When Is Liquid Cooling necessary In PC Builds?

[☢No Flex]

Nure if I should spend the $80 on liquid cooling or just go with a good fan?

[FluffyPinkDecoyBunny]

My old setup:

case = CoolerMaster Cosmos 1000
CPU = Phenom II x4 940
heatsink = Evo 212+ (even tried the CoolerMaster V8, had same results as the Evo 212+)
OC = 3.6 (stock is 3.0) with voltage of 1.525
Max Temp under stress (Prim95) = 60C

I couldn't get anymore out of the Phenom II with my hardware, all the tinkering didn't make it run stable over 3.6 with the Evo 212+. I ended up coming across a really good deal on a Corsair H50 (only about $27 after taxes, usually it's $60+ after taxes) so I figured I would try it out.

case = CoolerMaster Cosmos 1000
CPU = Phenom II x4 940
heatsink = Corsair H50
OC = 3.71 (stock is 3.0) with voltage of 1.5125
max Temp under stress (Prim95) = 58C

I've seen comparisons of the Evo 212+ and the H50, the Evo genereally did just as well or better over the bottom of the barrel AIO liquid cooler I was using. In my case, the Cosmos 1000 wasn't built with the best air flow, which limited the ability of the Evo 212+. My case was better off running the H50, it allowed better cooling.

Bottom line is, if you have good cooling (air flow) in your case, a decent air cooler should work well for overclocking. If you want to OC as much as possible, a high end AIO liquid cooler/closed loop is the way to go.

[Rove]

Escrito originalmente por SyPTo:

Escrito originalmente por Rove:

Heatpipes are evaporative cooling. The "high pressure" area is near the CPU where it is hot, the "low pressure" are is in the part of the pipe in the cooling fins where the pipe becomes much cooler than the part near the CPU thus allowing the evaporated liquid to re-condense. Remember your own foggy breath on a room temperature mirror? The "high pressure" area is your warm lungs which are hotter than room temperature, the "low pressure" area is the mirror which is at room temperature. The heatpipes additionally have wicking material all along their sides to bring the condensed fluid back to the hot area.

Refrigerators need electricity and 2 seperate high and low pressure systems artifically created because they are trying to cooling things to temperatures BELOW ambient room temperature. If you wanted a refrigerator / cooler for cooling hot objects back down to room temperature you could make a completely passive system since the energy input would come from the hot object. To cool something below ambient requires a active system.

i wasn't going to respond but rove...seriously..pickup a college physics book.

there is no high pressure or low pressure in a heat pipe.. also the whole lung /air / mirror example is null and void , because this is just an example of heat transfer and has NOTHING to do with pressures, if you make the room the same temp as your body , your breath wouldn't fog up the mirror...

sorry but an refrdgerator or a/c system does not have artificiial pressure sides because it has to cool BELOW room temp...thats nonsense...what about a heat pump ? where the flow get's reversed to create heat inside a home ? even if the outside tempertaure is COLDER then the ambient inside temperature the system can still draw heat from the outside air and make the home warmer..it's a transfer of heat , you either expell heat outside or inside , it just depends again this has nothing to do with the reason you stated but more with the difference between a gas and a liquid coolant.

AGAIN , you are trying to compare a gas with a liquid , both have total opposite reactions with respect to cooling and thermal / pressures.

Heatpipes are partially filled with a liquid , most of the times water as is has a low boiling point compared to other LIQUIID coolants, why is this usefull ? , well if you pull a vacuum on the heatpipe partially filled with water it will lower the boiliing point (temp) of the water , you can get water to boil at 50 degrees... when it boils it forms steam , wich travels up the pipe and get's cooled back down to below the boiling point , wereas the wicks transfer is back to the bottom of the pipe , now the wicks are needed because if you wouldn't you would have problems because as the steam drops in temp and comes back down the rising steam would heat it back up and part of the condensed water would never reach the bottom. , you will get whats used in the oild production as a reflux column ...

now why is there no high pressure ?...because as i said , pressure on a liquid changes the boiling point of the liquid , high pressures will make water boil at a higher temps.

now why can't they use pressured gas in a heat pipe ?... because you would need an artificially made high/low pressure system to make it work... gas reacts differently then liquids,

Wow you got the totally wrong idea from what I said.

BY high-pressure and low-pressure I was talking like in weather systems. High-pressure being "sunny day" and low-pressure being "rainy day". Low-pressure (aka cold) makes the heatpipe coolant condense, high-pressure (aka heat) makes it evaporate. I know there is no separate chambers in the heatpipes but as in a weather system high and low pressure can occur without containment. You can have high-pressure weather followed by low-pressure weather without a divider between the two except for temperature difference. Same in the heatpipe. That's all I was saying.

