What will you do when your favorite new releases force ray tracing that can't be disabled?

[Faiyez]

Some of you are skipping Indiana Jones because of this. But what happens with games that people will actually want to play?

Will you play Witcher 4 or GTA 6 if they force ray tracing?

[PopinFRESH]

Publicado originalmente por Bad 💀 Motha:

Before 3DFX GLIDE ever came into the picture I remember running most games in DOS using Diamond Stealth GPU and SoundBlaster 16 and later AWE32. Then came Win95 and DIABLO game which used DirectX.

Was not until Tomb Raider and Need for Speed 2 did 3DFX Glide come around

3DFX Glide was in the original Quake my dude. You a misremembering.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

No, you are just missing the point.

I understand exactly the point: It's a new technology and we do not yet have hardware able to run it at a high performance level we've come to expect from previous technologies. This always happens when a new graphics technology is released.

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

Like people thought that the 3d Graphics on the PS1 looked like crap compared to the 2D games of the day, but everyone saw that there was massive potential in 3D graphics, so we dealt with it. Now we see the returns on modern 3D games.

I thought this thread was discussing ray tracing performance in computer games on computers? Now you're trying to bring consoles into this discussion? That has nothing at all to do with anything being discussed in this thread.

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

The issue is that ray tracing is a massive performance hit, but the returns are minimal and barely noticeable. The costs are just as high as the problems in your example, but they don't have nearly the potential benefits as the 2D to 3D change as in my example.

Of course it's a big performance hit. As I described above in my previous comment: All new graphics technologies are always a big performance hit on the early video cards we have when the new technology releases. It's part of how computers and technology works. A Couple more years and new video card families and ray tracing will be so fast and smooth that we'll forget all about these times now today where it's difficult to run.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

FF7 (PS1):

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

DarkStalkers (PS1)

You're still trying to discuss consoles in a forum thread about computer graphics?

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Publicado originalmente por PopinFRESH:

Publicado originalmente por Bad 💀 Motha:

Before 3DFX GLIDE ever came into the picture I remember running most games in DOS using Diamond Stealth GPU and SoundBlaster 16 and later AWE32. Then came Win95 and DIABLO game which used DirectX.

Was not until Tomb Raider and Need for Speed 2 did 3DFX Glide come around

3DFX Glide was in the original Quake my dude. You a misremembering.

I never said it wasn't.

Quake and Tomb Raider came out the same year. Yes 3DFX was there then and just getting started. Like anything it wasn't all that great at the start. Voodoo2 and others were much better after 1996

[Monk]

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

Publicado originalmente por Monk:

By the time play station arrived 3d looked notably better than 2d in most cases.

FF7 (PS1):
https://youtu.be/SeO3N4oymnE?si=j3JmuFXQ4kRqtm_C&t=236

DarkStalkers (PS1)
https://youtu.be/t1h_vanafL0?si=1y-o8YRVGzT2CTL_

I said most, but still, you are comparing a fighting game with no world around it with one if the largest rpgs ever at the time.

Try comparing it with tekken or gran turusmo, both release titles, wipe out looked incredible at the time also, all of which required far more power and were relitively new tech still vs a fame that could run on a 16 but console.

[D. Flame]

Publicado originalmente por Ontrix_Kitsune:

I thought this thread was discussing ray tracing performance in computer games on computers? Now you're trying to bring consoles into this discussion? That has nothing at all to do with anything being discussed in this thread.

Exactly, you are missing the point. Just like I said.

Of course it's a big performance hit. As I described above in my previous comment: All new graphics technologies are always a big performance hit on the early video cards we have when the new technology releases. It's part of how computers and technology works. A Couple more years and new video card families and ray tracing will be so fast and smooth that we'll forget all about these times now today where it's difficult to run.

No, it's not. Anyone worth their salt does not push to production something that harms performance without having a real, tangible, and current reason for doing so.

And gamers are willing to eat a performance hit if there if they see a real benefit in it. That does not exist here.

Try getting a job at a factory and pushing a code update that reduces production per hour by 30%, then when you get called on it, just tell them, "this will be super efficient in 10 years when we get new technology installed," and watch how fast they fire your ass.

[D. Flame]

Publicado originalmente por Monk:

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

FF7 (PS1):
https://youtu.be/SeO3N4oymnE?si=j3JmuFXQ4kRqtm_C&t=236

DarkStalkers (PS1)
https://youtu.be/t1h_vanafL0?si=1y-o8YRVGzT2CTL_

I said most, but still, you are comparing a fighting game with no world around it with one if the largest rpgs ever at the time.

Try comparing it with tekken or gran turusmo, both release titles, wipe out looked incredible at the time also, all of which required far more power and were relitively new tech still vs a fame that could run on a 16 but console.

Tekken still looks worse:
https://youtu.be/KUtEr25l928?si=s9hRzGMtIlnuhuh7&t=228

[Monk]

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

Publicado originalmente por Ontrix_Kitsune:

I thought this thread was discussing ray tracing performance in computer games on computers? Now you're trying to bring consoles into this discussion? That has nothing at all to do with anything being discussed in this thread.

Exactly, you are missing the point. Just like I said.

Of course it's a big performance hit. As I described above in my previous comment: All new graphics technologies are always a big performance hit on the early video cards we have when the new technology releases. It's part of how computers and technology works. A Couple more years and new video card families and ray tracing will be so fast and smooth that we'll forget all about these times now today where it's difficult to run.

