Why Nvidia is giving not enough VRAM? - rant.

[C1REX]

New GPUs were announced.

16GB for $1000+ just to match PS5 VRAM.
12GB for $550+ just to match the incoming Switch 2.

If the 5060 will have 8GB, it will match the PS4.

I understand and agree that many devs are doing a very bad job recently, but this tiny amount of memory for ridiculous money only makes it worse. Sure, games can be optimized for VRAM better, but it often comes at the cost of worse looking textures, stutters, or increased CPU demand for data streaming and decompression.

Nvidia tries to condition us into believing that VRAM is made of gold and ultra expensive. Same as what Apple does. Nintendo is super stingy, and they understand that VRAM gives more than computing power for less money. It would be cheaper for us to have games optimized for more memory but weaker GPUs. Nintendo gives 12GB to a GPU similar to the RTX 2050.

BTW: Something odd is happening on the forum. My previous topic was closed for being too old when it was made just before Christmas. Other topics commenting on Nvidia were also closed.

[Monk]

Probably because nvidia understands how much memory is actually needed for stuff rather than how much a fame can hog down.

I have 2 systems, a htpc with an 8GB 3050 and one with a 4090, at the same settings the 3050 can run happily at, the 4090 will show more than 8GB of usage while the 3950 might only be using 6.

People get far too hung up on vram capacity.

[wesnef]

And they'll probably also say that the new GPUs use AI/horsepower/DLSS Magic/etc, to compress the data on the fly & to transfer data to&from the ram faster, so that you don't need as much. Or something.

[Omega]

Messaggio originale di Monk:

Probably because nvidia understands how much memory is actually needed for stuff rather than how much a fame can hog down.

I have 2 systems, a htpc with an 8GB 3050 and one with a 4090, at the same settings the 3050 can run happily at, the 4090 will show more than 8GB of usage while the 3950 might only be using 6.

People get far too hung up on vram capacity.

It is best to have more spare VRAM overheard, or the card will quickly become obsolete when higher VRAM cards become the norm, even if compute-wise the card is still fine.

We've seen this since at least the GTX 900 series and every generation after, the low-mid -range Nvidia stuff becomes unable to play games, meanwhile the less powerful cards from the competition can run these games just fine.

[nullable]

Well, the PS5's 16GB is still shared, so it's not going to be dedicated entirely for the GPU. Like a PC's GPU RAM is. Same with the PS4 8GB is shared, so less than that will be used by the GPU.

I think your arguments are a bit oversimplified. Still some SKU's could probably stand to have a bit more RAM in some instances.

I think though to sometimes users are hand wringing over the amount of RAM not increasing at the same rate it used to and staying within a certain range feels like stagnation. But it's not like there's games crippled on the PC because of insufficient amount of RAM on GPU's. But maybe some games can't exceed consoles quite as much as people would like.

And frankly if RAM really mattered as much as people claim why haven't people jumped ship to AMD or Intel in droves, more RAM for less money equals more gooder better right?

[Monk]

My mate still uses my old 980's to play stuff just fine with only 4GB vram, just need to lower settings.

I agree more is always better, just saying, it's not as crippling as people tend to think, but it is a stupid and easy win they give to competitors by not just sticking 16GB on everything even if it's only benefit is marketing.

[C1REX]

Messaggio originale di nullable:

Well, the PS5's 16GB is still shared, so it's not going to be dedicated entirely for the GPU. Like a PC's GPU RAM is. Same with the PS4 8GB is shared, so less than that will be used by the GPU.

PS5 has 12,5 available for games at the moment and can be changed in the future.
Final Fantasy 16 doesn't work well below 12GB VRAM but perfectly fine with enough memory.
3070 and 3070Ti owners were screwed getting less memory than 3060 12GB and when the newest games stutter like mad due to VRAM.

[nullable]

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

Messaggio originale di nullable:

Well, the PS5's 16GB is still shared, so it's not going to be dedicated entirely for the GPU. Like a PC's GPU RAM is. Same with the PS4 8GB is shared, so less than that will be used by the GPU.

PS5 has 12,5 available for games at the moment and can be changed in the future.
Final Fantasy 16 doesn't work well below 12GB VRAM but perfectly fine with enough memory.
3070 and 3070Ti owners were screwed getting less memory than 3060 12GB and when the newest games stutter like mad due to VRAM.

Based on what I'm reading AMD cards with 16GB of VRAM compared to a 4060's 8GB hardly fare any better.

https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/final-fantasy-xvi-pc-benchmarks-poorly-optimized-and-needs-framegen-just-to-hit-60-fps-on-a-lot-of-gpus

Doesn't seem like VRAM is the whole story there, or even most of the story.