[_I_]

pressure inside the heatpipes is the same for liquid/gas

heat evaporates the liquid, which is replaced by more liquid, and cooled at the radiator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vk5B6Gga10

pressure has nothing to do with the moving liquid/gas
its transfered by wicking

[Rove]

Right, hot=high pressure, cold=low pressure. Wicking transfers the cold stuff back to where it gets hot.

You heat something it exands thus creating higher pressure. You cool something and it shrinks, thus creating lower pressure.

[rotNdude]

The vapour pressure over the hot liquid working fluid at the hot end of the pipe is higher than the equilibrium vapour pressure over the condensing working fluid at the cooler end of the pipe, and this pressure difference drives a rapid mass transfer to the condensing end where the excess vapour condenses, releases its latent heat, and warms the cool end of the pipe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe

I consider off the shelf water coolers to be about equal to good air coolers. You get a custom water cooler for many reasons. Higher overclocks, less noise and lower temperatures under load. There has always been the 'I'm cool' (no pun intended) factor.

[em_t_hed]

bruh... stop saying pick up a college physics book if you're gonna end your tl;dr junk with 'gas reacts differently then liquids.'

I'm gonna quote a thermodynamics book for you.

"The densities of liquids are often considered incompressible because they don't change a lot with temperature and pressure. However, densities of gases vary quite a bit with both temperature and pressure."

A few paragraphs later.

"The specific gravity of water at room temperature is around 1.0, but because density can change with temperature and pressure, even for liquids, the specific gravity of water can vary a little bit depending on the conditions. For example, when water is at 100 degrees Celsius, its density is 958 kilograms per cubic meter. So at 100 degrees Celsius, the specific gravity of water is 0.958. If a material or substance has a specific gravity less than 1.0, it will float in water. When the specific gravity is grater than 1.0, a material will sink in water."

So in essence, those 2 paragraphs are saying both liquids and gases react the same to temperature and pressure. Not to mention that they're both fluids.

Water can float on itself given the right conditions!!!

Pauken, Michael. Thermodynamics for Dummies. 21-22. Hoboken, NJ: Wiley Publishing Inc, 2011.

Escrito originalmente por SyPTo:

Escrito originalmente por Rove:

Heatpipes are evaporative cooling. The "high pressure" area is near the CPU where it is hot, the "low pressure" are is in the part of the pipe in the cooling fins where the pipe becomes much cooler than the part near the CPU thus allowing the evaporated liquid to re-condense. Remember your own foggy breath on a room temperature mirror? The "high pressure" area is your warm lungs which are hotter than room temperature, the "low pressure" area is the mirror which is at room temperature. The heatpipes additionally have wicking material all along their sides to bring the condensed fluid back to the hot area.

Refrigerators need electricity and 2 seperate high and low pressure systems artifically created because they are trying to cooling things to temperatures BELOW ambient room temperature. If you wanted a refrigerator / cooler for cooling hot objects back down to room temperature you could make a completely passive system since the energy input would come from the hot object. To cool something below ambient requires a active system.

i wasn't going to respond but rove...seriously..pickup a college physics book.

there is no high pressure or low pressure in a heat pipe.. also the whole lung /air / mirror example is null and void , because this is just an example of heat transfer and has NOTHING to do with pressures, if you make the room the same temp as your body , your breath wouldn't fog up the mirror...

sorry but an refrdgerator or a/c system does not have artificiial pressure sides because it has to cool BELOW room temp...thats nonsense...what about a heat pump ? where the flow get's reversed to create heat inside a home ? even if the outside tempertaure is COLDER then the ambient inside temperature the system can still draw heat from the outside air and make the home warmer..it's a transfer of heat , you either expell heat outside or inside , it just depends again this has nothing to do with the reason you stated but more with the difference between a gas and a liquid coolant.

AGAIN , you are trying to compare a gas with a liquid , both have total opposite reactions with respect to cooling and thermal / pressures.

Heatpipes are partially filled with a liquid , most of the times water as is has a low boiling point compared to other LIQUIID coolants, why is this usefull ? , well if you pull a vacuum on the heatpipe partially filled with water it will lower the boiliing point (temp) of the water , you can get water to boil at 50 degrees... when it boils it forms steam , wich travels up the pipe and get's cooled back down to below the boiling point , wereas the wicks transfer is back to the bottom of the pipe , now the wicks are needed because if you wouldn't you would have problems because as the steam drops in temp and comes back down the rising steam would heat it back up and part of the condensed water would never reach the bottom. , you will get whats used in the oild production as a reflux column ...

now why is there no high pressure ?...because as i said , pressure on a liquid changes the boiling point of the liquid , high pressures will make water boil at a higher temps.

now why can't they use pressured gas in a heat pipe ?... because you would need an artificially made high/low pressure system to make it work... gas reacts differently then liquids,

I'm gonna quote another book. You're not gonna like this one.

