DEATH STRANDING

[Asterix]

GOOD GAME

[TheOrangeBox]

Escrito originalmente por Lar Dass:

This new trend on making DS threads while the salty kucknami employees remove them is amusing
And agree! Compare ds to survive and it is laughable difference

That absolutely confirm to what extent people go achieving nothing -

[Lexal]

I know I crapped on his skills in another thread, but the themes and meta he talks about are always good food for thought, it's just the overall writing and dialogues that are desperately in need of a good editor, because it seems to me that he's still - obviously - succumbing to the Japanese way of video game storytelling, aka to make every piece of spoken/written dialogue extremely redundant.

[TheOrangeBox]

yeah - the way they tell a story has a lots of intricacy that are not always clear at first using words - even the translation from the Japanese language to English (or any other latin language) can be challenging - but the art style is fantastic

[brawler]

what the hell is going on

[Asterix]

Escrito originalmente por Brawler:

what the hell is going on

Death Stranding
Directed by
Hideo Kojima

[TheOrangeBox]

Escrito originalmente por Asterix:

Escrito originalmente por Brawler:

what the hell is going on

Death Stranding
Directed by
Hideo Kojima

A Kojima Productions

[abcd]

Escrito originalmente por Lexal:

I know I crapped on his skills in another thread, but the themes and meta he talks about are always good food for thought, it's just the overall writing and dialogues that are desperately in need of a good editor, because it seems to me that he's still - obviously - succumbing to the Japanese way of video game storytelling, aka to make every piece of spoken/written dialogue extremely redundant.

Have you considered that the editors' and the writers' jobs are to ape that style in order to ready the game for market? Lots of media with subversive ideas wind up doing the same thing in reverse.

[Asterix]

What's gonna be GOTY2019 and why's it Death Stranding ?

[Lexal]

Escrito originalmente por tausoldier:

Have you considered that the editors' and the writers' jobs are to ape that style in order to ready the game for market? Lots of media with subversive ideas wind up doing the same thing in reverse.

No, I haven't, but that leads me to believe that a) that's a sign of inability to effectively convey messages -or- b) the writer holds their audience in contempt and has to repeat details ad nauseum because they assume the players are slackjawed cretins.

Escrito originalmente por Asterix:

What's gonna be GOTY2019 and why's it Death Stranding ?

Because it looks pretty. You don't need anything else to get "10/10 - IGN" on a platform known for releasing interactive art galleries that occasionally get interrupted with "press X to make something plot-relevant happen".

But who gives a ♥♥♥♥. If it's a pretentious movie, too bad for all the fantards. But if it turns out to be the best thing since nutella, I'll gladly take everything back. Hell, whatever the ♥♥♥♥ DS will be, it's still saving us from more skinnerbox trash, PUBG clones and early access survival with crafting and exploration.

[abcd]

Escrito originalmente por Lexal:

Escrito originalmente por tausoldier:

Have you considered that the editors' and the writers' jobs are to ape that style in order to ready the game for market? Lots of media with subversive ideas wind up doing the same thing in reverse.

No, I haven't, but that leads me to believe that a) that's a sign of inability to effectively convey messages -or- b) the writer holds their audience in contempt and has to repeat details ad nauseum because they assume the players are slackjawed cretins.

I don't know, I always imagine one of Don Draper's coworkers whenever I think of the average marketing exec. I question whether the writers really have any control over what they write. Maybe it's some combination of producers/upper management not getting it and then also demanding that it be dumbed down for the 'general audience.'

Or maybe some superstitious belief in "maintaining the formula," which in a Japanese context would mean over-explaining. Otherwise a lot of people will call in and go "I didn't get it" or something. Any customer complaint at all is viewed as unacceptable for a large company, or at least it used to be, so many plots wind up over-explained as a matter of "proactive customer service."

Anyway, have you played The Writers Will Do Something? https://matthewseiji.itch.io/twwds

Short text adventure based around the writer's room for A Certain AAA Game, I think Mass Effect 3? I thought it was interesting.

[Lexal]

Yes, the over-explaining, constant tautologies, reiterating etc is definitely a Japanese thing, but I have no idea who or what popularised it, anime perhaps? Just a wild guess. But having played and watched through several Japanese-developed games, I can say that despite certainly being a thing, it just seems to be more or less exclusive to core MGS games. I don't recall Revengeance having tonnes of "words words words, in other words..." dialogue, nor Survive, but I'm just rambling now.
I can see where you're coming from with the customer service example, but again, it seems a little condescending towards the more savvy end user. I'm sure the average Joe wouldn't mind this at all, however.
I'm guessing it's just a case of broader appeal, no one getting left behind and whatnot, but the real question we should be asking is where is the line between: a) highlighting some things to the dum dums while leaving the smarter players to figure out the more obscure intrinsics and b) completely explaining everything in a 20 minute long monologue, voiding any sense of pride from deciphering the plot as well as its finer details. All the mystery is gone, the smarter ones will just roll their eyes and write a 10 page essay on everything wrong with narrative-driven games, while dum dums will just go "that's neat, I guess" and think nothing of it, but I'm just rambling now---oh wait...

