Mouse vs Gamepad on gameplay smoothness?

[Guizin]

Okay, now, this is a bit of a polemic subject. Flaming is not my purpose, and I would like you guys to restrain your opnions on wherever gaming mode you think works the best. Of course I can't make you guys not to express your views, but it is just a suggestion. Well, okay, let's get to the point:
I have noticed that a couple of games for X360/PS3 are locked on 30fps, and yet it looks very smooth. Capping PC games on 30fps won't look nearly as smooth as it looks on consoles. I've looked it up on Google, and beside the fact that discussions of this kind are somewhat rare, I did find some possible answers:
*Severe framedrop/Unstable framerate
*Distance between you and the display
*Differences between the TV which the console is plugged and the PC screen
**Gamepad**
It isn't for unstable framerate, since I can maintain 30fps on pretty much every game, and the fps are CAPPED at 30.
Distance might be related, but surely not the major factor, since getting as far as I could from the PC did little to nothing.
And we have the gamepad thing. For real, doens't sound like a valid option. I just can't imagine how a gamepad could make the game smoother. But, by now, I have no means to verify this claim, so I can't take any kind of conclusions. So I would like to ask if anyone here could try limiting the framerate of some games and play it with a gamepad in order to verify if there is a perceptable difference from smoothness with and without the gamepad. Thanks.

*******************THIS THREAD IS NOT ON WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT GAMEPAD AND MOUSES*****************

****************THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION ABOUT MOUSES VS GAMEPAD************
****************THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION ABOUT MOUSES VS GAMEPAD************
****************THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION ABOUT MOUSES VS GAMEPAD************
****************THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION ABOUT MOUSES VS GAMEPAD************

[Michael Murphy]

You guys do realize modern console games aren't FPS locked right? You'll notice a lot of games on 360 and PS3, they run at higher framerates on PS3. I recall seeing some games run at 60ish FPS on PS3, but 30ish on 360. Then you have games like Fallout and Skyrim, GTA, huge amount of console games run in the teens. In fact, there are plenty of console games that run in the teens FPS. I havent seen a FPS locked console since around PS2 era. There is a lot more under the hood that simple framerates. Some game engines are perfectly smooth at 30FPS, others need to be running 60FPS to be smoother. There are a lot of variables under the hood that would take too long for me to explain to you, such as tickrate and framerate. Low framerate doesnt mean low tickrate. As for mouse versus gamepad. Obviously the mouse is superior, you cannot debate that an ancient analog stick is more precise than a mouse. Try playing a FPS game with a controller, analog doesnt work, at all. What FPS games on console use is an aimbot hack, aka autoaim, as long as you point your analog stick in the general area of your target, it will autoaim and shoot the target for you, they do this because its near impossible to accurately aim with an analog stick. Again, look up Osu!, Ive got some videos of it on my profile, try doing that with a mouse, not happening.

As for guy above, mouse dpi != controller analog dpi. dpi doesnt measure accurateness. A 400dpi, even 200dpi mouse with 16ms latency lag is more accurate than an analog stick.

[Guizin]

Messaggio originale di Sutikku no Shogun:

You guys do realize modern console games aren't FPS locked right? You'll notice a lot of games on 360 and PS3, they run at higher framerates on PS3. I recall seeing some games run at 60ish FPS on PS3, but 30ish on 360. Then you have games like Fallout and Skyrim, GTA, huge amount of console games run in the teens. In fact, there are plenty of console games that run in the teens FPS. I havent seen a FPS locked console since around PS2 era. There is a lot more under the hood that simple framerates. Some game engines are perfectly smooth at 30FPS, others need to be running 60FPS to be smoother. There are a lot of variables under the hood that would take too long for me to explain to you, such as tickrate and framerate. Low framerate doesnt mean low tickrate. As for mouse versus gamepad. Obviously the mouse is superior, you cannot debate that an ancient analog stick is more precise than a mouse. Try playing a FPS game with a controller, analog doesnt work, at all. What FPS games on console use is an aimbot hack, aka autoaim, as long as you point your analog stick in the general area of your target, it will autoaim and shoot the target for you, they do this because its near impossible to accurately aim with an analog stick. Again, look up Osu!, Ive got some videos of it on my profile, try doing that with a mouse, not happening.

As for guy above, mouse dpi != controller analog dpi. dpi doesnt measure accurateness. A 400dpi, even 200dpi mouse with 16ms latency lag is more accurate than an analog stick.

Go to Youtube, type on the search bar this: "frame-rate analysis" and check the videos from Digital Foundry. Most of them plays at max 30fps. BF3 is capped at 30fps on PS3. BF3 running at 30fps on PS3 feels very smooth. But on PC, the same game capped at the same frame rate feels jittery. Simple as that. "Why does that happens" is the main question on this thread. And by the way:
****************THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION ABOUT MOUSES VS GAMEPAD************

[scotch_egg]

Why tickrate? Were not just talking online.

[Vynn Tage]

ok guys again, the TV refresh rate can play a lrage impact on the overall smoothness, look it up yourselves to see what i mean. try lowering your monitors refresh rat ethen changing it back to see the difference.
Also i have a 6400dpi mouse that i can set 4 preset speeds for. it does not make the game any smoother.

