is not big, it wouldnt be big on Steam either because Steam doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ about indies. They just don't.

Now they gained Epic's attention. Money is tight and they can see that Epic is able to provide for potential losses... and make up for it. It is just a time exclusive on top of that, so people can buy the game.. after a while. But I was able to feed my family and I was able to have a secure place for a longer while, providing potential updates or perhaps working on a new game.

Most people can't reflect, I get that and I definitely don't support the idea of Epic, especially Tim Sweeney, since he has a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of money and doesnt feel like changing the fact that his employees are working their asses off.

You guys don't like Jason Schreier, but he's atleast trying to deliver the situation and explains it very well. One day you guys won't have any indie games left and wonder why there are either AAA titles or complete shovelware.

They had over 1000 patrons on patreon during the time they were developing the game.
One of the two apparently also had no financial trouble with transitioning to another gender.
I don't think money was that much of a problem.

[Your_White_Knight]

Publicado originalmente por Mikan Tsumiki:

I think this "Entitled Gamers" is just a thing people who do not care about games or videos games like to say. I have seen this stuff with epic and other things lately being said and frankly I just found it dumb and wanted to see if others felt the same way.

- Gamers are consumers and have every right to have expectations for products they are paying for.

- If game companies use anti consumer practices and get criticism for it they deserve it as their job is to sell a product and if you want to sell that product you should try and make it worth buying otherwise if they are not willing to do that then they deserve all the criticism they get.

There is enough fault to go around Gamers and Developers alike....

There are some extremely bad Developers... and some extremely bad Entitled Gamers. Consumers have the right to expectations... WITHIN reason, and most lately do not keep within reason.

As for the "anti consumer practices and get criticism for it they deserve it" there's also gamers who think that they can write negative reviews that have very little facts or relevance, and think the Developer can't comment or reply back...

Don't get me wrong... some Developers aren't saints.. but one just can't lump anything they don't like on Developers and demand unrealistic expectations for it. And some Developers do deserve all they get coming to them in lack of sales... it's not all cut and dry, and it's getting angry about it enough to start attacking people over it is the worst way of going about it.... just proving how sick the world is.

But yes, there are plenty of Entitled Gamers out there.... time for people to get over themselves.

[iza]

Publicado originalmente por Daxank:

Publicado originalmente por iza:

You don't seem to understand this situation because you never had to turn the penny to pay your bills or work your ass off, because that's what it sounds like.

Here is the real world: these 2 particular indie devs spent years on creating a game, perhaps they've studied it before and followed their dreams. I'm 100% certain it'll make certain people happy and they've a very good time playing it. But this playerbase is not big, it wouldnt be big on Steam either because Steam doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ about indies. They just don't.

Now they gained Epic's attention. Money is tight and they can see that Epic is able to provide for potential losses... and make up for it. It is just a time exclusive on top of that, so people can buy the game.. after a while. But I was able to feed my family and I was able to have a secure place for a longer while, providing potential updates or perhaps working on a new game.

Most people can't reflect, I get that and I definitely don't support the idea of Epic, especially Tim Sweeney, since he has a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of money and doesnt feel like changing the fact that his employees are working their asses off.

You guys don't like Jason Schreier, but he's atleast trying to deliver the situation and explains it very well. One day you guys won't have any indie games left and wonder why there are either AAA titles or complete shovelware.

They had over 1000 patrons on patreon during the time they were developing the game.
One of the two apparently also had no financial trouble with transitioning to another gender.
I don't think money was that much of a problem.

And money afterwards? The following years? Do you think they keep this number for the next 10 years?

[Daxank]

Publicado originalmente por iza:

Publicado originalmente por Daxank:

They had over 1000 patrons on patreon during the time they were developing the game.
One of the two apparently also had no financial trouble with transitioning to another gender.
I don't think money was that much of a problem.

And money afterwards? The following years? Do you think they keep this number for the next 10 years?

