The effectivity of Shotokan Karate.

[HeroicHeathen]

Hi,

Big topic in a few sentences:

I practiced many martial arts and noticed that Shotokan Karate seems to be the most unrealistic out of all of them as the majority of Dojos lack decent Kumite and Bunkai.

Especially since the Karate reform in 1930s.

Has anyone here ever had to use Karate for self defence? Did it work? What was your experience?

I am planning on starting again but my experience with it is rather negative, coming from a more full contact background I always felt that Karate is 80% a waste of time IF you are looking for self defence and being able to win a fight. Unless you train Kyokushin Karate on Okinawa x))

[HeroicHeathen]

Opprinnelig skrevet av s w e k:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ⓥenom Ⓢnake 🐍:

See that's where my question about full-contact versus light contact comes into play. Light contact is merely for health training and discipline. But you train so long to hold back that when a situation where you need an actually use it you instinctively pull.

Full-contact you learn to follow through. It is a far more painful alternative but it's actually the only form of martial arts that's useful for self-defense.

In experience, my instructors used light contact as a way to practice the technique. During that time it isn't about power, but learning how to chamber kicks, correct form, and practice discipline. It's really only useful as a sort of "set up" for full contact.

But these Karate Dojos I have seen treat Kumite ( light contact sparring in this case ) like Christmas, they do it so rarely and always try to avoid it...Its the same in all Karate Dojos.

I am a grown man and have martial arts background including ITF Taekwondo and Kickboxing with MMA components, why would I waste my time on walking Katas in karate? I can also just workout everday, get ripped and still beat evey Karate black belts a$$ without paying a monthly fee. Not saying this to show off, just saying this to prove a point, tho show that Karate really has no benefits over any other more aggressive system out there....even simple and plain boxing will dominate Karate.

[Ⓥenom Ⓢnake 🐍]

That's why I almost always recommend doing something like judo, aikido, or if you want to expand outside of Japanese martial arts krav maga, or if you really want to be able to defend yourself outside of a ring boxing.

The one martial arts bout I saw that I actually cared about between Japanese martial arts and boxing, the Japanese fighter laid on his back and kicked at the boxer. Because he knew if he was on his feet his opponent, Muhammad Ali, would have done very bad things to him.

https://youtu.be/rNY6qjFKrF8

[HeroicHeathen]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ⓥenom Ⓢnake 🐍:

That's why I almost always recommend doing something like judo, aikido, or if you want to expand outside of Japanese martial arts krav maga, or if you really want to be able to defend yourself outside of a ring boxing.

The one martial arts bout I saw that I actually cared about between Japanese martial arts and boxing, the Japanese fighter laid on his back and kicked at the boxer. Because he knew if he was on his feet his opponent, Muhammad Ali, would have done very bad things to him.

https://youtu.be/rNY6qjFKrF8

Judo is too sport oriented and has too many rules, then rather go for Ju-Jutsu, this is self defene only.

Aikido is unrealistic against anyone who knows how to make a fist and throw a punch (sorry if I hurt some Aikidoka here ).

Please, go and google " Kudo ", the coolest thing I have seen so far. Its like Japanese MMa.
Then go and throw a look at Pankration, its an ancient greek martial art, also similar to MMA.

Pankration and Kudo are extremely brutal hence so effective...HOWEVER, there is no point in coming home with broken rips and twisted ankles every week just to be able to fight off some bad boy on the streets one day. Best is to pump up your muscles, get stronger, get faster, hit the punching bag and just be mentally ready to smash someone up when he wants to do you or your family harm.

My opinion...

[Xite >X< 👁️👁 🇦🇺]

If you can pick someones style, you have an idea of what is coming and how to counter it.

Taking stance tells your opponent about you. Mixing it up, confuses your opponent.

Defending yourself is possible using any fighting techniques, but getting in the first decent blow or pinning them before they drop you is what it is all about.

Best to avoid fighting altogether if you can.

[Hayter]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ⓥenom Ⓢnake 🐍:

That's why I almost always recommend doing something like judo, aikido, or if you want to expand outside of Japanese martial arts krav maga, or if you really want to be able to defend yourself outside of a ring boxing.

The one martial arts bout I saw that I actually cared about between Japanese martial arts and boxing, the Japanese fighter laid on his back and kicked at the boxer. Because he knew if he was on his feet his opponent, Muhammad Ali, would have done very bad things to him.

https://youtu.be/rNY6qjFKrF8

They wanted to fix that fight but Ali said no.

So they made custom rules for Inoki: "He would not be allowed to throw, grapple or tackle Ali and could not land any kicks unless he had one knee on the mat."

Glad ali said no. inoki used to threaten people with the help of the yakuza

[HeroicHeathen]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Xite >X< 👁️👁 🇦🇺:

If you can pick someones style, you have an idea of what is coming and how to counter it.

Taking stance tells your opponent about you. Mixing it up, confuses your opponent.

Defending yourself is possible using any fighting techniques, but getting in the first decent blow or pinning them before they drop you is what it is all about.

Best to avoid fighting altogether if you can.

