Miraklum 3 października 2014 o 20:38
What would you guys change in this system next?
Well I am saving money for next year by christmas and I would like opinions. I use a regular HDD 500G because the other one died. My budget will be somewhere in between 300-600.

If you even consider its not worth it and maybe even wait longer, just say so.

I use my computer for gaming and I play a lot of RTS, Shooters and Rpgs

- Case: NOX Coolbay TX
- CPU: Amd Phenom II X6 1055T 3.02GHz
- Mainboard: Sapphire Tech PC-AM3RS890G
- RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600MHz 2x4GB
- Graphics Card: Asus HD7870 Series
- PSU: Corsair AX760 - 80 PLUS Platinum
Ostatnio edytowany przez: Miraklum; 3 października 2014 o 21:44
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Rove 3 października 2014 o 21:37 
EDIT: it would also help if you copied your PC stats from your profile to this post.

I think your PC is already pretty good, in fact great for gaming. Now of course you could upgrade it and your old parts are worth upgrading with BUT as far as I know you currently should not need to upgrade.

Still if you want a upgrade I would upgrade the graphics, the RAM and possibly the motherboard. I don't think you need any upgrade though. Have you had a problem?

You could get a second HD 7870 or R9 270X (same card, new model, crossfire should work) and crossfire them together. Or a new R9 290 or GTX 970 though personally I recommend the second R9 270X or single R9 290 for gaming above the GTX 970. However the GTX 970 is very very power efficient (like will save you over 100w maximum use) and better than a single HD 7870. It also has a really high pixel fillrate if you are interested in video editing or very high resolution.

Also adding in either another 8GB (2*4GB) or 16GB (2*8GB) of RAM would round out your system pretty nicely. Be aware your current motherboard only supports up to 16GB so to add another 16GB (total 24GB) you'd need a new motherboard. It would make more RAM available to be shared with the graphics card so you could have more video RAM. Of course the CPU would also be able to use more. You could do things like make a RAM drive out of your spare RAM. Additionally I found that going from 2 sticks to 4 sticks improved my RAM WEI performance score significantly even when using 4 sticks @ 12GB (2*4GB+2*2GB)running DDR3-1333 vs 2 sticks @ 16GB (2*8GB) running DDR3-1866 or DDR3-1600. So even adding in another 4GB (2*2GB) of RAM will improve your capacity and should also be considered for the potential performance improvement. Though I do feel that 8GB or even 16GB would be a better target for upgrade since it will fill all your spare RAM slots and you won't be able to upgrade again without throwing out old sticks. When upgrading RAM make sure that you match the sticks you currently have. The new add-in sticks ideally should be the same speed, voltage & timings. Though your system may be able to handle up to 2 separate sets depending on your motherboard and some might even handle 4 types with a 3rd part memory controller or software adjustment. It is better to assume it might not work (unless you've gone into you BIOS and seen that it will) and to purchase the same types for all sticks. Same brand is often a easy way to help match up all these things but it is not required and it is also not a certain match unless it's same exact model number.

The motherboard you have right now is very nice. For me (right now) there would be no real reason (other than lust for new technology & bragging rights) to upgrade this or any other part of your PC. However your needs might be different than mine. If you decided to upgrade to another HD 7870 or R9 270X for crossfire and also wanted to add +16GB of RAM for a total of 24GB then you would benefit from a new motherboard. Your current board only supports up to 16GB total. So to get 24GB you'd either need to see if they had added un-official support for more RAM and 8GB sticks or get a new motherboard and you might have to get the new motherboard anyways. The reason I even bother speculating they may have added unofficial support for RAM above 16GB is because of WIndows 8 which supports 128GB of RAM in the home version while Windows 7 only supported 16GB and needed to be Windows 7 Professional to support more. SO they may have quoted 16GB maximum because of WIndows 7 while their hardware (with Windows 8 or Linux) could actually support more. Also your motherboard currently does support Crossfire with two PCIe x16 version 2 slots running at x8 mode. For a double HD 7870 or R9 270X/HD 7870 Crossfire these should run at maximum performance or so close you don't know the difference. However with a newer 990FX motherboard advertising 32GB or even 64GB RAM support you could also get two PCIe x16 slots that would run full x16 mode each when using Crossfire. The difference as I mentioned would probably be about 1% or less, not something you would notice.

All this said and done I think it's much-ado-about-nothing because for regular gaming you have already got a very nice system and should not need a upgrade.

If it was mine I'd get more RAM now, either 8GB (2*4GB) or if I could search on the internet to see if someo0ne had been able to make this motherboard support more than 16GB then I'd get +16GB (2*8GB) for total 24GB. The reason I say this is I have run into situations which have used at least 16GB of RAM. Planetary Annihilation (game) for example can.

