Did console market RUINED rpg games?

[Cryomancer]

In fact you can't have the same "complexity" in consoles as you have on pc. Consoles are far limited in controls and in hardware. Historically all "true" rpg's that received a console port, received a "dumbed down" version. Like for example the Ultima VI for snes. The snes version :

1 - Several pictures and texts from the intro were removed.
2 - There is no character creation, the player only enters a name. There is also no option for a female Avatar.
3 - The conversations use a tree-system, meaning that the player actually has to learn about a topic, before they can ask the person about it.
4 - There are no character portraits.
5 - Also all NPC dialogue had to be streamlined and shortened in order to fit the game into the module. This was used for censorship as well (see below).
6 - Since the game is fullscreen, thus logically no mouse support, the control scheme is much more complicated with several sub-menus.
7 - The world is less detailed. Small things like chairs and the ability to sit are gone. There is also less interactivity, such as looking at paintings is now absent.
8 - The following spells are missing: Steal, Trap, Summon Daemon, Turn to Slime, Eclipse
9 - Buildings and the overworld are all separate maps.
10 -The maximum party size is reduced to six instead of eight.

source : http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/SNES-Port_of_Ultima_VI

Look to all franchises that started focused on PC market and then become console focused, like Fallout.

Fallout 1 & 2 = RPG
Fallout 3 and new vegas = FPS & RPG mix.
Fallout 4 = COD(children online daycare)

And according to fallout developers "Consoles killed Fallout: New Vegas’ most ambitious ideas, dev says" ( source : http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/consoles-killed-fallout-new-vegas-most-ambitious-ideas-dev-says/ )

I can't imagine a game like Neverwinter nights running on a console. Is too complex. Same for Might and Magic VII, the first rpg that 've played in my life(review bellow).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1iAP5xH-CY

Unfortunate games are now being made with the console market in mind, so nothing should be "complex". Even divinity original sin 2 is being criticized because is too "complex" and is probably the unique "modern" rpg that i will purchase.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/435150/Divinity_Original_Sin_2/

[Jerry]

Uhm... did computers ruin RPG games? I am pretty sure, computer games do not offer the complexity, a good GM can bring up, nor are they flexible enough to match a group of dedicated players.

Just compare the D&D or TDA games to their source material

[Cryomancer]

Originally posted by Jerry:

Uhm... did computers ruin RPG games? I am pretty sure, computer games do not offer the complexity, a good GM can bring up, nor are they flexible enough to match a group of dedicated players.

Just compare the D&D or TDA games to their source material

Well, cRPG's din't forced PnP RPG to abandon GM, but console RPG's are forcing the game industry to "dumb down" RPG elements. Also, there are custom modules with GM for nwn1.

[King Of Nothing]

I'd say that First Person Shooters got dumbed down even more than RPGs for the same reason.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by C4MP3R:

Originally posted by Jerry:

Uhm... did computers ruin RPG games? I am pretty sure, computer games do not offer the complexity, a good GM can bring up, nor are they flexible enough to match a group of dedicated players.

Just compare the D&D or TDA games to their source material

Well, cRPG's din't forced PnP RPG to abandon GM, but console RPG's are forcing the game industry to "dumb down" RPG elements. Also, there are custom modules with GM for nwn1.

Assuming that your basic contention is true, is there really no one making these more complex WRPG-type games anymore? What about things like Torment: Tides of Numenera and Pillars of Eternity?

[Dominic]

Originally posted by Raven the undying:

I'd say that First Person Shooters got dumbed down even more than RPGs for the same reason.

I do not think that is a game system only thing. Main issue is I think people just wanted to make games easier.

Someone once told me it cost more money and is more harder to make a hard to fight AI then it is to make microtransactions that will give more money then the game ever would of.

[Cryomancer]

Originally posted by Quint, Queen of the Giant Rabbit:

Originally posted by C4MP3R:

Well, cRPG's din't forced PnP RPG to abandon GM, but console RPG's are forcing the game industry to "dumb down" RPG elements. Also, there are custom modules with GM for nwn1.