I doubt some aggressive street brawler will interpret much out of your stance, especially because any low Karate stance would get you slapped anyway.

My concern is more that a Karateka who has to switch to a more flexible and agile stance and start throwing his cover up like a boxer, and who has never experienced hits in the face like a boxer would have, would simply be overwhelmed on the streets and lose to any common drunkard who shows enough aggression in a fight and knows how to throw a basic jab.

There might be one or the other Karate style that does give you some advantage over a non trained fighter, but these styles are rarely trained in the western world...then its better to go for boxing straight away...besides that..try throwing decent kicks when wearing a jeans and not being warmed up....every system that involves kicks is almost useless except for the low kicks.

[s w e k]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Atlantean:

Opprinnelig skrevet av s w e k:

In experience, my instructors used light contact as a way to practice the technique. During that time it isn't about power, but learning how to chamber kicks, correct form, and practice discipline. It's really only useful as a sort of "set up" for full contact.

But these Karate Dojos I have seen treat Kumite ( light contact sparring in this case ) like Christmas, they do it so rarely and always try to avoid it...Its the same in all Karate Dojos.

I am a grown man and have martial arts background including ITF Taekwondo and Kickboxing with MMA components, why would I waste my time on walking Katas in karate? I can also just workout everday, get ripped and still beat evey Karate black belts a$$ without paying a monthly fee. Not saying this to show off, just saying this to prove a point, tho show that Karate really has no benefits over any other more aggressive system out there....even simple and plain boxing will dominate Karate.

I guess that depends on what you wanna do. Me? I like, and want to, learn self-defense. I also like learning forms, something that isn't very useful in self-defense, but is fun for me to do.

I'm lucky enough to have an instructor that's not only teaching us TKD techniques, but boxing techniques as well. It all comes down to what you're learning alongside your martial art.

[SMIFFY]

Surely if someone used Karate in a street fight they'd be laughed to death by every bystander. They'll think your autistic or something.

[AdahnGorion]

Opprinnelig skrevet av SMIFFY:

Surely if someone used Karate in a street fight they'd be laughed to death by every bystander. They'll think your autistic or something.

Are you boxing people with autism here? In that case I don't think you understand what Autism is.

[Ⓥenom Ⓢnake 🐍]

Boxing with autism

Are you referring to the fact that boxers are not martial artists and their skill is actually incredible in close-quarters combat.

In the corner watch Ali do something that's almost impossible to imagine.

https://youtu.be/nxZ-J7xit5Y

There is a reason why other martial artist highly respected him.

[pants]

Opprinnelig skrevet av SMIFFY:

Surely if someone used Karate in a street fight they'd be laughed to death by every bystander. They'll think your autistic or something.

if you can say this kind of thing then I'm not too sure you've watched a lot of full contact karate, or partaken in it. you don't just stand there carefully performing kata, you hit a dude (or better yet, run away, because fighting is a last resort and there are better choices available than ones that carry risk of death or serious injury)

Andy Hug (RIP) was a legendary karateka and kickboxer and not many people would have laughed at him or his enormous legs or his ability to teleport his foot directly above someone's head and brain them

edit: but if by karate you mean "limply thumping a guy in the least effective way Shotokan style" then yes

[Ⓥenom Ⓢnake 🐍]

I'm so not too terribly long I actually used to spar with MMA fighters. not anything too serious I mean I just used to go to the gym and a friend there knew that I took taekwondo on was younger and picked up boxing at my wife suggesting so I had some outlet.

It was sadly mostly because I am a bit taller than most of them, I stay in a decent shape, man that don't mind getting punched in the face.


but I did stop enjoying getting punched in the face and or flipped on my ass. so I think it's about 2 years now that I stopped agreeing to do things with that person.

I really can't get punched in the nose again. it's so broken it tilts to the left and when I sleep on it I have to crack it back over.

I was never really good at boxing, or any of the rest. I actually dropped my gym membership because of that. Now I just don't worry about it.

[SMIFFY]

Opprinnelig skrevet av omg:

edit: but if by karate you mean "limply thumping a guy in the least effective way Shotokan style" then yes

That's what this thread is about. Look, the only people who start fights in the street are usually drunk, so preparing to go all Karate Kid against them is going to make people either laugh or cringe.

[pants]

Opprinnelig skrevet av SMIFFY:

Opprinnelig skrevet av omg:

edit: but if by karate you mean "limply thumping a guy in the least effective way Shotokan style" then yes

That's what this thread is about. Look, the only people who start fights in the street are usually drunk, so preparing to go all Karate Kid against them is going to make people either laugh or cringe.

*fumes impotently, but performs his kata rigorously in his rage, over and over and over and over again...*

[Ⓥenom Ⓢnake 🐍]

Reason I talk about fighting is because I used to do it almost continuously against the variety of people

Until I got my right eye knocked properly out of its socket.

Now I pretty much have zero depth perception. it's why I have complained about years about the VR because I can't use it because my eyes don't line up.

I can show you pictures I guess if you'd like to see. My right eye does pretty much everything it wants to do, and why I am wearing eyepatch.