But again, they were still getting money every single month.
And now they got paid for expected lost sales (probably calculated based on the number of people who put the game on their wishlist (such as myself)) and estimations for the windows store.
They were getting paid and decided to say "Hey, steam customers and patrons! ♥♥♥♥ your money! We got paid a ♥♥♥♥ ton instantly to go on another platform for a year and if you're scared of being hacked or your country isn't supported by EGS or the regional prices are garbage there.... well tough ♥♥♥♥, we believe your only problem is that it's only another launcher! So grow up"
I wish I was exaggerating a whole lot here, but I'm not, this is pretty much the whole situation right there.

[Kargor]

Publicado originalmente por ヘイズデビル:

Publicado originalmente por TheRandomGuy:

It's the most recent gaming controversy.

...

Now the developers are crying to media outlets about how badly gamers are treating them, after they poked the hornet's nest by insulting them.

That's basically the gist of it, anyways.

I see, that's very nice of you to explain it for me.

Luckily, I don't even read gaming news. All that, terminology and story alike, are completely new to me too...

[8ullfrog]

It's not news, it's feels.

[Plaid]

Maybe this is actually Epic's long term plan. Telling people things are in the pipeline, only to hook em on the line with that exclusivity barb. "Where else you gonna go? Muhahahahha".

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

I just want to point out a big cause of problems on the internet.

See this video? Just look at the title. One need not even watch the video to notice this problem.

Publicado originalmente por Florida Man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN47gokWMKg

Look at this. It's not "THIS dev" (and whatever media organizations are specifically involved, as applicable) vs. "THESE gamers".

It's "DEVS" and "MEDIA" vs. "GAMERS". As if all the devs and all the media are out to get all the gamers.

Dangit, please, STOP LUMPING EVERYONE TOGETHER. PLEASE. THANK YOU.

I didn't become a gamer to be someone's pawn or shield or whatever in their internet beef with someone else. I ain't joining these silly crusades.

[𝔼ℂℂℍ𝕀 ℤ𝕆ℕ𝔼]

Publicado originalmente por iza:

Publicado originalmente por Daxank:

They had over 1000 patrons on patreon during the time they were developing the game.
One of the two apparently also had no financial trouble with transitioning to another gender.
I don't think money was that much of a problem.

And money afterwards? The following years? Do you think they keep this number for the next 10 years?

Being a dev is a job if they are not able to produce something people want to buy then maybe its time to find another job to be honest. Of course they have every right to choose epic game store and get the money epic payed them but that doesn't mean they are free from criticism and people boycotting them for what they choose or how they behave. If you push away the people who support you and not give them reasons to want to stay with you then that really isn't anyone's problem but their own in the end.

[Florida Man]

Publicado originalmente por شيطان إلهة:

Florida Man ... I don't know why, but you're becoming more and more somebody I want to read more from. Please. And no, that's no sarcasm.

Well thank you! I know that not everybody here agrees, but that's fine. My opinions and questions aren't hurting anybody and I'm not going to play the fence on something I feel just because of fear of someone not liking me or moderation because I brought up a topic.

I do my best to follow the rules, but that one dude back last 4th of July who unironically told people who liked guns to "KTS" got banned and he eventually outlived his ban anyway, so I'm sure I'll eventually live out whatever ban they give me for any problematic post I make, like I have for all my other reasonable bans.

Publicado originalmente por Quint the Alligator Snapper:

I just want to point out a big cause of problems on the internet.

See this video? Just look at the title. Don't even bother watching.

Publicado originalmente por Florida Man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN47gokWMKg

Look at this. It's not "THIS dev" (and whatever media organizations are specifically involved, as applicable) vs. "THESE gamers".

It's "DEVS" and "MEDIA" vs. "GAMERS". As if all the devs and all the media are out to get all the gamers.

Essentially every major game company and every major gaming publication has been doing the "blame the players" problem. EA doesn't understand why they're "the bad guys", Bethesda released Fallout 76 (Hope you enjoy your $60 game that went for $30 in less than two weeks and your canvas bag that's really made out of nylon.) The simple fact is, it's probably easier to list the entities that haven't basically acted as if they're own audience aren't garbage. Outside of games, movies seem to be made specifically to piss off people (Thor: Love and Blunder's director, anyone?). Every time you turn around, something is the fault of horrible, man-baby, trump supporting, gun loving, racist, sexist, anti-sufferagette, basement-dwelling, cheeto-eating, fat losers on the internet who are apparently millions strong (according to Dan "Crystal Skull Vodka" Akroyd) and are tyrants against these multi-billion dollar companies who are utterly powerless against them .......

