The effectivity of Shotokan Karate.

[Beblokis]

Hi,

Big topic in a few sentences:

I practiced many martial arts and noticed that Shotokan Karate seems to be the most unrealistic out of all of them as the majority of Dojos lack decent Kumite and Bunkai.

Especially since the Karate reform in 1930s.

Has anyone here ever had to use Karate for self defence? Did it work? What was your experience?

I am planning on starting again but my experience with it is rather negative, coming from a more full contact background I always felt that Karate is 80% a waste of time IF you are looking for self defence and being able to win a fight. Unless you train Kyokushin Karate on Okinawa x))

[RADKILLA[420]]

Jazzercise would be more effective in an actual fight.

[Beblokis]

Messaggio originale di RADKILLA420:

Jazzercise would be more effective in an actual fight.

Spot on

[Γαῖα]

Messaggio originale di Guardian:

Messaggio originale di Γαῖα:

There is the art and then there is the practicability of it.
Shotokan is an old art that most who learnt it, never adapted it for the street. While its amongst the most powerful of all karate its far to ridged and leaves itself open to counters other arts have created.
With this said though it takes a very long time to really understand and implement technic from any art as its very far from learning a dance of arms and legs.

This is true.

But my point was that even after learning Shotokan Karate for lets say 10 years, you will get dropped by a Muay-Thai fighter who might only train MT since 1 years or less as MT throws you right in to the happening.

I also would like to point out that Shotokan Karate is not old at all. Shotokan Karate we know is a sport and health Karate, it has been reformed in the 30s and has absolutely nothing to do with the old Karate other than a few roots leading from there.

The only Karate that can compete with other martial arts and combat sports is Kyokushin Karate and Kudo ( if Kudo can even be considered Karate ).

Other than that.... Not sure what the previous dude did not understand about that. You seem to understand it straight away.

Shotokan like aikido are distilled portions of the original arts taught only to a certain class back in the days of feudal japan. Taught, practiced and followed to the letter will end in them being ineffective. If the practitioner does not reassemble the portions or adapt what they know for the street (being mindful of other arts) then coming up short against something like muay thai will be a natural outcome.
Muay thai is a close quarter art split into specialities which unlike japanese arts being taught these days still requires the process of conditioning prior to any technic even being taught.
Blocking, non angle and non flowing technic will fall very short of this art where as a circular parrying one will allow both attack and defence opportunities without giving up ground which muay thai takes full advantage of along with the linear approach when moving forward and thus leaves the individual permanently on the back foot.

[36564176]

gun is better

[Γαῖα]

Messaggio originale di jack of no trades:

gun is better

Only if your 6 foot or further, ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with safety off. No one walks around holding a gun, keeping it in a holster,pants or glove compartment with the safety off.
Anyone can get anyone if they are pre advantaged.

[abcd]

Messaggio originale di Guardian:

Messaggio originale di tausoldier:

im a ninja master, feel my real ultimate power:

*does nothing*

ok bye keyboard warrior.

ROFL.

Calling someone a keyboard warrior who has proven far more knowledge. No Sir, you are the real keyboard warrior.

you resemble a certain infamous fake military guy who rolled through here not too long ago, most notably his appeals to a certain sophomoric realism that seemed massively at odds with absolutely anyone I've ever interacted with or talked to about any of this.

your technical terminology is also lackluster and came off as information one could easily google, and your ideal MMA fighter sounds like it's probably Cabbageface.

your list of martial arts is also very mainstream, popular stuff, and if this is really what 10-15 years of training looks like, socially, then I have to ask what age you started at. also why do you hate Shotokan karate so much, why are you so obsessed with this school vs that school, and why don't you seem to know that many muay thai practitioners develop hardcore arthritis after about 40-50 due to the extreme conditioning necessary and how does that relate to my Bruce Lee story, and why are you promoting alpha krav maga of all things.

I mean seriously, that last post was practically a clown's signoff.

I'm genuinely not interested in going through this for the nth time this year though, so just argue it out with gaia.

Messaggio originale di Γαῖα:

Taught, practiced and followed to the letter will end in them being ineffective. If the practitioner does not resemble the portions or adapt what they know for the street (being mindful of other arts) then coming up short against something like muay thai will be a natural outcome.

[Morphic]

Messaggio originale di Γαῖα:

There is the art and then there is the practicability of it.
Shotokan is an old art that most who learnt it, never adapted it for the street. While its amongst the most powerful of all karate its far to ridged and leaves itself open to counters other arts have created.
With this said though it takes a very long time to really understand and implement technic from any art as its very far from learning a dance of arms and legs.

I agree.

Personally, I've had 3 years of Shorin-Ryu Kempo(not Ed Parker style), 3 years of ITF certified Twae-Kwon-Do, 1 year of Seidokan Karate(taught by Donnie Hayhurst), 2 years of "MMA", 1 year of Muay Thai and ~4 months of good ole Boxing. Also a spattering of this and that from friends that do other styles such as Aikido or Judo.

A lot of the techniques you typically learn are not good as standalone self defense. E.g. a lot of the individual parts of Kata are not at all good in a "real" fight. However, IMO, people who like saying "Kata is garbage and teaches you nothing!" either had bad instructors or don't really understand what Kata is. I thought Kata was "dumb, flashy crap to make you look cool", until my instructor walked me through what each part's intention was.(Arm lock, wrist break, hip movement for a throw...)

The key is learning to integrate and adapt those techniques and movements you've learned into practical applications. IMO, you aren't supposed to blindly carbon copy and replicate techniques; you are supposed to make those techniques into your own. A real fight is often sudden, messy and not at all what happens during a sparring session. Most of the fights I got into; I didn't even use a quarter of the stuff I learned. Though gotta give props to my Kempo; I managed a couple of standing Arm Locks over the years... really nice since the fight ended then and there.

TLDR: This is why I tend to be a naysayer when it comes to "X Style vs Y Style". You aren't supposed to blindly follow everything to the letter, if you do; you are typically going to be ineffective. In regards to Shotokan, I've never personally trained in it but a few of my fellow students came from a ~3 year background to do Seidokan. IMO, they were completely overwhelmed when it came to Full Contact Sparring. Turns out Shotokan was their only experience, with exception to one guy who had ~2 years of "MMA". Not saying Shotokan is bad or anything, just saying from my experience it seems more a "sport style" than a "practical" one.

[matuuuuuuuuuuu]

Messaggio originale di Lord Haw-Haw:

I train jew jitsu (Krav Maga) 🥊

lol probably the most useful message of this thread.

[Xero_Daxter]

And besides.... fighting should always be a last resort. If you wanna learn to kick someone's butt then that's not good.