What will you do when your favorite new releases force ray tracing that can't be disabled?

[Faiyez]

Some of you are skipping Indiana Jones because of this. But what happens with games that people will actually want to play?

Will you play Witcher 4 or GTA 6 if they force ray tracing?

[A&A]

Escrito originalmente por Ontrix_Kitsune:

Your comparison doesn't work. PhysX was an Nvidia-only technology that only worked on Windows. Raytracing is open-source and all hardware vendors and operating systems support it.

Oh really?
https://github.com/NVIDIA-Omniverse/PhysX

It can run on Nvidia GPU or even a CPU (this part is completely open source btw). Not only that, but there is also a PhysX SDK for Linux (you just have to compile it).
Also I wonder when you became so interested in other operating systems and not just Windows 10/11?

Anyway, there is also Zluda which is an interesting project and should theoretically be able to run v2.

[Andrius227]

Escrito originalmente por A&A:

is PhysX forced yet? It is amazing feature, isn't it?
The same story with ray tracing.

We don't see the name 'PhysX' anymore, but most games do have physics, which is basically the same thing. Nvidia invented it, everyone else copied it. Now its always on in most games. The same thing happened with shadows too, originally a fancy 'gimmick' in a few games, then optional, now always on.

The same thing will happen to raytracing. It will become standard and there will be no way to disable it.

[MancSoulja]

Escrito originalmente por Andrius227:

Escrito originalmente por A&A:

is PhysX forced yet? It is amazing feature, isn't it?
The same story with ray tracing.

We don't see the name 'PhysX' anymore, but most games do have physics, which is basically the same thing. Nvidia invented it, everyone else copied it. Now its always on in most games. The same thing happened with shadows too, originally a fancy 'gimmick' in a few games, then optional, now always on.

The same thing will happen to raytracing. It will become standard and there will be no way to disable it.

PhysX still exists and is still used, it was just rolled into Nvidia's GameWorks SDK

[A&A]

Escrito originalmente por Andrius227:

We don't see the name 'PhysX' anymore, but most games do have physics, which is basically the same thing. Nvidia invented it, everyone else copied it. Now its always on in most games. The same thing happened with shadows too, originally a fancy 'gimmick' in a few games, then optional, now always on.

The same thing will happen to raytracing. It will become standard and there will be no way to disable it.

Yes, because physics started as a feature, but was eventually implemented in another way. In the beginning, PhysX (it is already mentioned) to run, a PPU was required.
Today, physics is handled by the CPU.
So it is not required to have PPU anymore. Now that NPUs started to come along, it will be interesting to see what change will bring.

Shadows. There are techniques that can use the GPU or CPU, or both, including ray tracing in cathegory.

[Obsessive Power]

Doesn't affect me in the slightest RTX 4070 TI Super 16GB.

And yes, I play games with RT on (not always Path Tracing) and I love it. No way is RT a gimmick or some cynical ploy to get you to buy a new GPU.

[Phénomènes Mystiques]

Escrito originalmente por Obsessive Power:

Doesn't affect me in the slightest RTX 4070 TI Super 16GB.

And yes, I play games with RT on (not always Path Tracing) and I love it. No way is RT a gimmick or some cynical ploy to get you to buy a new GPU.

At least you were smart and stayed away from all those other trash 40 series cards (unless of course if you bought PNY, Gigabyte, or ASUS then I will pray for you).

[Corona Scurrae]

Something you won't hear most talk about is the fact that ray tracing looks grainy. Like looking at an oil pastel painting. It looks OK when everything stands still - you can still notice artifacts - but as soon as there is any motion the entire image becomes smudgy as if someone enabled a blur filter.
The reason it's going mainstream is due to NVIDIA succeeding to conflate their data center and consumer products.

With that said I'm not interested in any of those games. Rock star has created two slops during the last decade and I doubt the third one is going to be significantly better.
Cdpr created cp... which was mid at best - to put it mildly - and I doubt the next witcher will be any better considering they are focusing on visual fidelity with this one too.
And indi is bad. They should have named it Indiana Jones and the legend of endless fisticuffs.

In the end Idc about modern games. Most of my wish listed games are indies.

[ˢᵈˣ FatCat]

Preach it brother

[PopinFRESH]

Escrito originalmente por Andrius227:

Escrito originalmente por A&A:

is PhysX forced yet? It is amazing feature, isn't it?
The same story with ray tracing.

We don't see the name 'PhysX' anymore, but most games do have physics, which is basically the same thing. Nvidia invented it, everyone else copied it. Now its always on in most games. The same thing happened with shadows too, originally a fancy 'gimmick' in a few games, then optional, now always on.

The same thing will happen to raytracing. It will become standard and there will be no way to disable it.