And to my point, you entirely mispresented the issue in your OP. 12.5GB isn't quite the same as 16GB.

[C1REX]

Messaggio originale di nullable:

Based on what I'm reading AMD cards with 16GB of VRAM compared to a 4060's 8GB hardly fare any better.

One problem is that Nvidia completely dominates the market so devs don't have much choice and we can't get higher quality textures or whatever else data they could put into VRAM for better performance or visuals. We need to brute force with computing power what is more expensive.

We are also getting games that do use more VRAM or perform worse with just 8GB

https://youtu.be/dx4En-2PzOU?si=usJsq16fvUxR1rLD


Here are few examples where technically slower 3060 12GB runs some games much better than faster 4060. Especially in terms of 1% drops and stutters.

https://youtu.be/VKFCYAzqa8c?si=5N3vcOSTROC_yx0M

[GOD RAYS ON ULTRA™]

Well, unless the 5070 is going to magically have a $350-$400 price tag, I'm turning my nose up.

The problem is I'd still be getting ripped off. Let's be really honest, the 5070 is really a 5060. Nvidia just wants you to believe it's the rtx 5070.

It's not, Nvidia. It's a 5060 and you damn well know it. That waste of silicon should be no more than $300-$350 or so.

This is my main problem with Nvidia. They are just way too stingy.

The 5080 being half of the 5090? What kind of pathetic product stack is that? What amazes me is the amount of schooling and education that Nvidia developers must have, only for it to wasted on stupid designs.

[gwwak]

Planned obsolescence.

[Corona Scurrae]

NVIDIA is now mostly interested in their main customers - namely dc - and their gaming oriented products could have been used to fill orders for those customers. In order to make up for that loss they segmented their gaming oriented cards perfectly.
Keep in mind that Ada was big poo - in regards to value - yet it nevertheless funded their R&D. So either pay up or hope AMD actually delivers - and hopefully udna in 26 is not going to suck - something useful.

Fingers crossed mid gen refresh 3gb gddr7 cards will cost less.

[C1REX]

Messaggio originale di nullable:

Based on what I'm reading AMD cards with 16GB of VRAM compared to a 4060's 8GB hardly fare any better.

https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/final-fantasy-xvi-pc-benchmarks-poorly-optimized-and-needs-framegen-just-to-hit-60-fps-on-a-lot-of-gpus

Testing for VRAM is tricky as it usually takes about 30min of gameplay in many games to fill up the buffer. I own the game and seen tons of topics on steam forum how the game breaks on 8GB gpus when players reach major towns. It plays really well with enough VRAM with completely flat frame time graph.

Tech powerup says the game uses over 10GB at 1080p medium.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/final-fantasy-xvi-fps-performance-benchmark/5.html

I’ve seen even over 16GB at 4K+FSR without frame gen.

Again, regular benchmarks may not expose the problem as you need to play long enough in most games and reach VRAM heavy locations to notice a problem. The most challenging are towns and fast traveling between them.

[Lord Flashheart]

Agree. The upcoming RTX 5070 with 12GB is an insult to gamers. I am hoping the fabled RTX 5060 ti 16GB is reasonably powerful and a decent price.

[Ontrix_Kitsune]

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

New GPUs were announced.

16GB for $1000+ just to match PS5 VRAM.
12GB for $550+ just to match the incoming Switch 2.

If the 5060 will have 8GB, it will match the PS4.

I understand and agree that many devs are doing a very bad job recently, but this tiny amount of memory for ridiculous money only makes it worse. Sure, games can be optimized for VRAM better, but it often comes at the cost of worse looking textures, stutters, or increased CPU demand for data streaming and decompression.

Nvidia tries to condition us into believing that VRAM is made of gold and ultra expensive. Same as what Apple does. Nintendo is super stingy, and they understand that VRAM gives more than computing power for less money. It would be cheaper for us to have games optimized for more memory but weaker GPUs. Nintendo gives 12GB to a GPU similar to the RTX 2050.

BTW: Something odd is happening on the forum. My previous topic was closed for being too old when it was made just before Christmas. Other topics commenting on Nvidia were also closed.

The RTX 5070 Ti will have 16GB of VRAM and a launch price of $749.

Also try to remember also that with the new RTX 5000 series Nvidia has a new AI technology to resample game textures on-the-fly now which will radically change how VRAM works in a video card. Games that previously needed 12GB of VRAM on a card will only need to use 8GB or 6GB with the new technology for example. The amount of VRAM needed for games will be significantly less with the new technology on the new cards.

[Komarimaru]

One thing to note, the 9070 we know from AMD also has 16GB of Vram.