Also I'd keep my eye out for a GPU upgrade, maybe a cheap used HD 7870 or a R9 270X on sale or something. Don't buy unless it's a really good deal or you really actually need more performance right now though cause your system is already great.

If you are worried about your CPU at all I advise "don't be". It's still a good CPU at stock speeds. Also it's a good CPU for overclocking, but I advise you not to do that cause it's still good as-is for now and no need to risk breaking it or wearing it out faster. If and when you ever overclock (don't let anyone else pressure you to) make sure you get a good 3rd party performance CPU cooler to manage heat & that you have good case fans. Also it will fit a AM3+ motherboard if you want to upgrade to one, but again you certainly don't need to.

You got a PC now better than PS4 or XB1 consoles by a long shot. Other than a RAM upgrade (even 4GB=2*2GB, but then no room for more) I advise you to save until next console generation unless you have some special immediate needs right now.
Ostatnio edytowany przez: Rove; 3 października 2014 o 21:41
Miraklum 3 października 2014 o 21:41 
The only prob I have is with RTS games like Rome 2 where my cpu lacks the fiber for it, but apart from that I can can max all games I have. The only thing I would buy right now maybe an SSD if being worth it, I never had one and do not know if it is worth it. Oh and I do have already a Hyper TX3 Evo for cooling and case is a Nox Coolbay TX. Running W7 64b the only thing is boot time...its 2 minutes
Ostatnio edytowany przez: Miraklum; 3 października 2014 o 21:43
chiefputsa☒lag 3 października 2014 o 22:01 
nice gaming computer.

save now for a complete build overhaul (new system based on latest parts). only buy a new computer system when the games you play are no longer playable in your current system.
Miraklum 3 października 2014 o 22:03 
well it seems I undervalued my system :D Thanks guys
Rove 3 października 2014 o 22:09 
Don't tell me Rome II does all the AI pathing calculations on the CPU or something?

That's stupid programming and not your fault. You could probably overclock your CPU a lot with a good 3rd party performance cooler, but is it worth risking damage over a game that has been poorly programmed to not use your graphics card properly?

You could buy another RTS instead for the $30~ that you'd spend on a performance cooler and several for the price of a new CPU. Planetary Annihilation is one I recommend as new & fun & CPU friendly. It does hog RAM though so 8GB can be minimum for a demanding user. The battles in this game can be massive, across a whole solar system with 1000's of units, defensive and offensive structures. Warhammer 40K Dawn of War 2: Retribution is also one of my favorites & easy to run. It's more about management of a limited number of units & laning (in multiplayer at least) than it is about base building or massive battles though.

GPUs are great at parellel problems like pathing all of the individuals in a army unit. I can see how that might start being difficult for any CPU though which are about serial power.

SSD is nice like sprinkles on cake, and like that you don't need it to eat cake. Gaming consoles are still using HDD. However having a small 120 to 256GB SSD for your OS and drivers is a nice thing. For example when your system has run out of RAM running a program that needs more than it has it will then go to the HDD or SSD for pagefile / swap space to use like virtual RAM. Unfortunately HDD is very slow to the point where you will think your computer has frozen (even if it's just decided to spend several days working instead) and the only thing you can do is shut it down with the power button and restart. SSD meanwhile is still very slow compared to RAM but it is generally fast enough to at least let you do something like ctrl+alt+del and end task of the program using so much RAM. Also it can swap drivers & saved game files in and out of RAM faster than a HDD could which is why I say you should use it for your OS and drivers (and saved games which usually go on the OS drive by default) but still keep all your games on a storage HDD.

SSD is a good thing to have and ya sure you could spend some money on one as a treat for yourself. Expect that you may have snappier response times & faster loads. It won't improve your framerates or detail settings though as far as I know.

Also it may help prevent your computer getting "slow" with age due to HDD speed being a bottleneck to everything else for day to day tasks. HDDs get faster every generation just like everything else. Once the minimum HDD speed a program needs rises it can be a big lag to be running slower than that speed.

I personally have a 256GB SSD which I use only for Windows & drivers and try and keep clean of anything else. All my games go on a HDD along with all other media. So far the main advantage seems to be a higher WEI score but I'm still glad I got one.
Ostatnio edytowany przez: Rove; 3 października 2014 o 22:14
Miraklum 3 października 2014 o 22:13 
Początkowo opublikowane przez Rove:
Don't tell me Rome II does all the AI pathing calculations on the CPU or something?

That's stupid programming and not your fault. You could probably overclock your CPU a lotwitha good 3rd party performance cooler, but is it worth risking damage over a game that has been poorly programmed to not use your graphics card properly?

You could buy another RTS instead for the $30~ that you'd spend on a performance cooler and several for the price of a new CPU. Planetary Annihilation is one I recommend as new & fun & CPU friendly. It does hog RAM though so 8GB can be minimum for a demanding user. Warhammer 40K Dawn of War 2: Retribution is also one of my favorites & easy to run.