Nvidia didn't invent PhysX; nor did they invent physics in games. Physics was starting to be implemented in games because developers were trying to make dynamic and realistic things happen in-game without having to try to script everything. NovodeX AG (AGEIA Technologies Inc. as the US company) developed one of the first physics engines and created the PhysX accelerator designed to accelerate physics calculations like the GPU did for 3D graphics rendering. Because of how Nvidia approached their GPU design (via CUDA) they recognized the overlap in math functions between the dedicated physics accelerator chip and how they handled CUDA via highly parallel shader programs.

Nvidia bought NovodeX AG / AGEIA Technologies for the NovodeX engine, which had been branded as PhysX when launching the PhysX Physics Processing Unit (PPU) and then Nvidia re-implemented it with acceleration via CUDA to leverage their GPUs resources instead of needing a separate PPU. Later, they expanded its use case for developers by refactoring it to automatically scale the physics modeling complexity to allow it to run on a broader range of hardware (e.g. CPUs and other GPUs) in order to broaden its appeal to try to get more developers to utilize it.

Having physics in a game is not the same as having PhysX in a game. PhysX wasn't the first physics engine either. Tresspasser was the first game with a physics engine built in which leveraged the new x86 CPU extensions from AMD's 3DNow! to accelerate the physics calculations. Further, where physics implementation was really kicked off was in Valve's use of the new Havok physics engine in Half-Life 2; 5 years prior to PhysX being commercially implemented.

Ray Tracing will follow the same path, not because Nvidia was able to implement a simplified process for real-time rendering with it and then commercialized it; but for the same reason developers were trying to implement physics. In order to make things in a game behave more realistically / as people would intuit them to behave; without having developers/artists manually setting up and tuning or scripting things to achieve some effects. Full path tracing will eventually replace rasterization as a rendering method because it more realistically models the behavior of lighting without needing developers/artists placing thousands of lighting nodes and manually lighting areas in a game; but we are still quite a ways off of that being a requirement.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Escrito originalmente por A&A:

Also I wonder when you became so interested in other operating systems and not just Windows 10/11?

I own many computers that operate almost every operating system that has ever been released and some beta versions in testing machines that were never released to the public. MS-DOS & PC-DOS, Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, 2000, 2003-server, Linux Redhat, Debian, Ubuntu, MintOS, I own one of every generation of Apple computers from the Apple II through newer apple computers with the M1 chips, I own a functional partial mainframe system in the basement that runs UNIX and another that runs IBM Z/OS. I own multiple Solaris systems running SunOS, etc.

I collect many different computers and play with all of them occasionally. I have a friend of mine 10 miles away in my City that owns a DEC VAX11/80-5 and I help him maintain it occasionally.

I host virtual machines at home for friends and family that run 20 different versions of Linux and Windows 2008 server, Windows 7, Windows 10, and Windows 11 VM's.

[PopinFRESH]

Escrito originalmente por Ontrix_Kitsune:

Escrito originalmente por A&A:

Also I wonder when you became so interested in other operating systems and not just Windows 10/11?

I own many computers that operate almost every operating system that has ever been released and some beta versions in testing machines that were never released to the public. MS-DOS & PC-DOS, Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, 2000, 2003-server, Linux Redhat, Debian, Ubuntu, MintOS, I own one of every generation of Apple computers from the Apple II through newer apple computers with the M1 chips, I own a functional partial mainframe system in the basement that runs UNIX and another that runs IBM Z/OS. I own multiple Solaris systems running SunOS, etc.

I collect many different computers and play with all of them occasionally. I have a friend of mine 10 miles away in my City that owns a DEC VAX11/80-5 and I help him maintain it occasionally.

I host virtual machines at home for friends and family that run 20 different versions of Linux and Windows 2008 server, Windows 7, Windows 10, and Windows 11 VM's.

Press X to Doubt

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Escrito originalmente por PopinFRESH:

Press X to Doubt

Gain a few years and learn to earn a little money. Some people collect obscure baseball cards, I collect obscure computers and play with obscure operating systems for fun.

The only OS I don't have running on a computer (and want to own some day) is NeXTSTEP.

EDIT: Oh and if you want unreleased beta versions of OS's then contribute to the BetaArchives forums for a few months to get access to their file server.

[A&A]

lol
DEC VAX11/80-5
What kind of AI generated crap model is that?
Not only that, but with these hard drives that come are so unreliable. What about the other components? No need to talk.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Escrito originalmente por A&A:

lol
DEC VAX11/80-5
What kind of AI generated crap model is that?

One of the early mainframe computers.

You're probably too young to know what a mainframe is. Maybe try reading about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX-11

[wesnef]

Escrito originalmente por Faiyez:

Will you play Witcher 4 or GTA 6 if they force ray tracing?

Didn't want to play those to start with, so. . .

But no, if a game absolutely *required* RT, I wouldn't get it. I've yet to spend more than $275 for a GPU, and no specific game is going to get me to double+ that.

But I can't see any "big" game doing this in the first place. Big games have Big budgets. Which requires Big sales. Which requires the basic system requirements to be reachable for a large % of gamers.