Would Microsoft Be Better Off To Remove Gaming From Their OS

[TheTrippyHippie]

I think Windows OS would be better If they removed gaming from their OS and sold a Gamer's version based around their gaming ecosystem Xbox maybe?

Reserve Windows OS for Productivity, power users, business or people who require the services a Windows desktop computer has to offer.

This would make more sense than building an OS that's trying to be everything and most likely more productive with less issues and more secure.

If they done something similar to SteamOS3 for gamer's and kept gaming away from their windows desktop OS it would most likely have less issues.

You would have 1 OS that's dedicated to gaming with only the software installed that's needed to be a gaming PC, with a desktop that can do the basics, like bench marking, email web browsing, personalising layout etc

I think something along those lines would be better for gamer's and windows OS

You would then have an OS that's dedicated to an desktop environment but not used for gaming which is most likely more secure, better suited to business, power users or users that need the features windows OS has to offer.

[r.linder]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TheTrippyHippie:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von pasa:

Considering that gaming is the only good feature of W, why exactly would they consider to scrap exactly that?

And that is exactly my point Gaming is the best part of it.

If you mainly use your PC for gaming you don't need all the other crap even being apart of your OS.

You can remove almost all of that by installing Windows from the EU servers, from using a playbook like Atlas to gut the crap out and disable Windows updates, there's multiple ways to get rid of the things you don't want, you don't need to use Linux to circumvent it.

It's not the reason why I use it, it's because Linux works better for me than Windows did, at the cost of losing support for a lot of games, most of which involve anti-cheats. Used to play Rust a lot on Windows but it won't work on servers that use EAC on Linux, support for Wine/Proton was refused. So in those cases where games just don't work, you either have Windows on another drive, dual boot, or accept that going with purely Linux has consequences in regards to software support.

It's the same reason why a lot of people here won't use Linux, a lot of their games just don't work and they don't want to have to tinker, they want their games to work as soon as they hit play without having to change Steam settings at all.

Reason why games with ACs block Wine is because Linux can't be monitored in the same way that Windows can, the anti-cheat doesn't get root permissions on Linux, it runs as an unprivileged user, so it's easy for Linux users to bypass the AC and cheat if they wanted to. And since there's too few Linux users out there, it makes more sense to developers to just keep the toggle off rather than spend hours upon hours trying to patch it.

[TheTrippyHippie]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von r.linder:

Microsoft isn't going to do that, it's extremely unlikely as they tried to stop people from going to Linux before, they don't want competition.

All the more reason why Microsoft probably wants to buy Valve, what Valve is doing with Proton and SteamOS can be a perceived threat to Windows as the more people support Linux, the better general software support it's going to get, and eventually Windows will be replaceable for billions of users.

If anything, they'll do everything they're able to get away with to stop Linux.

I bet quite the opposite I think Microsoft will work with Valve and its SteamOS3 Microsoft is not stupid when it comes adverting risk

That way it works out better for both of them Microsoft games will work everywhere that is what they want and need to succed.

[r.linder]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TheTrippyHippie:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von r.linder:

Microsoft isn't going to do that, it's extremely unlikely as they tried to stop people from going to Linux before, they don't want competition.

All the more reason why Microsoft probably wants to buy Valve, what Valve is doing with Proton and SteamOS can be a perceived threat to Windows as the more people support Linux, the better general software support it's going to get, and eventually Windows will be replaceable for billions of users.

If anything, they'll do everything they're able to get away with to stop Linux.

I bet quite the opposite I think Microsoft will work with Valve and its SteamOS3 Microsoft is not stupid when it comes adverting risk

That way it works out better for both of them Microsoft games will work everywhere that is what they want and need to succed.

Your opinion doesn't change fact, and it's a fact that Microsoft wants everyone to use Windows, that's why they don't give a crap when people pirate it or choose not to activate Win10/11.

They made actual efforts to stop people from using Linux many years ago, over the years they've changed their tune and they use their own in-house developed distros but they still want the masses to be using Windows because they make money off of it, even if you don't pay for a license. That's why you're allowed to use it without one and why they don't care about piracy.

The difference is that nowadays it's much harder for Microsoft to get in the way of Linux, but that doesn't mean they won't try and haven't tried. They also own important resources like Github.

[TheTrippyHippie]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von r.linder:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TheTrippyHippie:

And that is exactly my point Gaming is the best part of it.

If you mainly use your PC for gaming you don't need all the other crap even being apart of your OS.

You can remove almost all of that by installing Windows from the EU servers, from using a playbook like Atlas to gut the crap out and disable Windows updates, there's multiple ways to get rid of the things you don't want, you don't need to use Linux to circumvent it.