GPUs are great at parellel problems like pathing all of the individuals in a army unit. I can see how that might start being difficult for any CPU though which are about serial power.

SSD is nice like sprinkles on cake, and like that you don't need it to eat cake. Gaming consoles are still using HDD. However having a small 120 to 256GB SSD for your OS and drivers is a nice thing. For example when your system has run out of RAM running a program that needs more than it has it will then go to the HDD or SSD for pagefile / swap space to use like virtual RAM. Unfortunately HDD is very slow to the point where you will think your computer has frozen (even if it's just decided to spend several days working instead) and the only thing you can do is shut it down with the power button and restart. SSD meanwhile is still very slow compared to RAM but it is generally fast enough to at least let you do something like ctrl+alt+del and end task of the program using so much RAM. Also it can swap drivers & saved game files in and out of RAM faster than a HDD could which is why I say you should use it for your OS and drivers (and saved games which usually go on the OS drive by default) but still keep all your games on a storage HDD.

SSD is a good thing to have and ya sure you could spend some money on one as a treat for yourself. Expect that you may have snappier response times & faster loads. It won't improve your framerates or detail settings though as far as I know.

I personally have a 256GB SSD which I use only for Windows & drivers and try and keep clean of anything else. All my games go on a HDD along with all other media.

Thats what I was thinking. SSD for W7 and drivers and the actual HDD for other stuff. And yeah Rome 2 is pretty bad, Shogun 2 looks much better on my build. But just one more thing, how can I use my ram to increase my memory on my gpu and what will it do? Make my games faster or look better?
Rove 3 października 2014 o 22:54 
It should already be happening automatically. Windows should be sharing about 1/2 of your RAM (in a system 8GB or more) to your graphics card as shared RAM that either CPU or GPU can use. To see your total video memory run DXdiag and check the display tab.

There also does exist (I think) a manual way to set this but it's burried deep in one of Windows more difficult to access control suites that I can't even find from Control Panel. I used to know how but have since forgotten. It is there somewhere for manual adjustment though.

Anyways when I run DXdiag and check the display tab it tells me I have 18139MB approx. graphics (or display) memory or 18GB approximately. Now I only have a 2GB HD 6950, similar to your 2GB HD 7870, but I also have 32GB of RAM. 16GB of it is shared to my GPU. Total video memory = 18GB. WEI also used to show this, more precisely also. It used to detail that the HD 6900 series card (it didn't specifically call it HD 6950) had 2GB of "dedicated" memory and 16GB of "shared system" memory. Now MIcrosoft has removed the GUI for WEI in Windows 8.1 currently. Not sure if it's permanent or what but it's gone except if you want to use it via commandline. Then you can still find it with the proper codes.

Unfortunately DXdiag only tells the total graphics / video / display memory (all different words for the same thing) and not how much is onboard the card & how much is shared system RAM nor what speeds each runs at effectively for the GPU's use.

Your GPU manufacturer should list your GPU RAM speed. As for how fast system RAM runs when used by the GPU? Well that seems somewhat open to speculation but is probably either: 1) your PCIe bandwidth which may not actually be a limiting factor since PCIe is only the protocol between CPU & GPU and not between GPU & RAM OR; 2) your RAM speed multiplied by number of sticks up to two. So either RAM speed * 1 with 1 stick or * 2 with 2 sticks. This is due to that your CPU has a dual channel memory controller OR; 3) Your RAM speed multiplied by number of sticks up to 4, just like option 2 except with 4 as the limit instead of 2. This is because your GPU has a 4 channel memory controller for it's own internal memory and assuming that it can also use that to directly acess the RAM in your PC then it can acess up to 4 sticks at once in quad-channel and achieve up to 4 times effective bandwidth.

If that last option 3 were true it could mean that with 4 sticks of DDR3-1600 (of any size) for your GPU to use then your system RAM would actually be faster than your HD 7870's onboard GPU RAM *except* for the fact that the HD 7870 has a 256bit memory bus for it's own internal RAM while meanwhile DDR3-1600 in your PC is only 64bit. SO the HD 7870 RAM gets a extra 4 times more bandwidth from the wider bus.

It goes like this: GDDR5-1200 MT/s * 4 channels * 4 times wider bus than DDR3 @ 256bits * 8MB per MT/s = 153,600MB per second bandwidth or about 153.6 GB/s.

Meanwhile if option 3 were true for regular system RAM then your GPU would be able to use 4 sticks of DDR3-1600 like: DDR3-1600 MT/s * 4 channels * 1 regular 64bit bus * 8MB per MT/s = 51200MB per second or about 51.2 GB/s.
adrianSSK 4 października 2014 o 1:54 
nothing .
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