Assuming that your basic contention is true, is there really no one making these more complex WRPG-type games anymore? What about things like Torment: Tides of Numenera and Pillars of Eternity?

Are good games BUT still not good as neverwinter nights for example. The magical system of nwn is very complex. Cleric have many different domains, sorcerers have a insane variety of spells, including time stop. I an not saying that nwn is perfect because for example arcane casters can't imbue eletric/cold spells(can do this in PnP), i will probably purchase PoE and DOS2

Originally posted by Dominic:

Originally posted by Raven the undying:

I'd say that First Person Shooters got dumbed down even more than RPGs for the same reason.

I do not think that is a game system only thing. Main issue is I think people just wanted to make games easier.

Someone once told me it cost more money and is more harder to make a hard to fight AI then it is to make microtransactions that will give more money then the game ever would of.

Not simple "easier", modern fps tends to have weapons without recoil, paintball maps, a lot of random stuff...

[僕の名前 (仮)]

Dont know about RPGs, but games like Thief and Bioshock yeah. I'm sure Alien would be better game if it was PC exclusive (though its of course already good, just the controls are compromised by consoles)

[Azza ☠]

Created for the PC (not a port):

http://store.steampowered.com/app/292030/The_Witcher_3_Wild_Hunt/

[Dïngus]

"ruined" is past tense...

[Cryomancer]

Originally posted by AtTheGates:

I like both JRPGs and Weatern RPGs. Console or PC.

I don't like jrpg. Too boring...

Originally posted by Dingus:

"ruined" is past tense...

You are right. Should be "ruining". English isn't my nativelanguage.

[Radene]

Originally posted by Azza ☠:

Created for the PC (not a port):

http://store.steampowered.com/app/292030/The_Witcher_3_Wild_Hunt/

In which you play as a teenage edgelord in a thirty-something body that can have all the sex it wants without consequences.

[secuda]

No what you are saying accesabillity is destroying CRPGs games, because they want more people to play them rather then have a miniority that may not make enough money to go around. But then again Originall sin 2 was heavilly praised by the old guard from my understanding?

[Cryomancer]

Originally posted by secuda:

No what you are saying accesabillity is destroying CRPGs games, because they want more people to play them rather then have a miniority that may not make enough money to go around. But then again Originall sin 2 was heavilly praised by the old guard from my understanding?

Not all critique
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Ndwt9LhzM

[※Tapu Lele※]

wat

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by AtTheGates:

I like both JRPGs and Weatern RPGs. Console or PC.

FWIW OP seems to be talking about WRPGs, not JRPGs, which are sort of irrelevant in this context (regardless of my personal taste for them).

Originally posted by C4MP3R:

Originally posted by Quint, Queen of the Giant Rabbit:

Assuming that your basic contention is true, is there really no one making these more complex WRPG-type games anymore? What about things like Torment: Tides of Numenera and Pillars of Eternity?

Are good games BUT still not good as neverwinter nights for example. The magical system of nwn is very complex. Cleric have many different domains, sorcerers have a insane variety of spells, including time stop. I an not saying that nwn is perfect because for example arcane casters can't imbue eletric/cold spells(can do this in PnP), i will probably purchase PoE and DOS2

Hey, if you know NWN, do you much about NWN2?

I've played tabletop D&D/Pathfinder before, albeit without that much emphasis on character building (which I know is a huge draw to fans of WRPGs, a.k.a. CRPGs).

I've wanted to try a WRPG for a while, so I did buy NWN2 (on GOG, not Steam) specifically because I had experience with 3.5e and knowing that NWN2 uses 3.5e as its basis, but I still stopped in the middle of the very first scenario because I wasn't sure how to be properly cautious enough to not build my character too badly to deal with the game so I still haven't leveled up yet. (Also the game has a bit of graphical glitching, but hopefully it's been fixed since the last time I tried it.)