The Rosenhan Experiment.
We have to our disposition the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" series of books that will soon categorize everyone with a mental illness, but yet, no doctors, psychiatrists, et cetera in medical science can really, with any doubt, diagnose conditions without referring to the patient's experience. Thus, if a pseudopatient fake a condition, there is nothing to the analysts, doctors, or psychiatrists that can really prove or disprove "distinguish" the diagnosis of sanity, or insanity of the patient or to the pseudopatient (...).

What do you think about this experiment?

......................"On being sane in insane places."

最後修改者:Nkz waH.Axs kxi tr ii.U tx xn.tN; 2017 年 5 月 2 日 下午 6:13
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目前顯示第 61-75 則留言,共 79
Kris 2017 年 5 月 4 日 上午 9:21 
Rather than quote you, as I'm on mobile and that post would be a little more difficult to quote.. C4, generally I respect you and your opinion. On almost every post I see, I find myself impressed by some of your experiences. However, your opinion here has no backup or evidence in the slightest. You're claiming other people are wrong, and yet I can link to countless studies, experiments, academics, and other professional articles. You essentially said you didn't give a ♥♥♥♥ that you were wrong about any of the things I pointed out. That just shows you lost this, because it shows you don't care about facts. You didn't even research anything. I always research the other side, which I think is something everyone should do. I never personally attacked you, so you cannot call ad hominem. Do you even know what that means? All I'm saying is that your opinions are lacking any evidence, and I suggest you go further into this with a little more research and an open mind. There are more cases today because we find out more about illnesses today, which allow us to properly diagnose more people. Again, is it a perfect field? No. There's corruption. There's ignorance. Yet it still has very valid, licensed doctors who do truly care for clients. You're mistaken. My posts are not simply from experience. I added my experience along with the evidence and facts because someone earlier suggested anecdotal evidence as well (though I am usually against this anyway). Again, be rational here. A truly wise person can admit when they don't know everything.
最後修改者:Kris; 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 12:52
Alpha 2017 年 5 月 4 日 上午 10:27 
Then there's also the genetic and neurological parts of these disorders. One day diagnosis may be as simple as a little electronic device taking a pin prick of blood from your finger, or a quick scan of your brain.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/comorbidity-psychiatry/shared-risk-factors-multiple-psychiatric-disorders
http://healthland.time.com/2013/06/28/brain-scans-could-become-ekgs-for-mental-disorders/
最後修改者:Alpha; 2017 年 5 月 4 日 上午 10:34
C4Warr10r 2017 年 5 月 4 日 上午 10:43 
引用自 Ms. Jack Bauer
. A truly wise person can admit when they don't know everything.

We at least have common ground there. All I'm asking of you is the same. You don't know everything, I don't think you're seeing the larger picture. I know it has valid and licensed doctors, I know some of them are good, but that's no excuse to not test psychologists. It no reason to say that because their methods are better now, they need to be trusted. That's just foolishness, and you need no research for that.
Kris 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 12:49 
引用自 C4Warr10r
We at least have common ground there. All I'm asking of you is the same. You don't know everything, I don't think you're seeing the larger picture. I know it has valid and licensed doctors, I know some of them are good, but that's no excuse to not test psychologists. It no reason to say that because their methods are better now, they need to be trusted. That's just foolishness, and you need no research for that.

And I never claimed otherwise. We can always evaluate and question.
Zubenelgenubi 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 1:28 
All of the craziest people i've known went on to either be criminal psychopaths or psychologists/psychiatrists. I ♥♥♥♥ you not.

One guy while attending university broke into his ex-girlfriends apartment and destroyed everything when he was drinking one night. And he's now deciding who is sane or not. Another girl used to do every drug known to man and her boyfriend had to call the police numerous times because she would flip out. When the police arrived she would try to bite them. She's also deciding who is sane or not these days.

You might say these people are the best people to have in these positions because they understand it best, but the problem is they project.

I just searched him and the first guy is actually a Professor and Director in a department of Psychology and Neuroscience now. So i guess he's doing more teaching than anything. Honestly he wasn't a bad guy, and that was an isolated incident, so i kind of feel a little bad for mentioning him. That girl tho...
最後修改者:Zubenelgenubi; 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 1:58
Dendrobates Tinctorius 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 1:41 
引用自 C4Warr10r
So if someone goes to two crystal accupuncture with detox shakes appointments for their cancer, that means it works?

You know damn well it doesn't, hence your ability to mock it. Sure, some peope will select the wrong treatment for things over and over again, but that's okay, because they remove themselves as a problem. Everyone else learns.

All I'm saying is that the same should hold true for practitioners.
That practitioners should select the wrong treatment over and over?
C4Warr10r 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 4:14 
引用自 Fusion
You do realize this is what the entire point of publication and peer review is right.
Do you even know the process that goes into making and publishing a research manuscript?

I know it well. I also know it's often wrong. It's not the holy grail of scientific truth, especially in psychology, which isn't much of a science.

That practitioners should select the wrong treatment over and over?
Not that they should, but they do, and people don't normally go to those practitioners given a choice.


引用自 Fusion
They're dealing with human bodies.

So what? Lots of professions are entrusted with bodies, minds, lives. The absolute worst, most regressive ones are always those that do not exist in a free market.

Nothing regulates people better than a free market. They can't just be allowed to regulate themselves, as they create a system exclusive to competition that secures their own jobs first. Nor can you trust a government made of people who know nothing of the profession to regulate anything. The government always gets co-opted, and then you get laws made to exclude competition. Then, people like you complain about how the whole system needs to be changed and apparently run by these saintly people you think exist.