[Rubik748]

Messaggio originale di Guizin:

I am, instead, trying to find why is that 30fps on console is smoother than 30fps on PC. I have already stated that this is TRULY not a problem of unstable framerate. I have a very powerful rig, and it have zero problem on maintaining 30fps CONSTANT on any game, not matter the settings. It does however have problems maintaining 60fps constant, which is somewhat unsettling. And consoles are not FPS locked. They are CAPPED at 30fps, and even they have problems on getting that framerate. There isn't anything like locking the frame rate. If the hardware can't keep 30fps, then it will not, no matter in what circunstances. And this is not even my point. My point is that 30fps on consoles looks smoother than 30fps on PC, and I'm just trying to find out why. I've Google it, and some people claimed that this could be related to mouse+keyboard controls. As I said before, it doens't make sense, but I have no means to verify it, so, if someone could please do it for me and inform the results accurately, well, than thanks.

When people started going on about "consoles run only at 30fps..." I remember the first person shooter games on the PS2; Half Life 1, Medal of Honor frontline. Xbox1; Halo, Mace Griffin.
And then look at the 30/40fps for PC first person shooter games. They struggled, they are hard to aim or shoot in.

No console was this bad. Not PS2, Xbox 1. And PS3 first person games are even smoother than before.
There was only 1 game and 1 console that was so bad at just 1 game; Turok 2 on the N64. THAT is what you call console lag!

Thumbs up to you for mentioning this. I thought I was the only one.

[Guizin]

Messaggio originale di Boglin:

Messaggio originale di Guizin:

I am, instead, trying to find why is that 30fps on console is smoother than 30fps on PC. I have already stated that this is TRULY not a problem of unstable framerate. I have a very powerful rig, and it have zero problem on maintaining 30fps CONSTANT on any game, not matter the settings. It does however have problems maintaining 60fps constant, which is somewhat unsettling. And consoles are not FPS locked. They are CAPPED at 30fps, and even they have problems on getting that framerate. There isn't anything like locking the frame rate. If the hardware can't keep 30fps, then it will not, no matter in what circunstances. And this is not even my point. My point is that 30fps on consoles looks smoother than 30fps on PC, and I'm just trying to find out why. I've Google it, and some people claimed that this could be related to mouse+keyboard controls. As I said before, it doens't make sense, but I have no means to verify it, so, if someone could please do it for me and inform the results accurately, well, than thanks.

When people started going on about "consoles run only at 30fps..." I remember the first person shooter games on the PS2; Half Life 1, Medal of Honor frontline. Xbox1; Halo, Mace Griffin.
And then look at the 30/40fps for PC first person shooter games. They struggled, they are hard to aim or shoot in.

No console was this bad. Not PS2, Xbox 1. And PS3 first person games are even smoother than before.
There was only 1 game and 1 console that was so bad at just 1 game; Turok 2 on the N64. THAT is what you call console lag!

Thumbs up to you for mentioning this. I thought I was the only one.

I never say that consoles run only at 30fps. Dirt 3 and Rage runs at 60. But in the end, it doesn't matter. 30fps on consoles is smoother than 30fps on PC. <<< This is the only thing that matters.

[Rubik748]

Messaggio originale di Guizin:

I never say that consoles run only at 30fps. Dirt 3 and Rage runs at 60. But in the end, it doesn't matter. 30fps on consoles is smoother than 30fps on PC. <<< This is the only thing that matters.

My comment here never suggested you are or were the one claiming the nonsense some people are saying. What I said was that you too suspect the things people go on about with consoles. And that it must be examined.

[scotch_egg]

As for the monitor/tv theory, TV's do 'double frame' to make up for the low cable etc frames per second so this could add to a perception of smoothness. Most tv's are 60hz but recieve less than half that in images hence the need to make up for it. When I bought a top of the range gaming monitor (benq xl240t 120hz) games looked worse on xbox but my k/d ratios improved alot. It depends if the original poster is playing games on the same screen or not. Just a theory

[PainkilleR]

I am sorry to raise up the topic from ashes but it seems like many people ask such questions even today.

They say that console 30 fps looks smoother than pc 30 fps. And of course it's not truth. The answer is really simple. People just don't know how to configure the power of hardware they have. When people want 30 fps in most cases they just lock fps on 30 on 60 hz monitors. It's obvious that they'll get choppy slideshow.

So if you have nvidia graphics card (I am sorry, I have never had ati cards so I don't have any instructions for ati users) and really want to compare/get smooth gameplay with your controller and 30 fps on pc then you have to:
1. Go to "NVIDIA Control Panel" (Click right mouse button on desktop).
2. Click on "Manage 3D settings" under "3D settings".
3. Click on "Program Settings" tab.
4. Choose program to customize from drop list (Choose your game. For example "Crysis 3". If you don't have "Crysis 3" in your drop list then you have to add "Crysis 3" executable by pressing "Add" button).
5. Specify the settings for the program.
5.1 Change "Maximum pre-rendered frames" value to "1".
5.2 Change "Vertical sync" value to "Adaptive (half refresh rate)".
7. Click "Apply" button.
8. Plug in your pc controller.
9. Launch "Crysis 3" game.
10. Go to game options and turn off "Vertical Sync"
11. Start new game.
12. Play a little bit.
13. Grab your head and say: "What was I doing all these years?!"
14. Notice how there is no step 6.

Hope you'll enjoy your pc gaming more from now on.
And by the way, could some ati user make similar instructions here so more people could get better gaming experience? Thanks.

[Mr Keefy]

Isnt it to do with vsync?

Vsync makes the framerate look smoother beause its exactly synced to the refresh rate of the monitor/TV meaning at 30FPS each frame is shown for 2 refreshes.

I tried getting 30FPS vsync on my PC but I cannot, even capping at 30FPS and enabling vsync doesn't work. Might be doing something wrong or its not possible int he game I tried.

[Guizin]

Thanks for the answers. But I kinda don't care about that anymore. Got two 780s, and a 120hz Benq monitor.