"A Water 'Smokestack'

Needed: A jar with a metal screw top, ink or food color, water in a large tank or bucket, hot water in the jar.
Do This: Punch a hole in the metal top of the jar with a nail. Add coloring to the water in the jar. Hold a finger over the hole and place the jar into the tank of water. Take away the finger, and a stream of colored water rises like smoke from a smokestack.
Here's Why: The hot water is lighter in weight than the cold water in the tank, so it tends to rise as cold water takes its place in the jar. Try it with two holes in the jar top. The 'smoke' should rise faster because a convection current will be set up in the liquid in the jar."

Brown, Robert J. 200 Illustrated Science Experiments for Children. 28. Blue Ridge Summit, PA: TAB BOOKS Inc, 1987

amazing world of youtube: hot radiator uncapping

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC22iwYfuJ8

[Wampum Biskit]

Escrito originalmente por em_t_hed:

bruh... stop saying pick up a college physics book if you're gonna end your tl;dr junk with 'gas reacts differently then liquids.'

I'm gonna quote a thermodynamics book for you.

"The densities of liquids are often considered incompressible because they don't change a lot with temperature and pressure. However, densities of gases vary quite a bit with both temperature and pressure."

A few paragraphs later.

bruh ?...

so how exactly is that the same ?

that btw talks only about density changes occuring with pressures/heating/cooling.

it still does not show (compressed)gasses and liquids behaving the same way , if they would behave the same way you can just as easily fill an A/C with water , it would cause alot less problems then a gas thats compressed to over 250psi...

find the area where it shows you the difference in applications of a liquid in a cooling system VS a compressed gas being used as a coolant.


and why wouldn't i like the smoke stack ?... i think in my first post i mentioned natural convection , when the first water cooled engines came along they didn't have a waterpumps but solely relied on the natural convection of the system to cool the engine... waterpumps were later added to make the whole system more efficient.

although this is NOT how a heatpipe works , as it's only filled partially with a coolant..

[em_t_hed]

you are making me laugh so hard right now!!!! keep it coming BRUH!!

STEAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oEMQ8D0EZw
LIQUID
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC22iwYfuJ8


your inane line of questioning completely disregarding everything on the molecular level!!!

if you really want to talk, then lets discuss cool air vs warm air for combustion engines... again about DENSITIES.

Lets talk about the OCEANS and the LAYERS it has due to DENSITES and TEMPERATURES!!!

GAS and LIQUID respectively!!! ACTING IN THE SAME FASHION TOWARDS TEMPS!!!

you want to try and localize the situation and pull something out your butt saying these FLUIDS!!! don't react the same way.

get some comprehension with your physics books you claim to have read yourself

Escrito originalmente por SyPTo:

Escrito originalmente por em_t_hed:

bruh... stop saying pick up a college physics book if you're gonna end your tl;dr junk with 'gas reacts differently then liquids.'

I'm gonna quote a thermodynamics book for you.

"The densities of liquids are often considered incompressible because they don't change a lot with temperature and pressure. However, densities of gases vary quite a bit with both temperature and pressure."

A few paragraphs later.

bruh ?...

so how exactly is that the same ?

that btw talks only about density changes occuring with pressures/heating/cooling.

it still does not show (compressed)gasses and liquids behaving the same way , if they would behave the same way you can just as easily fill an A/C with water , it would cause alot less problems then a gas thats compressed to over 250psi...

find the area where it shows you the difference in applications of a liquid in a cooling system VS a compressed gas being used as a coolant.


and why wouldn't i like the smoke stack ?... i think in my first post i mentioned natural convection , when the first water cooled engines came along they didn't have a waterpumps but solely relied on the natural convection of the system to cool the engine... waterpumps were later added to make the whole system more efficient.

although this is NOT how a heatpipe works , as it's only filled partially with a coolant..

What is STEAM? A saturated VAPOR.

What is a VAPOR? A substance in its gas phase.

[_I_]

steam is a vaporized liquid, nothing to do with pressure

[rotNdude]

This thread has gone way off topic.

OP, you post your specs and temperatures in a new thread and we'll provide advice.