No, it's not. Anyone worth their salt does not push to production something that harms performance without having a real, tangible, and current reason for doing so.

And gamers are willing to eat a performance hit if there if they see a real benefit in it. That does not exist here.

Try getting a job at a factory and pushing a code update that reduces production per hour by 30%, then when you get called on it, just tell them, "this will be super efficient in 10 years when we get new technology installed," and watch how fast they fire your ass.

That is not even remotely comparable.

Plus, raytracing works fine and looks amazing, the upscaling and frame gen tech us truly next level and is opening up these visuals to a wider audience, we are only a couple iterations in so far, give it a couple more and it will just be the norm, just like 3d, physics, water, hair simulations etc are now but we're all seen as unnecessary when new.

Edit.

Nope, doesn't look worse, it's different, going 3d added an entire new gameplay element and I'd say looks better than the pixel art.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

No, it's not. Anyone worth their salt does not push to production something that harms performance

And yet that is EXACTLY What they did with every previous version of DirectX that ever released for PC. Seriously: Go learn about computing history before you further embarass yourself in the steam forums. You just proved yourself wrong with your own comments.

It seems like you're just trying to make arguments in this forum thread just for the sake of arguing. Is that your goal here? Are you searching for more jester clown awards?

[D. Flame]

Publicado originalmente por Monk:

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

Exactly, you are missing the point. Just like I said.


No, it's not. Anyone worth their salt does not push to production something that harms performance without having a real, tangible, and current reason for doing so.

And gamers are willing to eat a performance hit if there if they see a real benefit in it. That does not exist here.

Try getting a job at a factory and pushing a code update that reduces production per hour by 30%, then when you get called on it, just tell them, "this will be super efficient in 10 years when we get new technology installed," and watch how fast they fire your ass.

That is not even remotely comparable.

Plus, raytracing works fine and looks amazing, the upscaling and frame gen tech us truly next level and is opening up these visuals to a wider audience, we are only a couple iterations in so far, give it a couple more and it will just be the norm, just like 3d, physics, water, hair simulations etc are now but we're all seen as unnecessary when new.

Edit.

Nope, doesn't look worse, it's different, going 3d added an entire new gameplay element and I'd say looks better than the pixel art.

I never said that ray tracing doesn't look fine. It does look "fine," and that is the problem. It doesn't look great, amazing, or even just noticeably better. It just looks, "fine," but it introduces a major performance degradation, just like in my factory example.

[D. Flame]

Publicado originalmente por Ontrix_Kitsune:

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

No, it's not. Anyone worth their salt does not push to production something that harms performance

And yet that is EXACTLY What they did with every previous version of DirectX that ever released for PC. Seriously: Go learn about computing history before you further embarass yourself in the steam forums. You just proved yourself wrong with your own comments.

See:

Publicado originalmente por D. Flame:

Publicado originalmente por Ontrix_Kitsune:

I thought this thread was discussing ray tracing performance in computer games on computers? Now you're trying to bring consoles into this discussion? That has nothing at all to do with anything being discussed in this thread.

Exactly, you are missing the point. Just like I said.

[The Brown Hornet]

Publicado originalmente por Faiyez:

Publicado originalmente por MancSoulja:

What is forced ray tracing?

Does Doom have "forced Vulcan"

Does Cyberpunk have "forced DX12"

Does Unreal have "Forced OpenGL"

Are you new to PC gaming or something?

What did you do when you got your band new Riva TNT card home and the game you wanted to play needed Voodoo graphics?

RT is a garbage feature whose performance cost in no way justifies the visual change. It is obviously meant to make suckers upgrade and now they want to force it down our throats.

This

[WarBucks]

Rt is a function of a vendor specific thing. its usful in that its putting hardware in the hands of people early.

But eventually the shader cores will be in the protocols, and by then lower range GPUs will be doing it.

Maybe itll be called Direct 13 i dont know.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/enabling-neural-rendering-in-directx-cooperative-vector-support-coming-soon/

2060 will probably be the minimum. But it could very well need 8GB of vram at a minimum

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Publicado originalmente por WarBucks:

Rt is a function of a vendor specific thing. its usful in that its putting hardware in the hands of people early.

No it's not. Raytracing is NOT specific to any one vendor of video card. All current-gen video cards from all companies support Raytracing now. This is because it's a new emerging standard that will be in all games in the future.

[D. Flame]

Publicado originalmente por Faiyez:

Publicado originalmente por MancSoulja:

What is forced ray tracing?

Does Doom have "forced Vulcan"

Does Cyberpunk have "forced DX12"

Does Unreal have "Forced OpenGL"

Are you new to PC gaming or something?

What did you do when you got your band new Riva TNT card home and the game you wanted to play needed Voodoo graphics?

RT is a garbage feature whose performance cost in no way justifies the visual change. It is obviously meant to make suckers upgrade and now they want to force it down our throats.

Exactly right.

Like look at Crisis. That game was made for hardware that didn't exist yet, and everyone poked fun at it for this, but it was also optional. You could play at lower settings and people could clearly see the benefits that it was offering, so it didn't get review bombed of laughed out of existence.

Ray tracing offers none of that, and it is largely being rejected by gamers. So devs are starting to be spiteful about it, and they are forcing it in several newer games.