Faiyez (已封禁) 2024 年 12 月 13 日 下午 6:13
What will you do when your favorite new releases force ray tracing that can't be disabled?
Some of you are skipping Indiana Jones because of this. But what happens with games that people will actually want to play?

Will you play Witcher 4 or GTA 6 if they force ray tracing?
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正在显示第 121 - 135 条,共 200 条留言
SHREDDER 2 月 2 日 下午 1:18 
it is happens for decades as graphics become better requirmeents are higher. DOOM 3 in 2004 needed a pc from the future to run maxed 60 fps . i had then in 2004 athlon xp and 5700le and ihad played it at medium 640x480 60 fps. Only in 2006 when i did a full pc upgrade and got athlon x2 and 7900 gt finalyp layed ultra/maxed 1280x1024 at 60 fps. 3D became mandadory after 2001 in all games then we got much better graphics. Now they make ray tracing becaue as lighiting and shadows quality gets better it is impossible to make them as godo quality on cards withotu ray tracing.
r.linder 2 月 2 日 下午 1:26 
引用自 D. Flame
引用自 r.linder
RT is fine when it's applied well, it's changing the future of graphics regardless of your opinion
A 30% performance hit to make a shadow on a leaf, that you just sprint past without even looking at, slightly more realistic is NOT "cHaNgiN dA fUtUrE oF gAmIn".

Unless by, "changing the future of gaming," you mean getting more and more devs fired and studios closed, in which case, yes, it is doing that. These AAA studios are trying to force expensive (as in both price and performance) tech that gamers never asked for, making it mandatory, and getting so focused on it that they are forgetting to make games fun.

And what is happening? 1 out of every 10 devs was laid off in 2024. If that is the future that you are looking at, then so be it.
Raytraced graphics actually look good when you don't keep yourself blind by mentally deciding that it's no different. There's a huge difference between maxed RT and raster graphics in many cases, in other cases where it makes little difference would be poor implementation and not representative of what it's actually like.
D. Flame 2 月 2 日 下午 1:31 
引用自 r.linder
引用自 D. Flame
A 30% performance hit to make a shadow on a leaf, that you just sprint past without even looking at, slightly more realistic is NOT "cHaNgiN dA fUtUrE oF gAmIn".

Unless by, "changing the future of gaming," you mean getting more and more devs fired and studios closed, in which case, yes, it is doing that. These AAA studios are trying to force expensive (as in both price and performance) tech that gamers never asked for, making it mandatory, and getting so focused on it that they are forgetting to make games fun.

And what is happening? 1 out of every 10 devs was laid off in 2024. If that is the future that you are looking at, then so be it.
Raytraced graphics actually look good
No one said Ray Tracing looked bad. It just doesn't offer enough of an uplift to justify the performance hit. It like a 1% graphics uplift for a 30% performance hit.
r.linder 2 月 2 日 下午 1:37 
引用自 D. Flame
引用自 r.linder
Raytraced graphics actually look good
No one said Ray Tracing looked bad. It just doesn't offer enough of an uplift to justify the performance hit. It like a 1% graphics uplift for a 30% performance hit.
It's a lot more than 1%, you just choose not to see the real improvement, and the performance hit will be nothing for modern hardware by time it's actually consistently forced. Performance is already fine with DLSS and FSR without frame generation unless you have an old or really low end GPU.

So by time RT is a forced standard and raster is essentially a thing of the past, we're going to be looking at several more generations ahead and even the legendary 1080 Ti would be considered obsolete, and pretty much all of its fanboys would have moved on from it by that point.

Again, the people who have hardware by that point that can't handle that probably shouldn't be worrying about video games if they haven't upgraded their hardware by that point if they're going to be complaining about new games from that point onwards only offering raytracing settings, video games were always a luxury and they should be focusing on their finances so they don't have to complain about it.
最后由 r.linder 编辑于; 2 月 2 日 下午 1:48
D. Flame 2 月 2 日 下午 2:13 
引用自 r.linder
引用自 D. Flame
No one said Ray Tracing looked bad. It just doesn't offer enough of an uplift to justify the performance hit. It like a 1% graphics uplift for a 30% performance hit.
It's a lot more than 1%, you just choose not to see the real improvement, and the performance hit will be nothing for modern hardware by time it's actually consistently forced.
If it was more than 1% then I would see it without having to force myself to look for it.
r.linder 2 月 2 日 下午 2:18 
引用自 D. Flame
引用自 r.linder
It's a lot more than 1%, you just choose not to see the real improvement, and the performance hit will be nothing for modern hardware by time it's actually consistently forced.
If it was more than 1% then I would see it without having to force myself to look for it.
Interesting, I don't have to force myself to see it because I have eyes and can very clearly see it.