It's not the reason why I use it, it's because Linux works better for me than Windows did, at the cost of losing support for a lot of games, most of which involve anti-cheats. Used to play Rust a lot on Windows but it won't work on servers that use EAC on Linux, support for Wine/Proton was refused. So in those cases where games just don't work, you either have Windows on another drive, dual boot, or accept that going with purely Linux has consequences in regards to software support.

It's the same reason why a lot of people here won't use Linux, a lot of their games just don't work and they don't want to have to tinker, they want their games to work as soon as they hit play without having to change Steam settings at all.

Reason why games with ACs block Wine is because Linux can't be monitored in the same way that Windows can, the anti-cheat doesn't get root permissions on Linux, it runs as an unprivileged user, so it's easy for Linux users to bypass the AC and cheat if they wanted to. And since there's too few Linux users out there, it makes more sense to developers to just keep the toggle off rather than spend hours upon hours trying to patch it.

SteamOS3 will all be running the same distro and kernel this could path the way for anticheat to start supporting SteamOS3 as they could make it work.

But I can't see other Linux versions distro branches kernel's or what ever getting support due to different builds they would have to cater for and most not worth it due to smaller user base that don't have a pedigree or market place for gaming like steam.

[r.linder]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TheTrippyHippie:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von r.linder:

You can remove almost all of that by installing Windows from the EU servers, from using a playbook like Atlas to gut the crap out and disable Windows updates, there's multiple ways to get rid of the things you don't want, you don't need to use Linux to circumvent it.

It's not the reason why I use it, it's because Linux works better for me than Windows did, at the cost of losing support for a lot of games, most of which involve anti-cheats. Used to play Rust a lot on Windows but it won't work on servers that use EAC on Linux, support for Wine/Proton was refused. So in those cases where games just don't work, you either have Windows on another drive, dual boot, or accept that going with purely Linux has consequences in regards to software support.

It's the same reason why a lot of people here won't use Linux, a lot of their games just don't work and they don't want to have to tinker, they want their games to work as soon as they hit play without having to change Steam settings at all.

Reason why games with ACs block Wine is because Linux can't be monitored in the same way that Windows can, the anti-cheat doesn't get root permissions on Linux, it runs as an unprivileged user, so it's easy for Linux users to bypass the AC and cheat if they wanted to. And since there's too few Linux users out there, it makes more sense to developers to just keep the toggle off rather than spend hours upon hours trying to patch it.

SteamOS3 will all be running the same distro and kernel this could path the way for anticheat to start supporting SteamOS3 as they could make it work.

But I can't see other Linux versions distro branches kernel's or what ever getting support due to different builds they would have to cater for and most not worth it due to smaller user base that don't have a pedigree or market place for gaming like steam.

SteamOS 3 is literally just Arch, and Valve is working closely with the people who manage Arch. Nothing is going to be unique to SteamOS, nothing it has now is actually unique to it, and Valve's contributions to the kernel affects all of Linux because anyone can take what they've done and apply it to other distros. That's already happened for things like Gamescope.

[TheTrippyHippie]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von r.linder:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TheTrippyHippie:

I bet quite the opposite I think Microsoft will work with Valve and its SteamOS3 Microsoft is not stupid when it comes adverting risk

That way it works out better for both of them Microsoft games will work everywhere that is what they want and need to succed.

Your opinion doesn't change fact, and it's a fact that Microsoft wants everyone to use Windows, that's why they don't give a crap when people pirate it or choose not to activate Win10/11.

They made actual efforts to stop people from using Linux many years ago, over the years they've changed their tune and they use their own in-house developed distros but they still want the masses to be using Windows because they make money off of it, even if you don't pay for a license. That's why you're allowed to use it without one and why they don't care about piracy.

The difference is that nowadays it's much harder for Microsoft to get in the way of Linux, but that doesn't mean they won't try and haven't tried. They also own important resources like Github.

Microsoft can no longer dictate on what OS people can choose and they know this will only expand over time and the long run because even if you cant see it yet the landscape is changing and they will adjust to it.

They also have massive investments in gaming studio's and getting all there games on as many devices as possible is quite high up on the top of list

Microsoft wont lose massive market share to steamOS3 or lose billions of user over night because of steamOS3 either.

They will how ever make more money supporting it.

[_I_]

removing it would not be 'good'

but it would be best if windows did nto even need game mode and would only do tasks you ask ti to, never running anything that is not 1000% necessary for the user in the background

[TheTrippyHippie]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von r.linder:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TheTrippyHippie:

SteamOS3 will all be running the same distro and kernel this could path the way for anticheat to start supporting SteamOS3 as they could make it work.

But I can't see other Linux versions distro branches kernel's or what ever getting support due to different builds they would have to cater for and most not worth it due to smaller user base that don't have a pedigree or market place for gaming like steam.

SteamOS 3 is literally just Arch, and Valve is working closely with the people who manage Arch. Nothing is going to be unique to SteamOS, nothing it has now is actually unique to it, and Valve's contributions to the kernel affects all of Linux because anyone can take what they've done and apply it to other distros. That's already happened for things like Gamescope.

