Why do people put up with Microsoft's dark patterns?

[Heitor Villa-Lobos]

Microsoft is never done inserting more personal data collection and target advertisement into their operating system for PC:

Windows 11 Has More Ads Now - Tech Linked
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=mD6ITMSgqzU

So why people don't massively leave the OS already?

It does happen for other shady companies doing questionable to downright unethical stuff: Twitter's users are well known for always complaining about Twiitter on Twitter. Even after they fired 75% of employees, only a few million people (out of hundreds of millions of accounts, counting alts) left for other microblogs and half soon came back.

So is this a frog in the pot, situation? Do people just take whatever sh*t major corporations shove on them? Do cancelations only happen for artists and internet celebrities ("influencers") but never for hundred-billionaires (and the ordinary billionaires around them)?

It is obvious that other OSs, namely GNU/Linux, would be much more optimized for gaming if companies focused on it instead of Windows, but that would only happen if a great chunk of users switched over.

Still, it seems people have grown accustomed to a new polemic every week, from NSA backdoors to selling bulk human data to data broker companies?
Is it a case of learned helplessness[en.wikipedia.org] together with herd behaviour?

It certainly makes me wonder.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Originally posted by Heitor Villa-Lobos:

Originally posted by emoticorpse:

I could even stop using pcs all together really. focus on watching movies or doing another hobby. Microsoft really does need to start luring people back to Windows. They keep on keeping on and they will create a world where Linux is the dominating OS.

Again, the observed fact is that people are not quitting Windows as fast or in numbers as they should.

I don't think Microsoft can or should "lure" people back to Windows.

I do know they have to play fair with competition (stop all their monopolistic practices) and quit with the bad practices.
Consent needs to be understood once and for all (you don't suppose "yes" and make people jump through hoops to say "no").

Fact is, the general public would never use Linux unless the OEMs start providing it. Most don't know much about it for starters.

[Rod]

Its very easy for Microsoft to solve this, Ots childsplay an average modder can fix windows. It only needs two versions what they could quickly do is strip the OS bare to the DX kernel, Strip back the Gui and every process removed so the OS should really have about 11 processes running at most compared to the 100+ of modern windows. It should use hardly any ram and be a small install from a USB stick.


They would strip it so much that it would run games and web browsing and thats it and updates would be few, Big and stable aka optional service packs quartlery. And you would once its been stripped add in the modern features again like Resizeable Bar, Game Mode and all the good stuff like Direct Storage. And align this with the Xbox as theres no reason i can see why the PC and Xbox could not share a low api to the metal os?


But thier deaf/lazy and its time to stop paying. They could make this OS and assign a small number of coders to maintain it because the core of the os is just a stripped windows 11 install that the masses use non gaming purposes like office vpn printing etc.

[MonkehMaster]

microsoft is a garbage company, they cant even bother themselves with finishing an OS and fleshing out all the bugs, before they start "unsupporting" it and trying to force everyone to use their next shiny piece of trash.

i wont even include, microsoft never listening to their customers, taking more control away, data harvesting and targeted ads, among tons of other bs.

what do we get for it, having to deal with people running around trying to invalidate legit complaints, no matter the product.... it sure would be nice if people left the whole "throw away" trend (ie.. planned obsolescence and all that nonsense), or even the whole "right to repair", ect...

yes, things change, but its not the change that bother people, its change for the better (unless its not), its the hassle of the move and relearning, not including having to deal with all the issues, workarounds, ect... i mean you either learn to/how and forcefully disable all their bs harvesting, ads,ect.. or you have to rely on a bunch of third party apps to block and disable stuff.... while keeping said third party apps working or find another that works... and all the other stuff.

i mean why instantly jump from a damn near (cant say nothing ever happens) 100% working OS, that you have no issues with and you can simply boot up and do w/e without having to fiddle, fix, ect... before you can enjoy yourself.

to this below...

to a new shiny OS, riddled with bugs, issues, crashing, ect.. (ads,telemetry and data harvesting, "last OS" nonsense, ect... aside) and also said OS never actually gets better and is left with bugs/issues/ect.. and they abandon/drop support and move on to the next one.