Maybe don't use specific examples where it's poorly implemented, and don't choose the lowest available RT settings if you actually want to see a difference in graphical quality. It's obviously not going to make that much of a difference when you don't use every tool at its disposal. Can't really argue too much on performance either when you picked a 4060 tier card which was already dogged on at launch, you should've known better.
最后由 r.linder 编辑于; 2 月 2 日 下午 2:36
Haruspex 2 月 2 日 下午 2:31 
Back in the day when games were coming out that required a GPU that supported Pixel Shader 2.0, I had to upgrade. And before that when there were games that required a 3d accelerator and I couldn't rely on software mode being available anymore. The RT requirement is sort of the same issue.

RT capability has been in Nvidia cards now for seven years and AMD cards for 5 years. Even last generation mobile AMD APUs and low powered devices like the Steam Deck have RT capability.

So really the question of "What will you do when your favorite new releases force ray tracing that can't be disabled?" can be answered one of two ways. Either upgrade to something with RT, or don't and just don't play those games.
最后由 Haruspex 编辑于; 2 月 2 日 下午 2:32
Nikonos 2 月 2 日 下午 2:36 
引用自 Faiyez
Will you play Witcher 4 or GTA 6 if they force ray tracing?
I've been using Ray Tracing since 1995 (as an AutoCad extension).
If the rumors are true I won't be playing either of those games.
Not because of RT, but because of the amount of injected DEI-crap.
RT is okay, all day, every day.
引用自 AmaiAmai
引用自 Ontrix_Kitsune
Obviously that's a complete lie. If you had lived through those eras then you would of known the past as everyone has been trying to remind you of instead of making up complete nonsense trying to trigger people into arguing with you.

Not really. Gamers from that era should remember what gaming was about - -when you can call your friends over and play games together, laugh and relax.

No one really cared about realistic graphics or anything, they cared about fun -- something games since 2012 have been devoid of as companies push more and more nonsense to get you to open your wallet on the software and hardware side of things.

Imagine how flexing was perceived back in the day. You friend told you he spent 400 on some Nike shoes, what did you say? He's an idiot.

Yet now, someone spends 3200 on a GPU and people look on with envy? :steamhappy:

Society as a whole has gone downhill, but especially the PC gaming space.

When games came out buggy, we demanded fixes back then. When games needed top tier hardware we said 'No. Fix your game so that it runs better'

But now? People literally bend and take it. And then when companies do optimise a few years later, then praise the companies for doing so when they should have from the get-go.

Gaming is nothing more than another destroyed medium these days like fashion. It's really getting to the point where it's becoming a pathetic flex like people running around with Gucci bags (or even fakes ).
Well put, the developers now tell us to "fix their game" use your high powered GPU to add the frames, smoothing, and resolutions that we didn't.
D. Flame 2 月 2 日 下午 3:21 
引用自 Nikonos
引用自 Faiyez
Will you play Witcher 4 or GTA 6 if they force ray tracing?
I've been using Ray Tracing since 1995 (as an AutoCad extension).
Ray tracing has been around for longer than that even. The issue is just that it is so performance impacting that it wasn't something that was done in real time.

Like 3D animated movies would use it, let it render slowly, then save it as a prerendered video. You could use that same technique in video games by prerendering it, saving it as a video file, and playing it on a loop in the background.

The issue has just always been that it is too slow and performance heavy to effectively do it in real time.
引用自 D. Flame
引用自 r.linder
RT is fine when it's applied well, it's changing the future of graphics regardless of your opinion
A 30% performance hit to make a shadow on a leaf, that you just sprint past without even looking at, slightly more realistic is NOT "cHaNgiN dA fUtUrE oF gAmIn".

Unless by, "changing the future of gaming," you mean getting more and more devs fired and studios closed, in which case, yes, it is doing that. These AAA studios are trying to force expensive (as in both price and performance) tech that gamers never asked for, making it mandatory, and getting so focused on it that they are forgetting to make games fun.

And what is happening? 1 out of every 10 devs was laid off in 2024. If that is the future that you are looking at, then so be it.
It's not a 30% hit to performance if you have a fast enough video card. Faster video cards can run raytracing with only a 5% or 7% loss to performance. Which they're usually already doing 100+ FPS in games without raytracing. They may get reduced to 90 or 80 FPS with raytracing on with faster cards. It's completely trivial.

