L.o.D. Dec 25, 2024 @ 10:50am
In Ear Monitors for gaming
So I'll be testing a pair of these this weekend, but I am curious to know if a DAC is needed or not?
Gadgetrytech claims the Creative G8 is the king. What say you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-p5rU-0gqA&t=59s
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Showing 1-15 of 31 comments
Shodan Dec 25, 2024 @ 11:31am 
Don't listen to those paid advertisers on YouTube. A DAC is essential to be able to hear any kind of sound to begin with.

If you hear some kind of noise or interference, you could get an external DAC, otherwise no point as it's 2024. As for amplifiers, if you get enough volume, then that's fine too because, once again, it's 2024. Amplifiers could only sound different if they're defective (or if you're using vacuum tubes), and if that was the case, believe me, you'd know it. If that's not the case and everything sounds normal overall (I repeat, you'd know if something was wrong), then you can safely forget about amplifiers and DACs.

I mean, DACs just convert 0s and 1s into analog signal and amplifiers just amplify that signal. This is as basic as technology gets in 2024 and it was perfected long ago, costs pretty much nothing and is as tiny as it gets.

Forget about this snake oil nonsense from degenerate "YouTubers", "influencers", random Reddit comments and what not, these are entirely pointless products which are still a thing because people fall for them, nothing more. Sadly, audio is still on the flat Earth conspiracy level even in 2024, like some other things like tea, especially when it comes to supposed health benefits.

Try how it sounds for yourself before spending money on crap you don't need.

I have the HD 600 which I plug directly into my PC. Tell this to any of those fancy-ass self-proclaimed "audiophiles" on the Internet and they'll say it's the worst heresy known to mankind. Well, guess what, it makes no difference whether it's the A/V receiver, a dedicated headphone amplifier, a cheap old Samsung tablet, a ThinkPad laptop, old PCs and so on. Of course, now they would pull the same old "golden ears" excuse, but that's complete nonsense and besides, I guarantee I have better and more trained hearing than those people.
Last edited by Shodan; Dec 25, 2024 @ 11:37am
L.o.D. Dec 25, 2024 @ 11:44am 
So you're saying a DAC would make no difference for warzone over using my gpu audio or the onboard audio?
I am also using ArtisWar's audio tune with my HyperX Cloud 2s.
AmaiAmai Dec 25, 2024 @ 12:33pm 
Originally posted by L.o.D.:
So you're saying a DAC would make no difference for warzone over using my gpu audio or the onboard audio?
I am also using ArtisWar's audio tune with my HyperX Cloud 2s.

They mean that you already use a DAC if you are listening to audio because a DAC is required to change your digital sound (stored files) into the sound you are hearing.

What external DACs claim to do is do it better than the solutions found on your phone or motherboard. Whether that is true or not is extremely subjective, especially since source audio will matter more than anything else and how "good" sound is produced is subjective.

If you use noise cancelling headphones or they are tuned bad, then that also matters and can cause issues.

Your personal ear anatomy can also determine whether or not the sound is "better" or not.

Since audio setups can never be ideal without spending lots of money on studio equipment (that also makes little difference if you are just playing back audio) it makes almost zero sense to spend so much.

Also, modern GPUs contain audio logic. One example is AMD's True Sound Next. The only issue is that game developers do not care to leverage it.

Lastly, if you can hear past the standard human range like me, then you might find amplifiers and DACs do nothing more but add more noise and toss it in the trash esp. the budget ones. You've been warned.
L.o.D. Dec 25, 2024 @ 12:56pm 
Out of all the googling I've done thus far on IEMs, it seems they use it with DACs and not internal card or onboard.
Have not seen any mention of a sound card at all.
Sigma957 Dec 25, 2024 @ 2:35pm 
In Ear Monitors are used by musicians. Not all but most that can afford them.
L.o.D. Dec 25, 2024 @ 2:59pm 
Originally posted by Sigma957:
In Ear Monitors are used by musicians. Not all but most that can afford them.

They're not just for musicians anymore. If you google around, you will find many are using them. And many are affordable. I'll be trying out the KZ ZSN Pro X this weekend.
_I_ Dec 25, 2024 @ 3:12pm 
not sure how to stuff a monitor in your ear, but you can try if you want
Shodan Dec 26, 2024 @ 9:32am 
Originally posted by L.o.D.:
So you're saying a DAC would make no difference for warzone over using my gpu audio or the onboard audio?
I am also using ArtisWar's audio tune with my HyperX Cloud 2s.

I'm just saying you should first try plugging it directly into your PC and see how that works for yourself because no one including myself can tell you if it will be fine or not.

My point is, don't spend extra money unless you have to, especially since you most likely don't have to as the Internet exaggerates some issues with a ton of snake oil involved, but I can't be 100% sure, no one can.