And wasn't Mass Effect 3 the one that committed the exact same cardinal sin as Desu Ex 3, namely "push button, receive ending"?

[abcd]

The customer call-in thing is actually the origin in Japanese culture, going back to post-war TV broadcasts. Unanswered questions were very unnerving back then, and the belief that one should be able to explain oneself and defend ones ideas at the drop of a hat has been deeply embedded since ancient times.

Having a question the company can't answer is thus poor customer service, and it's completely unacceptable to be a large company with poor customer service. Times are changing, but it's slow.

But having played and watched through several Japanese-developed games, I can say that despite certainly being a thing, it just seems to be more or less exclusive to core MGS games. I don't recall Revengeance having tonnes of "words words words, in other words..." dialogue, nor Survive, but I'm just rambling now.

Ehh, Platinum is very hip and Survive's dialogue was a pastiche of survival-horror and b-movie culture. Neither one was taking itself particularly 'seriously.'

I assure you that 20/30 shows in this anime season's lineup over-explain, as well as all the terrible movies and tv that don't get exported but are still wildly popular there.

I can see where you're coming from with the customer service example, but again, it seems a little condescending towards the more savvy end user. I'm sure the average Joe wouldn't mind this at all, however.
I'm guessing it's just a case of broader appeal, no one getting left behind and whatnot, but the real question we should be asking is where is the line between: a) highlighting some things to the dum dums while leaving the smarter players to figure out the more obscure intrinsics and b) completely explaining everything in a 20 minute long monologue, voiding any sense of pride from deciphering the plot as well as its finer details. All the mystery is gone, the smarter ones will just roll their eyes and write a 10 page essay on everything wrong with narrative-driven games, while dum dums will just go "that's neat, I guess" and think nothing of it, but I'm just rambling now---oh wait...

I mean I literally think the game is a hypercritical veiled commentary on videogame production which goes so far as to directly criticize not only capitalism but also the very nature of identity and the social order itself.

So, from a perspective of governance, the only way a story like that could ever be told is if the general public were intrinsically incapable of comprehending it for one reason or another. Or if it was just "wrong," or "dumb," or "childish," or could somehow be made to be seen as such. The very same principles are at work in any marketing department, whether they're secretly run by a government sleeper cell or they're just some people who want to get a lot of money without ruffling any political feathers.

Trying to write seriously in that environment seems inherently masochistic to me.

And wasn't Mass Effect 3 the one that committed the exact same cardinal sin as Desu Ex 3, namely "push button, receive ending"?

Something like that. The sheer difficulty of trying to rationalize Shepherd having a different alien sexual partner for every single planet like some kind of Space James Bond, as a necessary component of the main plot, is mentioned in the game I linked.

Highly recommend that game btw. It's short, just a choose-your-own-adventure thing. It's interesting because it humanizes the people who are directly responsible for meeting the publisher's demands, which is an angle often left conveniently missing from mainstream journalism.

[Lexal]

I'll give that little thing a try.

I'm surprised this sort of change was actually mandated by EA. Having played Mass Effect 1 and 2, I could have sworn EA just wanted a competent but otherwise bland cover shooter, and would leave it to Bioware to turn it into something with more complexity, as cover shooter is just core gameplay used to push the story forward. Hard to believe they went as far as interfering with the writing just so Shepard can get his leg over some alien hotties with little to no justification, or sense.

But moving back to the main portion; do you think DS will be a quirky satire on all the insanely detailed, over-produced AAA blockbusters? If so, I don't disapprove of this, it's about damn time the industry stopped being so far up its own backside about making a pretty yet vapid spectacle and stringing the players along semi-linear paths from one beautifully rendered set-piece to another, with unnecessarily long commutes between important things, just so the creators can show off how interesting and well-written their characters are, by and large making players feel uninvolved. Oh and don't forget about instant mission failure if you so much as step off the beaten path, because how dare you not pay attention to how much needless effort we put into making the world look realistic!
I should probably just give up on video games until the industry crashes again, or just stick to good indie games and/or older titles.

[Krona🥶]

suck it ireland

[Krona🥶]

In your face