RTX 40 vs 50 series

[Helicopter200]

So on traditional frame render there is no big difference between 40 and 50 series but on frame generation its a big difference and since the 40 series will get DLSS 4 with improved frame generation (Multiframe generation is only for 50 series) this means i will get more frames when using DLSS and its kinda useless to upgrade from 40 series to 50 series since on traditional frame generation is no big difference? Tell me your opinion guys

[r.linder]

Opprinnelig skrevet av D. Flame:

Opprinnelig skrevet av ¤☣wing☢zeяo☣¤™:

And that's why they are revamping input which will only get better,

Yes, I am aware that they are trying to make a band-aid to counteract the issues cause by their fake frames, but that doesn't change anything.

Yes it does, when they're able to get latency down to being the same as if it was without frame generation, then there's no argument left and you'd be stupid not to enable it at that point.

[¤☣wing☢zeяo☣¤™]

Opprinnelig skrevet av D. Flame:

Opprinnelig skrevet av ¤☣wing☢zeяo☣¤™:

And that's why they are revamping input which will only get better,

Yes, I am aware that they are trying to make a band-aid to counteract the issues cause by their fake frames, but that doesn't change anything.

Don't get the mental gymnastics to get there but if it lowers the latency to normal then it does change something, the latency.

Why is new tech or methods a band-aid, man if you know what Nvidia should do moving forward more than them you should really get a job there you will earn millions.

If you were around in the old days when street lights were invented would you have been one of the folks protesting siding with the church saying that it's the devils work?

[D. Flame]

Opprinnelig skrevet av ¤☣wing☢zeяo☣¤™:

Opprinnelig skrevet av D. Flame:

Yes, I am aware that they are trying to make a band-aid to counteract the issues cause by their fake frames, but that doesn't change anything.

Don't get the mental gymnastics to get there but if it lowers the latency to normal then it does change something, the latency.

Why is new tech or methods a band-aid, man if you know what Nvidia should do moving forward more than them you should really get a job there you will earn millions.

If you were around in the old days when street lights were invented would you have been one of the folks protesting siding with the church saying that it's the devils work?

Light is light. Fake frames are not real frames.

[¤☣wing☢zeяo☣¤™]

Opprinnelig skrevet av D. Flame:

Opprinnelig skrevet av ¤☣wing☢zeяo☣¤™:

Don't get the mental gymnastics to get there but if it lowers the latency to normal then it does change something, the latency.

Why is new tech or methods a band-aid, man if you know what Nvidia should do moving forward more than them you should really get a job there you will earn millions.

If you were around in the old days when street lights were invented would you have been one of the folks protesting siding with the church saying that it's the devils work?

Light is light. Fake frames are not real frames.

Ahh but if they had your lack of vision we would still all be playing PONG by Atari as every new method that came out people would cry noooo.

[☎need4naiim☎]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Helicopter200:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Monk:

I see you are simply too poor to ever actually tried it so won't be the target audience anyway.

Poor? Dude i have a 4080 with an i7 13700k and im poor? :lunar2019crylaughingpig:

He always talk like that. It was 3 years ago, i think. He tried to do the same to me but i gave him his due. That's his style. There is a reason why i block those uppity individuals that have "seriously pricey shiny" rigs that give them a hypothetical "bragging and denigrating rights".

[D. Flame]

Opprinnelig skrevet av ¤☣wing☢zeяo☣¤™:

Opprinnelig skrevet av D. Flame:

Light is light. Fake frames are not real frames.

Ahh but if they had your lack of vision we would still all be playing PONG by Atari as every new method that came out people would cry noooo.

And if they had yours, then the emperor would still be naked.

[Monk]

Opprinnelig skrevet av ☎need4naiim☎:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Helicopter200:

Poor? Dude i have a 4080 with an i7 13700k and im poor? :lunar2019crylaughingpig:

He always talk like that. It was 3 years ago, i think. He tried to do the same to me but i gave him his due. That's his style. There is a reason why i block those uppity individuals that have "seriously pricey shiny" rigs that give them a hypothetical "bragging and denigrating rights".

What are you on about, I think that's the first time I've made such statements, if I have it's as a joke, if anything I always point out you don't need the latest and greatest, however, given said topic requires the latest tech to experience it, I hot a little daft with jokey language.

Plus, I AM poor, I only have my fancy toys because I budget, save and sacrifice other things to get things which, honestly are out of my price range if I didn't.

I start saving for the next upgrade the day after I build a new system.

Heck if most people show some restraint and just bring their own lunch to work, cut out smoking and expensive coffee they would easily have enough spare cash to buy high end every generation.

[¤☣wing☢zeяo☣¤™]

Opprinnelig skrevet av D. Flame:

Opprinnelig skrevet av ¤☣wing☢zeяo☣¤™:

Ahh but if they had your lack of vision we would still all be playing PONG by Atari as every new method that came out people would cry noooo.

And if they had yours, then the emperor would still be naked.