It never ends well for them. Right now, we're sitting in the middle of what appears to be a mental health epidemic, while you and Ms. Bauer argue that nothing is wrong and that Rosenhan wasn't a good experiment. Is my perspective wrong? Or is yours?
Kris 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 5:10 
引用自 C4Warr10r
It never ends well for them. Right now, we're sitting in the middle of what appears to be a mental health epidemic, while you and Ms. Bauer argue that nothing is wrong and that Rosenhan wasn't a good experiment. Is my perspective wrong? Or is yours?

You're making that up now. Neither of us said "nothing is wrong", nor did any of us say it wasn't a good experiment. In fact, if you actually looked back and read, both Fusion and I were discussing problems in the system right now. Which means there are flaws, and we see that. Rosenhan was a very much needed experiment, for obvious reasons. You're just changing your argument and creating things as you're going along at this point.
C4Warr10r 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 5:19 
引用自 Ms. Jack Bauer

You're making that up now. Neither of us said "nothing is wrong", nor did any of us say it wasn't a good experiment. In fact, if you actually looked back and read, both Fusion and I were discussing problems in the system right now. Which means there are flaws, and we see that. Rosenhan was a very much needed experiment, for obvious reasons. You're just changing your argument and creating things as you're going along at this point.

Actually, I kind of am. I forgot what you two said. This happens from time to time when I have to go do other things.
Kris 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 5:23 
引用自 C4Warr10r
Actually, I kind of am. I forgot what you two said. This happens from time to time when I have to go do other things.

Lol I mean, at least you admitted it. Some people aren't so mature.
Alpha 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 5:33 
Consider this, a cure for all disorders, etc. Then the whole industry has no purpose. All of those professionals and drug industries, etc. become obsolete. Same with crime, if there was none then the whole law, judicial and prison systems becomes obsolete. I am all for that perfect future, but I wonder if the people who work in those areas are.
最後修改者:Alpha; 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 5:34
引用自 Ms. Jack Bauer

Lol I mean, at least you admitted it. Some people aren't so mature.

Why do you feel the need to put it more in his face, I mean, he doesn't need to give you reason even if there was which i didn't feel at all that he was. He's basically the first in this thread agreeing with the fact that Rosenhan was an important experiment which isn't that out dated and shouldn't be as long as we will remember its importance in the medical science spheres. And nor didn't I feel that the others was wrong, you were all speaking the same with the confusion of other people words and instead of remembering the mistake or confusion of everyones and closing this great discusion on that point then why not continuing it by expressing again the major flaws of what we can find in this medical science industry. Like the fact that once you're diagnosticed schizophrenic even if you are not then there is no way possible for that person to be discharge of that pathology as expressed in the Rosenhan experiment essay or any other flaws that the medical science bears, as there is for sure...!
Dirty Dan 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 5:58 
引用自 Paradox
Consider this, a cure for all disorders, etc. Then the whole industry has no purpose. All of those professionals and drug industries, etc. become obsolete. Same with crime, if there was none then the whole law, judicial and prison systems becomes obsolete. I am all for that perfect future, but I wonder if the people who work in those areas are.
I don't see the relevancy of this. Are you saying that a big enough chunk of the field of Psychology is lying just for the money? It's kind of like saying "Water is wet", you're not wrong but you also didn't say something that seems relevant, unless you are stating the opinion of the question asked above.
Kris 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 6:01 
Why do you feel the need to put it more in his face, I mean, he doesn't need to give you reason even if there was which i didn't feel at all that he was. He's basically the first in this thread agreeing with the fact that Rosenhan was an important experiment which isn't that out dated and shouldn't be as long as we will remember its importance in the medical science spheres. And nor didn't I feel that the others was wrong, you were all speaking the same with the confusion of other people words and instead of remembering the mistake or confusion of everyones and closing this great discusion on that point then why not continuing it by expressing again the major flaws of what we can find in this medical science industry. Like the fact that once you're diagnosticed schizophrenic even if you are not then there is no way possible for that person to be discharge of that pathology as expressed in the Rosenhan experiment essay or any other flaws that the medical science bears, as there is for sure...!

I'm genuinely calling him mature. I feel like every single person here realizes that it was an important experiment, but that doesn't mean it's how modern practice works (therefore, outdated in that sense). As I've said, probably for the fourth time now, we can ALWAYS look back and remember the importance of older studies. That doesn't mean it's relevant to the way things work today. Did you even read the comments on your own thread? No one was truly fighting. This was a serious discussion. There were no personal attacks. So why are you acting as if someone here was definitely offended?
引用自 Dirty Dan
引用自 Paradox
Consider this, a cure for all disorders, etc. Then the whole industry has no purpose. All of those professionals and drug industries, etc. become obsolete. Same with crime, if there was none then the whole law, judicial and prison systems becomes obsolete. I am all for that perfect future, but I wonder if the people who work in those areas are.
I don't see the relevancy of this. Are you saying that a big enough chunk of the field of Psychology is lying just for the money? It's kind of like saying "Water is wet", you're not wrong but you also didn't say something that seems relevant, unless you are stating the opinion of the question asked above.

It's more of a kind of F*** Darwin...!
最後修改者:Nkz waH.Axs kxi tr ii.U tx xn.tN; 2017 年 5 月 4 日 下午 9:06
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