You know what I miss? When the people who made movies and games kept their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mouths shut (not counting John Romero during the Daikatana days), just worried about making their product, almost never responded to the random petty criticism that floats around out there (unless it was big enough to warrant addressing, doing so in a typically professional manner) and just worried about releasing a good product.

You're welcome to not watch the video, but at least let other people watch it and come to that decision on their own. Thanks. :^)



EDIT:

Publicado originalmente por Mikan Tsumiki:

Being a dev is a job if they are not able to produce something people want to buy then maybe its time to find another job to be honest. Of course they have every right to choose epic game store and get the money epic payed them but that doesn't mean they are free from criticism and people boycotting them for what they choose or how they behave. If you push away the people who support you and not give them reasons to want to stay with you then that really isn't anyone's problem but their own in the end.

I'm not angry at the devs for taking the Epic exclusivity deal. I'm not even angry at the one paragraph from the Oobliets dev that reasonably addressed their decision to take the deal. It's all their own entitled, antagonistic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ throughout the rest of that statement that makes them a bunch of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Had they used any form of tact, they could have made the whole thing go away, there would be rumbling from random weirdos and it would eventually have blown over - but if you try and put out a smoldering burn with gasoline, you're gonna get ya face burnt.

It's amazing the difference a little bit of discretion and non-hostile forwardness can make to your public perception. (something I know lots about, obviously lol)

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Publicado originalmente por Florida Man:

Publicado originalmente por Quint the Alligator Snapper:

I just want to point out a big cause of problems on the internet.

See this video? Just look at the title. Don't even bother watching.


Look at this. It's not "THIS dev" (and whatever media organizations are specifically involved, as applicable) vs. "THESE gamers".

It's "DEVS" and "MEDIA" vs. "GAMERS". As if all the devs and all the media are out to get all the gamers.

Essentially every major game company and every major gaming publication has been doing the "blame the players" problem. EA doesn't understand why they're "the bad guys", Bethesda released Fallout 76 (Hope you enjoy your $60 game that went for $30 in less than two weeks and your canvas bag that's really made out of nylon.) The simple fact is, it's probably easier to list the entities that haven't basically acted as if they're own audience aren't garbage. Outside of games, movies seem to be made specifically to piss off people (Thor: Love and Blunder's director, anyone?). Every time you turn around, something is the fault of horrible, man-baby, trump supporting, gun loving, racist, sexist, anti-sufferagette, basement-dwelling, cheeto-eating, fat losers on the internet who are apparently millions strong (according to Dan "Crystal Skull Vodka" Akroyd) and are tyrants against these multi-billion dollar companies who are utterly powerless against them .......

I have no love for a number of major game companies, but I haven't noticed any of the stuff you're talking about. And definitely not "every time I turn around".

And I'm wondering whether you're seeing stuff through an unnecessary culture war lens. Particularly given how you've just lumped a whole bunch of things together like that.



On the other hand I DO see a lot of people irrationally angry at their entertainment.

Publicado originalmente por Florida Man:

You know what I miss? When the people who made movies and games kept their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mouths shut (not counting John Romero during the Daikatana days), just worried about making their product, almost never responded to the random petty criticism that floats around out there (unless it was big enough to warrant addressing, doing so in a typically professional manner) and just worried about releasing a good product.

To be fair, there was also a lot less "random petty criticism" floating around back in the day.

The internet has basically encouraged people to be obnoxiously impatient, and given them the echochambers to make them feel justified in their impatience.

Beyond that, I don't see any reason that artists should not have opinions. I'm welcome to disagree with them, as is anyone else.

Publicado originalmente por Florida Man:

EDIT: Also, as a topic refresher: I'm not angry at the devs for taking the Epic exclusivity deal. I'm not even angry at the one paragraph from the Oobliets dev that reasonably addressed their decision to take the deal. It's all their own entitled, antagonistic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ throughout the rest of that statement that makes them a bunch of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Honestly I'm not angry at the deal either; it's just that Epic's CEO seems to enjoy being a jackass about stuff, so that's one great reason for me to never give his company any money.