Yeah rubbish analogy that I'm not sure you fully grasp.

[Worldzworstgamer]

Sorry but I am not into fake frames. **** Nvidia.

[Monk]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Worldzworstgamer:

Sorry but I am not into fake frames. **** Nvidia.

Then gooduck playing anything over the next few years.

You lot really sound like the people who cried about physics in games initially.

[Heretic]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Monk:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Heretic:

The input lag must be terrible.

It's not though, this isn't lossless scaling's rubbish program but very expensive dedicated hardware, it really isn't noticeable unless you are a very high end competitive player, but, then, any competitive fame doesn't need it....

The cards haven't been released yet, and I'm sure anyone here who has used frame generation know that it feels poor. It may smooth out motion but the input lag is noticeable. This is probably why it isn't mentioned when they're pushing their marketing gimmick.

[xDDD]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Monk:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Worldzworstgamer:

Sorry but I am not into fake frames. **** Nvidia.

Then gooduck playing anything over the next few years.

You lot really sound like the people who cried about physics in games initially.

Completely different.
Physics enhances games. It allows for interesting things that make gameplay better.

All frame generation does is enable developers to continue their pattern of sh*ttier and sh*ttier optimization. Especially if they play ball with Nvidia.
"Oh it's okay if our game only gets 30fps on the card with the highest rasterisation, they can just generate fake frames and run it at 120fps!"
This is bad for the gaming industry and should be criticized.

Ultimately I doubt it'll do any good, though. Gamers are less than 15% of Nvidia's revenue so there's no reason to really care about them making a fuss nevermind a fraction of them making a fuss.

[_I_]

stuff it

amd has their version of frame gen too
and even smart/medium dumb tvs can do it too

[r.linder]

Opprinnelig skrevet av xDDD:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Monk:

Then gooduck playing anything over the next few years.

You lot really sound like the people who cried about physics in games initially.

Completely different.
Physics enhances games. It allows for interesting things that make gameplay better.

All frame generation does is enable developers to continue their pattern of sh*ttier and sh*ttier optimization. Especially if they play ball with Nvidia.
"Oh it's okay if our game only gets 30fps on the card with the highest rasterisation, they can just generate fake frames and run it at 120fps!"
This is bad for the gaming industry and should be criticized.

Ultimately I doubt it'll do any good, though. Gamers are less than 15% of Nvidia's revenue so there's no reason to really care about them making a fuss nevermind a fraction of them making a fuss.

You do realise that AMD is doing the exact same thing, right? And that FSR4 is going to use AI acceleration just the same as DLSS so they can get better quality and performance?

This whole spiel that's always specifically about big bad NVIDIA is always ridiculous, what NVIDIA is doing is actually beneficial for gamers in the long run as machine learning is an another way to get massive increases in performance without having to completely change GPU technology, we're eventually going to run into the full limitations of silicon, and there are few materials that can sufficiently replace it, the best one of which is graphene which runs the risk of getting so hot when used in a semiconductor that it's easily capable of going molten melting through steel tables if it isn't strictly limited, as circuits using graphene are considerably quicker than silicon circuits.
These alternatives are much more expensive to produce because the materials are more expensive to produce (graphene production is a slow process because you're basically shaving layers of carbon off one layer at a time at the atomic level) and it would take a significant amount of work to properly design a GPU using graphene that wouldn't immediately destroy itself, the first tests done of semiconductors using graphene without any safeguards that we see in current CPUs and GPUs went molten in a very short period of time, melted through a steel table it was sitting on, and melted into the concrete below it.
So the first NVIDIA flagship GPUs to use graphene instead of silicon, costing as much as they do, would cost several times more to produce than it costs to produce the 5090, if not several times more than the retail price of the 5090. It's an inevitable change because eventually silicon is going to be too much of a limiter on the potential of computing, period.

Semiconductor manufacturers like AMD, NVIDIA, and Intel are well aware of this inevitability and they're trying to drag it out as much as possible because the technology to make graphene based semiconductors viable isn't all there yet, as well as keeping it cool enough as if you thought CPUs and GPUs heating up as quickly as they do now is bad, graphene circuits work significantly faster so a graphene processor can shoot up to its throttle temperature instantaneously, it's much easier to get higher performance through machine learning technologies than it is to keep trying to stretch silicon is thin as possible. And it doesn't matter how we get performance increases, what matters is that we're getting performance increases, the issue with DLSS/FSR/XeSS is support, but eventually those things are going to be supported by everything and enabled by default anyway.

Here's a neat video on Graphene from 10 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcg9_ML2mXY

[Heretic]

AMD doesn't restrict it to the very latest generation of cards, so is in fact useful for those on older cards from both AMD and Nvidia. Nvidia are not benefiting gamers. They're selling gimmicks, and if the very latest game needs DLSS4 and all the other exclusives then they'll just kill PC gaming.

Face it, Nvidia sucks even if their cards and drivers are good enough.