What is wrong with paid loot boxes, which some consider to be gambling, in games?

[ChaffyExpert]

The way i see it, people have a choice, and if they make the wrong one, rather than blame themselves, they blame the game, or the company etc. As for kids, their parents should be the ones restricting what games they play or don't play, not the government.

So now, i am going to have to worry about the government getting involved in every single game. Thanks alot for that.

[Γαῖα]

Do you or do you not pay money for a loot box. Does the loot box guarantee the same product no matter who purchases it like a DLC for instance ?

If the box can be traded or sold it means it has monetary value end to end that could be more or less its original value. Heres the thing though,

Kids can buy stickers for sticker books which are also random and these days. can be traded or sold. This has minus selling them for cash been going on since i was a kid which is many many decades ago. The sticking point is then if they are being able to be sold unopened or the product after opening the box.

If game companies make it iilegal to trade or sell the box and or it content, then i dont see the harm in them.

[Γαῖα]

引用自 The nameless Commander：

引用自 Traror：

That isn't why they are wrong... you just listed games that don't do that.

It's not OK to lock advantages behind paywalls in COMPETITIVE games. Also, it's not OK to force us to pay for the initial game and then squeeze out MORE money for the ending. If we buy a ticket for a movie, we buy it to see the whole thing, not just a portion.

I totally hear you but its only immoral, unethical, sadly not illegal. The same problem we have with tax avoidance and tax evasion.

[shoopy]

Even if it becomes illegal they'll just do something else, such as premium tiers.

[The nameless Gamer]

引用自 Γαῖα：

I totally hear you but its only immoral, unethical, sadly not illegal. The same problem we have with tax avoidance and tax evasion.

We still have the power to fight it by not supporting such practices. Most of us however choose to give up, since it's easier to just open the wallet.

[Ëvïlnïck8 ゴゴゴ]

引用自 Traror：

引用自 ëvïlnïck8：

Because companies are using this as another way of cashing in money.
They desing their games to make the loot boxes appealing.
Look at battlefron 2, the guy who spends more money has more change of getting items that are objectifly better then the others.
Shadow of war basicly says ''you either grind for weeks or give me that extra $$$ to progress the story-line''

Withouth loot boxes i would not need to endlesly grind to progress the story or play againts other players who have +10% more damage cause they spend more $$$ on it.

I find it disgusting.

They may be disgusting, but people still need to take responsibility for their own actions.

So its ok that games are being desinged to have long and boring missions that only exist so you buy loot boxes.
When games are being sliced into pieces only so you give them more $$$.
There is also barley any reason for it to other then greed.
Shadow of war and Battlefornt 2 are gaurenteed succeses, so the only reason for the loot crates is to test the waters for an storm of loot crates in 60$ games.

[Blargo]

For me it depends on what's in the lootboxes and whether or not the game is free.

Free games:

Cosmetics - Absolutely no problem.
Items that give players advantages in PvE - Absolutely no problem.
Items that give players advantages in PvP - Will turn me off, but I may still play if it's not too bad.
Items that are required to progress - Haha, no. Not playing that game.


Paid games:

Cosmetics - Absolutely no problem.
Items that give players advantages in PvE - Kind of iffy, but I'll let it slide if you don't NEED them.
Items that give players advantages in PvP - Heck off. Zero tolerance.
Items that are required to progress - I don't know of any paid games that do this, but developers/publishers would automatically be in my "avoid" list if they do.

[ChaffyExpert]

引用自 The nameless Commander：

引用自 Traror：

That isn't why they are wrong... you just listed games that don't do that.

It's not OK to lock advantages behind paywalls in COMPETITIVE games. Also, it's not OK to force us to pay for the initial game and then squeeze out MORE money for the ending. If we buy a ticket for a movie, we buy it to see the whole thing, not just a portion.

But why? Because it is your opinion?

[ChaffyExpert]

引用自 Dxpress：

For me it depends on what's in the lootboxes and whether or not the game is free.

Free games:

Cosmetics - Absolutely no problem.
Items that give players advantages in PvE - Absolutely no problem.
Items that give players advantages in PvP - Will turn me off, but I may still play if it's not too bad.
Items that are required to progress - Haha, no. Not playing that game.


Paid games:

Cosmetics - Absolutely no problem.
Items that give players advantages in PvE - Kind of iffy, but I'll let it slide if you don't NEED them.
Items that give players advantages in PvP - Heck off. Zero tolerance.
Items that are required to progress - I don't know of any paid games that do this, but developers/publishers would automatically be in my "avoid" list if they do.

This seems more reasonable, and not acting like this is universally true.