You may have a better understanding of this than myself but I would of thought at least for the steam deck hardware being it's own custom device It will be easier for anticheat to work.


I am under the impression the reason Anti cheat does not work for Linux is because of the branching of distros and what kernal version they are based on and to top that off there is a stupid amount to choose from and not all support the same Linux software depending on the kernel that is used.

[r.linder]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TheTrippyHippie:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von r.linder:

SteamOS 3 is literally just Arch, and Valve is working closely with the people who manage Arch. Nothing is going to be unique to SteamOS, nothing it has now is actually unique to it, and Valve's contributions to the kernel affects all of Linux because anyone can take what they've done and apply it to other distros. That's already happened for things like Gamescope.

You may have a better understanding of this than myself but I would of thought at least for the steam deck hardware being it's own custom device It will be easier for anticheat to work.


I am under the impression the reason Anti cheat does not work for Linux is because of the branching of distros and what kernal version they are based on and to top that off there is a stupid amount to choose from and not all support the same Linux software depending on the kernel that is used.

Anti-cheats don't work properly on Linux because they don't have root permissions unless it's given root permissions in some manner, but because by default it runs as a userspace without any privileges, developers just block it because it's the "safer" and easier method of dealing with that.

Developers aren't going to build it around a single Linux distribution based on Arch, it doesn't work that way because it's free and open-source software, the GP-L licensing ensures that, and because it's easily possible to take permissions away from the anti-cheat anyway, they have to completely change their approach to anti-cheat software on Linux.

Due to the amount of work it would take to make an effective anti-cheat for Linux and the fact that there's so many different anti-cheats, it's just not feasible that every game with one is going to work on Linux, probably ever, because Linux isn't proprietary. It works for Windows because the user can't just easily dissect and do whatever they want with it, and even if they can, the anti-cheat has full permissions as what's effectively a rootkit and would detect attempts to circumvent it, it wouldn't be effective otherwise.

[TheTrippyHippie]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von r.linder:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von TheTrippyHippie:

You may have a better understanding of this than myself but I would of thought at least for the steam deck hardware being it's own custom device It will be easier for anticheat to work.


I am under the impression the reason Anti cheat does not work for Linux is because of the branching of distros and what kernal version they are based on and to top that off there is a stupid amount to choose from and not all support the same Linux software depending on the kernel that is used.

Anti-cheats don't work properly on Linux because they don't have root permissions unless it's given root permissions in some manner, but because by default it runs as a userspace without any privileges, developers just block it because it's the "safer" and easier method of dealing with that.

Developers aren't going to build it around a single Linux distribution based on Arch, it doesn't work that way because it's free and open-source software, the GP-L licensing ensures that, and because it's easily possible to take permissions away from the anti-cheat anyway, they have to completely change their approach to anti-cheat software on Linux.

ah ok thanks for giving me a better understanding of the issue.

[r.linder]

It's just easier that Linux users accept that such games with anti-cheats with developers that refuse to support Linux are never going to work on Linux. That's their decision, just like it's my decision not to buy or play any of their games, it's a sacrifice that some people don't want to make, but I have no problem doing that.

In games where you can make your own servers and manage ACs yourself like Rust, GTA V, etc. it's still feasible, you just have to deal with the cheaters that might show up.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

If you want it better suited for gaming, just tweak the OS and disable the junk you don't want. It's noty hard. A gaming only OS for PCs would be rather dumb, waste of time to make and overall, counter-productive

[r.linder]

Pretty much if you just want a machine that plays games, you're just looking at a console. So just get a Steam Deck if it's about your Steam library, you can get most games to work fine on it, wouldn't be much different from using a desktop because you can hook up a monitor, keyboard, etc. or use the controls, the only thing you don't get is the upgrades, but all of that is already available on other Arch distros which are made for more than just playing games, and they'll do it just as well if not better than SteamOS.

Considering how long it takes Valve to do things and the fact that they're still a relatively small company, they are NOT going to be a very reliable manager of an operating system, that's a fact. The bits and pieces they contributed like Gamescope are far more valuable and have already made it to many repos.

[TheTrippyHippie]

It's the same the same for me now that I have move from windows 11 to Bazzite but I am very happpy with the OS and that is a hit I am prepared to take.
It's not like cheaters dont find away around them sometimes and not only that they make your PC less secure from what I have read.

But i can't totally understand why others won't.

As Luck would have it all the games I play work and feel better than they did running under windows 11? i don't know why that is but I'm more than happy with it.


Well I'm done with windows I found a new home in Bazzite and I am more than happy to take the hit with games that wont work because of anti cheat software

[Bad 💀 Motha]

Yes exactly just use a console. You can buy a proper USB adapter to use KB+M if you really want to. Why try to strip the PC down to Gaming only.