answer: the majority of people wouldnt (guess i wont mention how they force updated tons of pc's to win 10 and caused tons of issues), they would wait till said OS has been fleshed out and is in working order, sadly seems microsoft has moved the way of shady devs pumping out unoptimized buggy software.... but im sure glad they dont charge us, its not like they wont be making that money plus more in other ways (data, ads, businesses, ect..), or forcing tons to buy new pc's or parts, ect..

heck, i would have moved to 10, but it never got better and tons of stuff left not fixed/ect.. and they already dropped it for another new buggy mess that everyone gets forced into, we can all say "i never have any issues" or w/e other nonsense, but all computer setups arent the same, nor the user, among other factors.

well, guess sometime later down the years, when peoples pockets are thoroughly rung of money and life comes a knockin, maybe then they will try to fight back... assuming you have the fight left, while wading through all the defenders.

would be nice if someone else jumped into the market with a windows of their own (no ads, no harvesting, control given back, ect..), give them some competition and give people a choice.

TLDR: microsoft is trash.

[Heitor Villa-Lobos]

Originally posted by Bad 💀 Motha:

Fact is, the general public would never use Linux unless the OEMs start providing it. Most don't know much about it for starters.

I agree with you that it would take PC manufacturers to ship GNU/Linux with the computers. Android-linux is already dominant in the cellphone world, so clearly it is only the personal computers that still don't have primarely a OS with Linux.

But for that to happen for PCs, agreements Microsoft has with major manufacturers have to change. Maybe an anti-trust measure by major governments and trade unions could open up the competition.

[Heitor Villa-Lobos]

Originally posted by Rod:

Its very easy for Microsoft to solve this, Ots childsplay an average modder can fix windows. It only needs two versions what they could quickly do is strip the OS bare to the DX kernel, Strip back the Gui and every process removed so the OS should really have about 11 processes running at most compared to the 100+ of modern windows. It should use hardly any ram and be a small install from a USB stick.


They would strip it so much that it would run games and web browsing and thats it and updates would be few, Big and stable aka optional service packs quartlery. And you would once its been stripped add in the modern features again like Resizeable Bar, Game Mode and all the good stuff like Direct Storage. And align this with the Xbox as theres no reason i can see why the PC and Xbox could not share a low api to the metal os?


But thier deaf/lazy and its time to stop paying. They could make this OS and assign a small number of coders to maintain it because the core of the os is just a stripped windows 11 install that the masses use non gaming purposes like office vpn printing etc.

What you ask of Microsoft anyone can do with a GNU stack. In fact, you can install a GNU/Linux distro and do that yourself. You can game on a Window Manager that uses like 2MB RAM.

Computer manufacturers can even shape their own OSs, optimized for different tasks. "Gaming PC" would actually come with a gaming flavour of GNU/Linux - maybe even switching Linux for Linux-zen or something.

That's what I say: Microsoft Windows is holding all of computing back.

[Heitor Villa-Lobos]

Originally posted by MonkehMaster:

TLDR: microsoft is trash.

Well are you still submitting yourself to it?

[Rod]

Originally posted by Heitor Villa-Lobos:

Originally posted by Rod:

Its very easy for Microsoft to solve this, Ots childsplay an average modder can fix windows. It only needs two versions what they could quickly do is strip the OS bare to the DX kernel, Strip back the Gui and every process removed so the OS should really have about 11 processes running at most compared to the 100+ of modern windows. It should use hardly any ram and be a small install from a USB stick.


They would strip it so much that it would run games and web browsing and thats it and updates would be few, Big and stable aka optional service packs quartlery. And you would once its been stripped add in the modern features again like Resizeable Bar, Game Mode and all the good stuff like Direct Storage. And align this with the Xbox as theres no reason i can see why the PC and Xbox could not share a low api to the metal os?


But thier deaf/lazy and its time to stop paying. They could make this OS and assign a small number of coders to maintain it because the core of the os is just a stripped windows 11 install that the masses use non gaming purposes like office vpn printing etc.

What you ask of Microsoft anyone can do with a GNU stack. In fact, you can install a GNU/Linux distro and do that yourself. You can game on a Window Manager that uses like 2MB RAM.