Your problem is you bought slow mid-range cards where the impact with RT on is huge and you think that your experience translates to all video cards. Your view of raytracing is skewed and not the typical experience.
最后由 Ontrix_Kitsune 编辑于; 2 月 2 日 下午 3:37
D. Flame 2 月 2 日 下午 3:53 
引用自 Ontrix_Kitsune
引用自 D. Flame
A 30% performance hit to make a shadow on a leaf, that you just sprint past without even looking at, slightly more realistic is NOT "cHaNgiN dA fUtUrE oF gAmIn".

Unless by, "changing the future of gaming," you mean getting more and more devs fired and studios closed, in which case, yes, it is doing that. These AAA studios are trying to force expensive (as in both price and performance) tech that gamers never asked for, making it mandatory, and getting so focused on it that they are forgetting to make games fun.

And what is happening? 1 out of every 10 devs was laid off in 2024. If that is the future that you are looking at, then so be it.
It's not a 30% hit to performance if you have a fast enough video card. Faster video cards can run raytracing with only a 5% or 7% loss to performance. Which they're usually already doing 100+ FPS in games without raytracing. They may get reduced to 90 or 80 FPS with raytracing on with faster cards. It's completely trivial.

Your problem is you bought slow mid-range cards where the impact with RT on is huge and you think that your experience translates to all video cards. Your view of raytracing is skewed and not the typical experience.
Get back to me when they can maintain 120FPS without fake frames or upscaling with pathtracing turned on while using a GPU that doesn't cost more than a new game console by itself.
r.linder 2 月 2 日 下午 3:58 
引用自 D. Flame
引用自 Ontrix_Kitsune
It's not a 30% hit to performance if you have a fast enough video card. Faster video cards can run raytracing with only a 5% or 7% loss to performance. Which they're usually already doing 100+ FPS in games without raytracing. They may get reduced to 90 or 80 FPS with raytracing on with faster cards. It's completely trivial.

Your problem is you bought slow mid-range cards where the impact with RT on is huge and you think that your experience translates to all video cards. Your view of raytracing is skewed and not the typical experience.
Get back to me when they can maintain 120FPS without fake frames or upscaling with pathtracing turned on while using a GPU that doesn't cost more than a new game console by itself.
Or just get more money so you don't have to complain about not getting 120 FPS with settings maxed in every game... Which not even the 4090 was capable of in every single game below 2160p.

The kind of thing you're suggesting isn't even likely to happen for another decade, or longer
最后由 r.linder 编辑于; 2 月 2 日 下午 4:04
Nikonos 2 月 2 日 下午 3:58 
引用自 D. Flame
引用自 Nikonos
I've been using Ray Tracing since 1995 (as an AutoCad extension).
Ray tracing has been around for longer than that even. The issue is just that it is so performance impacting that it wasn't something that was done in real time.

Like 3D animated movies would use it, let it render slowly, then save it as a prerendered video. You could use that same technique in video games by prerendering it, saving it as a video file, and playing it on a loop in the background.

The issue has just always been that it is too slow and performance heavy to effectively do it in real time.
Not an issue for me, and I used it every day. Issues come from elsewhere.
引用自 D. Flame
Get back to me when they can maintain 120FPS without fake frames or upscaling with pathtracing turned on while using a GPU that doesn't cost more than a new game console by itself.
That will come with time when we get newer faster video cards. For now people should be happy enough to get 60 FPS (or above) with raytracing on and deal with it.

You need to look back in history: The very first video cards that supported DirectX-10 were released in 2007. At that time those cards trying to run DirectX-10 saw as much as a -40% to -50% drop in performance compared to running DirectX-9 games. It wasn't until many years later into about 2011-2012 that we had video cards that could run DirectX-10 smoothly at a high FPS. As everyone has been TRYING to tell you (but you ignore): New technologies take time for video card hardware to catch up. This has happened in the past and it is happening now. It's the same cycle all over again. It's not a big deal. Just wait until faster cards come out then all these early teething pains we experience with today's hardware will be a thing of the past.

Then later they will come up with some other new technology and video cards will be slow again for 4-5 generations until they catch up with it. This always happens.
最后由 Ontrix_Kitsune 编辑于; 2 月 2 日 下午 4:10
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发帖日期: 2024 年 12 月 13 日 下午 6:13
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