So, only if you hear noise like interference from PC components, constant hissing, that kind of stuff, then an external DAC can help. Otherwise, it's an entirely pointless waste of money, space, time and effort. When I say an external DAC can help, that doesn't mean it's an upgrade in sound quality as if you suddenly got better headphones. No, it's just that the annoying background noise on top of the exact same sound quality would be eliminated, nothing more or less.

Similarly, if your amplifier is inadequate, you're also not missing out on sound quality, just volume. This is a bit tricky because we perceive higher volume as better which might lead people to believe things like amplifiers adding bass to headphones, but in reality, nothing is added, it's just that bass requires higher volume to be heard and felt properly, unlike say listening to a a news anchor talking which works perfectly at the faintest volumes. Same with "details", of course they won't be as loud as the "main" stuff, so if the main stuff is already quiet, then the details will be too quiet to be audible. That doesn't mean one amplifier is "more detailed" than the other, it's simply higher volume.
Last edited by Shodan; Dec 26, 2024 @ 9:48am
L.o.D. Dec 26, 2024 @ 10:45am 
Originally posted by Shodan:
I'm just saying you should first try plugging it directly into your PC and see how that works for yourself because no one including myself can tell you if it will be fine or not.

I have directly connected my HyperX Cloud 2s to the motherboard onboard audio. I hated it. No direction audio in warzone at all.

Originally posted by Shodan:
My point is, don't spend extra money unless you have to, especially since you most likely don't have to as the Internet exaggerates some issues with a ton of snake oil involved, but I can't be 100% sure, no one can.

Considering the amount of reports/videos/complaints about warzone's audio, I don't think it's exaggerated.


Originally posted by Shodan:
Similarly, if your amplifier is inadequate, you're also not missing out on sound quality, just volume. This is a bit tricky because we perceive higher volume as better which might lead people to believe things like amplifiers adding bass to headphones, but in reality, nothing is added, it's just that bass requires higher volume to be heard and felt properly, unlike say listening to a a news anchor talking which works perfectly at the faintest volumes. Same with "details", of course they won't be as loud as the "main" stuff, so if the main stuff is already quiet, then the details will be too quiet to be audible. That doesn't mean one amplifier is "more detailed" than the other, it's simply higher volume.

My motherboard has the Realtek ALC1220 7.1 CH HD Audio Codec, Nahimic Audio which I find to be crap sounding. I tried my HyperX Cloud 2s directly connected to it and used the Nahimic software and found it to be worse than normal warzone audio and worse than ArtisWar's audio tune. The nahimic surround sound and sound tracker don't seem to work.

I need something that helps get better surround than what I have now.
Shodan Dec 26, 2024 @ 12:23pm 
Originally posted by L.o.D.:
Originally posted by Shodan:
I'm just saying you should first try plugging it directly into your PC and see how that works for yourself because no one including myself can tell you if it will be fine or not.

I have directly connected my HyperX Cloud 2s to the motherboard onboard audio. I hated it. No direction audio in warzone at all.

Originally posted by Shodan:
My point is, don't spend extra money unless you have to, especially since you most likely don't have to as the Internet exaggerates some issues with a ton of snake oil involved, but I can't be 100% sure, no one can.

Considering the amount of reports/videos/complaints about warzone's audio, I don't think it's exaggerated.


Originally posted by Shodan:
Similarly, if your amplifier is inadequate, you're also not missing out on sound quality, just volume. This is a bit tricky because we perceive higher volume as better which might lead people to believe things like amplifiers adding bass to headphones, but in reality, nothing is added, it's just that bass requires higher volume to be heard and felt properly, unlike say listening to a a news anchor talking which works perfectly at the faintest volumes. Same with "details", of course they won't be as loud as the "main" stuff, so if the main stuff is already quiet, then the details will be too quiet to be audible. That doesn't mean one amplifier is "more detailed" than the other, it's simply higher volume.

My motherboard has the Realtek ALC1220 7.1 CH HD Audio Codec, Nahimic Audio which I find to be crap sounding. I tried my HyperX Cloud 2s directly connected to it and used the Nahimic software and found it to be worse than normal warzone audio and worse than ArtisWar's audio tune. The nahimic surround sound and sound tracker don't seem to work.

I need something that helps get better surround than what I have now.

As for the first thing, sounds like whatever you're plugging your headphones into now simply applies EQ. Those headphones definitely don't sound like they have a flat frequency response, so no surprise you can get a significantly improved directional effect with EQ by restoring frequencies where this information is located. Generally, these cheap "gaming" and other mass market headphones have significantly boosted bass which completely drowns out everything else, like you covered speakers with a comforter and put them at the bottom of a well.