Computer manufacturers can even shape their own OSs, optimized for different tasks. "Gaming PC" would actually come with a gaming flavour of GNU/Linux - maybe even switching Linux for Linux-zen or something.

That's what I say: Microsoft Windows is holding all of computing back.

Yea but it has to be bundled or advertised otherwise no one will know about it. Market share is the king windows has the market share and thus they win but if we could get someone like Steam and OS 4.0 to start the ball rolling i think we can do it.


The main thing is education among pc users of why as a last resort you want to use Windows. You are throwong away privacy and performance theres hidden untapped power that we cant get to as the bloat layer of windows holds us back.

[r.linder]

Originally posted by Rod:

Originally posted by Heitor Villa-Lobos:

What you ask of Microsoft anyone can do with a GNU stack. In fact, you can install a GNU/Linux distro and do that yourself. You can game on a Window Manager that uses like 2MB RAM.

Computer manufacturers can even shape their own OSs, optimized for different tasks. "Gaming PC" would actually come with a gaming flavour of GNU/Linux - maybe even switching Linux for Linux-zen or something.

That's what I say: Microsoft Windows is holding all of computing back.

Yea but it has to be bundled or advertised otherwise no one will know about it. Market share is the king windows has the market share and thus they win but if we could get someone like Steam and OS 4.0 to start the ball rolling i think we can do it.


The main thing is education among pc users of why as a last resort you want to use Windows. You are throwong away privacy and performance theres hidden untapped power that we cant get to as the bloat layer of windows holds us back.

Atlas guts Windows 10, removing a lot of the bloat and speeding it up for older hardware, doesn't make much of a noticeable impact on modern hardware though.

Potential problems when you remove a lot of that crap though is that it can potentially brick the OS.

[Heitor Villa-Lobos]

Yah, like removing Edge can brick Windows.
It would be an alright browser, if they didn't nag users into using it.

[r.linder]

Originally posted by Heitor Villa-Lobos:

Yah, like removing Edge can brick Windows.
It would be an alright browser, if they didn't nag users into using it.

It's also chromium now so it's just worse.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

How are you nagged to use Edge? I've not once since doing a clean install of Win10 22H2 or Win11 22H2 nagged to use Edge. I have it disabled along with its auto updater. Why is this so hard for the average user when a 10 yr old can figure all of this out.

I use Opera and Chrome. No problems.

[r.linder]

Edge is Chromium so it's hardly different from Opera and Chrome, they all use the same framework. It's all garbage geared against privacy, even browsers marketed for privacy like Brave which also uses CEF.

Firefox is the way.

[Omega]

Originally posted by Bad 💀 Motha:

How are you nagged to use Edge? I've not once since doing a clean install of Win10 22H2 or Win11 22H2 nagged to use Edge. I have it disabled along with its auto updater. Why is this so hard for the average user when a 10 yr old can figure all of this out.

I use Opera and Chrome. No problems.

- Edge is default and is purposefully made as hard to change as possible
- When Firefox reverse engineered how Edge is able to add itself as the default browser Microsoft quickly patched this hack (Read: Playful cleverness) making Firefox unable to add itself as the default browser with a single click
- Microsoft apps such as Teams default to Edge irrelevant of what you configure
- When searching for alternative browsers on Edge + Bing it shows a popup telling you there is no need to install a new browser.
- Microsoft recently tested injecting banners on the Chrome Canary download page which tell you to use Edge instead

Edge = Chromium but Microsoft
Opera = Chromium but China

Both are for-profit, I wouldn't trust either with my data. And they support the Chromium monopoly.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

None of that matters to me because I can choose to block entire traffic lanes of certain things using the Pi-hole method.

[Omega]

Originally posted by Bad 💀 Motha:

None of that matters to me because I can choose to block entire traffic lanes of certain things using the Pi-hole method.

Depends. If the software uses DNS to finds its servers you can indeed block it.

The software does still remain malicious spyware, so why use it?

DNS blocking can be circumvented by not using DNS and hard coding IPs. Large internet-based companies, especially those who have been around for a while often own IP addresses. This type of traffic your Pihole will not block, a firewall would have to do that. Pihole is not a magical solution to all your problems, especially if the opponent is a driven data miner.