[Ëvïlnïck8 ゴゴゴ]

引用自 Dxpress：

For me it depends on what's in the lootboxes and whether or not the game is free.

Free games:

Cosmetics - Absolutely no problem.
Items that give players advantages in PvE - Absolutely no problem.
Items that give players advantages in PvP - Will turn me off, but I may still play if it's not too bad.
Items that are required to progress - Haha, no. Not playing that game.


Paid games:

Cosmetics - Absolutely no problem.
Items that give players advantages in PvE - Kind of iffy, but I'll let it slide if you don't NEED them.
Items that give players advantages in PvP - Heck off. Zero tolerance.
Items that are required to progress - I don't know of any paid games that do this, but developers/publishers would automatically be in my "avoid" list if they do.

Its noted that Shadow of War has some realy long grindy sessions near the end of the campaing that you can speed buying loot boxes.
You technecly dont need them, but unless you take that wallet you are in for some long grindy session.

[Γαῖα]

引用自 The nameless Commander：

引用自 Γαῖα：

I totally hear you but its only immoral, unethical, sadly not illegal. The same problem we have with tax avoidance and tax evasion.

We still have the power to fight it by not supporting such practices. Most of us however choose to give up, since it's easier to just open the wallet.

Its not giving up, its either to dumb to see there being taken for ride or rather than work for something, will cheat to get there earlier.

Like many other groups, we have in the gaming ranks, weak, lazy, vein and stupid members who cannot see we gamers have the power to control the market and not the other way around. One of the biggest problems however is these businesses preying on minors in ever inventive ways, minors who have no concept of money, value, business or markets.

[TwinEdgedBastard]

They influence the overall design of a game. While I'm mostly fine with loot boxes when they're just cosmetics, It starts to become a problem when the boxes contain significant game changing items. Obviously people won't buy them if there was no incentive to, so devs (or more likely publishers) will tamper with the game to make loot boxes more enticing, easy example is Shadow of Wars ending being locked behind a grind wall.

While loot boxes are still optional, you have to consider if it's still fair to punish players who don't want to engage in loot boxes. Why should we be forced to repeat the same boring process over and over again just to finish a game? I personally think it's very unfair, Just imagine if you went to see a movie and right before the end the movie, it stops and says "you can only see the ending if you either pay $10 or if you watch 10 hours of the protagonist sleeping with no distractions".

[ChaffyExpert]

引用自 Γαῖα：

引用自 The nameless Commander：

We still have the power to fight it by not supporting such practices. Most of us however choose to give up, since it's easier to just open the wallet.

Its not giving up, its either to dumb to see there being taken for ride or rather than work for something, will cheat to get there earlier.

Like many other groups, we have in the gaming ranks, weak, lazy, vein and stupid members who cannot see we gamers have the power to control the market and not the other way around. One of the biggest problems however is these businesses preying on minors in ever inventive ways, minors who have no concept of money, value, business or markets.

IF minors are being sucked into these practices, i don't just blame the businesses, i blame the parents for not watching their kid.

[The nameless Gamer]

引用自 Traror：

But why? Because it is your opinion?

Because in sports competitions the participants win through dilligent training and devotion, not by paying. I am not alone in wanting video games to reward effort and dedication rather than a thick wallet.

[Walach]

The closest thing I can think of for this thing is this:
"Pachinko and pachi-slot. Pachinko is a Japanese version of pinball and pachi-slot is a slot machine. Generally, both pachinko machines and pachi-slot machines are found in pachinko parlours throughout Japan. Balls or tokens can be won in pachinko or pachi-slot and be exchanged for goods that are available in the parlour's gift shop. Certain goods obtained from the parlour's gift shop can then be sold for cash at an exchange shop located near the pachinko parlour at a specified exchange rate. Although pachinko and pachi-slot are generally perceived as gambling by the general public, when operated in a specific manner, they are not legally prohibited under the Penal Code, as the betting in pachinko and pachi-slot is construed to be made for entertainment purposes (Article 185, Penal Code). Pachinko and pachi-slot are also regulated by the Act on Control and Improvement of Amusement Business, etc. (Act No. 122 of 1948) (see Question 3)."

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/9-636-6994?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&bhcp=1

I believe it's more about "what it can be later" than "what it is now" but as I haven't read up about this thing I cannot really say.

[ChaffyExpert]

引用自 The nameless Commander：

引用自 Traror：

But why? Because it is your opinion?

Because in sports competitions the participants win through dilligent training and devotion, not by paying. I am not alone in wanting video games to reward effort and dedication rather than a thick wallet.

Gaming is not a sport, unless you are a liberal.