Here's an example of proper, reference headphones and typical cheap, mass market, "gaming" headphones:

https://sai.squig.link/?share=HD800S,Arctis_3

Second, I don't know what exactly people who play Warzone are complaining about, what kind of setups they use and what they expect from it. I play the game from time to time and everything sounds like it does in any other game, I can easily pinpoint enemies and it sounds great overall, no complaints. Still, if the game does have some kind of an audio issue, then that's on the game and no headphones, amplifiers, DACs and so on could fix that, if every other game and everything else you listen to doesn't have whichever problem Warzone has.

The Realtek audio codecs don't really matter unless you need some features like 7.1 surround that cheaper ones don't support. I have the ALC897 in my new PC and my 10 years old motherboard had the 1150, no audible difference between them whatsoever. It's more about the overall implementation than the Realtek codec alone. Still, like I said above, this should all be exactly the same these days unless something is extremely poorly made or outright defective.

Lastly, as for surround, you can only do so much without physical surround speakers properly positioned around you. I have great, reference headphones, so they can reproduce stereo images really accurately in games which is enough for me to be able to hear every little detail and pinpoint it with almost perfect accuracy (assuming the game is made well enough), but it's still just stereo at the end of the day. Some games have some "3D" options for headphones which always sound extremely weird and that's also stereo anyway, just completely messed up. I always avoid all such gimmicks like the plague. CS2 is my favorite example of this positional audio because it's genuine, genuinely well-made. It manages to maintain a perfectly normal and natural sound in every single way, yet the positional audio is still so good that it feels like I can almost measure just at how many degrees between behind-left and behind-center someone is coming from.

Oh and:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/16423272748740527/62CF2A16D1EC3F3C9BC09CEC3900DE6AF5DB6C1E/

This is what I applied for my cheap Logitech speakers which have a similar problem with bloated bass that just makes everything sound muffled and almost gives me a headache. Realtek Audio Panel, should come with the drivers or the motherboard software. While EQ is relative, try something like this as a starting point with your headphones plugged directly into the motherboard and all software processing you mentioned bypassed, just to "see" that this simple EQ achieves the exact same effect when it comes to overall clarity, easier positioning, easier to hear footsteps, more "details" and so on. In simple terms, if the footsteps (and other sounds) themselves can't be heard well enough, midrange. Treble for "details" and "distance", but be especially careful with that because it can easily become ear-piercing.
Last edited by Shodan; Dec 26, 2024 @ 12:42pm
L.o.D. Dec 26, 2024 @ 12:40pm 
What EQ are you using?
I currently use Equalizer APO with Peace.
Shodan Dec 26, 2024 @ 12:47pm 
Originally posted by L.o.D.:
What EQ are you using?
I currently use Equalizer APO with Peace.

Realtek Audio Panel. I don't remember the last time I touched these Logitech speakers, plus it's just cheap Logitech speakers anyway, so Realtek Audio Panel does the job for me. Comes with the drivers / motherboard software anyway. For headphones, no EQ since they're reference headphones and no room acoustics to factor in. Either way, you can use whatever, and Equalizer APO is indeed like "the" option when it comes to (advanced) EQ, I just don't really need it for my use case.
Last edited by Shodan; Dec 26, 2024 @ 12:48pm
L.o.D. Dec 26, 2024 @ 1:06pm 
Originally posted by Shodan:
Second, I don't know what exactly people who play Warzone are complaining about, what kind of setups they use and what they expect from it. I play the game from time to time and everything sounds like it does in any other game, I can easily pinpoint enemies and it sounds great overall, no complaints. Still, if the game does have some kind of an audio issue, then that's on the game and no headphones, amplifiers, DACs and so on could fix that, if every other game and everything else you listen to doesn't have whichever problem Warzone has.

The issue with warzone's audio is for example, there'd be someone landing 10 feet away from me on a tin roof and there's no sound from it. I had the train pass me and no sound from it.
Currently, when someone is parachuting overhead, there's nothing directional about it, it's just there making it harder to find them.

When I was using ArtisWar's tune for the last warzone, I could pinpoint everything, even boxes.
Now the new tune, is not up to snuff for me personally as the last tune was. While I can hear footsteps, I can't tell where they are coming from too well.
Sahelanthropus Dec 26, 2024 @ 1:19pm 
for what it's worth, my IEMs are sensitive and plugging them into anything onboard (PC's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ front panel jack, laptop's jack, ps vita's jack) i could pick up noise, likely interference from the other electronics. i had no problems with my other external DACs, the apple dongle and my xonar u7. YMMV obviously
L.o.D. Dec 26, 2024 @ 1:24pm 
Originally posted by Trout:
for what it's worth, my IEMs are sensitive and plugging them into anything onboard (PC's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ front panel jack, laptop's jack, ps vita's jack) i could pick up noise, likely interference from the other electronics. i had no problems with my other external DACs, the apple dongle and my xonar u7. YMMV obviously


I have a pair of these coming tomorrow.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08DNHTF69/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
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Date Posted: Dec 25, 2024 @ 10:50am
Posts: 32