Alxndr 2 月 21 日 上午 2:58
Do you think GPUs will ever be affordable again?
Things increase in price all the time, that's normal, it's called inflation. However there's regular inflation of everyday goods and services. Then there's giga-inflation, which only seems to affect GPUs and houses.

I think the problem ultimately boils down to lack of competition. There's basically 2 GPU companies in the whole world, Nvidia and AMD (sorry Intel you've got a long way to go yet).

So when you have virtually no competition at all you can create a card and sell it for $3000 and people will actually pay it for it because there's no other product available lol.

Back in the day I could build a top of the line gaming PC for about $1,500 and it would run everything at 1440p max settings and have no problem doing that for the next 10 years. (I'm looking at your 1080ti).

Now you have to upgrade your GPU every 2 years just to stay inline with the latest games. Games are releasing with graphics that are more demanding, faster than the production of the GPUs that can run it.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if in a few years games being developed will be developed with the intention of them running on a card that literally hasn't even been made yet.

For example GTA7 being developed with the intention of gamers using a 6090 with frame gen and dlss to get 60fps. (This probably won't happen from a reputable studio like Rockstar but I'm just using that as an example).
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正在显示第 91 - 105 条,共 109 条留言
Iggy Wolf 2 月 22 日 下午 5:22 
引用自 ragnarok

When I got Exodus, I was glad you were given the choice of the regular or enhanced version, as the former didn't require an rtx card, and I didn't feel it was trying to become the new Crysis.

But so far that's what Doom the Dark Ages is like: for plenty of PC gamers, Crysis marked the point where they had to upgrade their entire PC system.

The Dark Ages feels the same way, as there's still plenty of people out there that don't have an rtx card.

Doom the Dark Ages doing it wouldn't be so bad. The issue is how almost every new UE5 title acts like a "Crysis" that demands a new rig when people just wanna play games. If the occasional high demanding title broke new grounds or set new trends, that'd be fine. In a way, that's why people didn't complain as much about Alan Wake 2 (the real complaint was it being exclusive to Epic Games Launcher). But now it's like "upgrade your GPU every year" or be left behind in terms of just being able to even play a game.

It really makes me start to hate gaming in general. The consoles aren't even close to 40xx series level of performance, yet PC gamers have to pray to the GPU gods just to have a playable game?! If consoles set the baseline standard, then that means too many studios are content to churn out console port slop and how that high end GPUs "brute force" decent performance. No thank you. I'll just go back to completing my backlog or buy NON-RTX related games.
ᶻ𝗓𐰁 2 月 22 日 下午 5:24 
引用自 Monk
引用自 ᶻ𝗓𐰁
I've never been happy with the results produced by gsync or freesync and find it similar to framegen in terms of jankyness. I prefer a steady vsync 30 to a janky 45-50 gsync.

The you set stuff up wrong, vsync introduces massive latency and still has some tearing.

GSync is objectionable a far better experience, you are the first person I've ever seen who has said otherwise lol.
I've had the opposite experience. Gsync creates tearing where vsync is fully synchronized.
最后由 ᶻ𝗓𐰁 编辑于; 2 月 22 日 下午 5:27
ᶻ𝗓𐰁 2 月 22 日 下午 5:26 
引用自 ragnarok
引用自 ᶻ𝗓𐰁
I've never been happy with the results produced by gsync or freesync and find it similar to framegen in terms of jankyness. I prefer a steady vsync 30 to a janky 45-50 gsync.

30 fps is too low. I learned that all the way back when the original dead space first came out, when I turned on v-sync in the game.
It's just means having better mouse control due to horizontal scrolling. I will admit, there is a horizontal rotation limit to 30 FPS, which is directly half of 60 FPS.
ragnarok 2 月 22 日 下午 5:27 
引用自 Iggy Wolf
引用自 ragnarok

When I got Exodus, I was glad you were given the choice of the regular or enhanced version, as the former didn't require an rtx card, and I didn't feel it was trying to become the new Crysis.

But so far that's what Doom the Dark Ages is like: for plenty of PC gamers, Crysis marked the point where they had to upgrade their entire PC system.

The Dark Ages feels the same way, as there's still plenty of people out there that don't have an rtx card.

Doom the Dark Ages doing it wouldn't be so bad. The issue is how almost every new UE5 title acts like a "Crysis" that demands a new rig when people just wanna play games. If the occasional high demanding title broke new grounds or set new trends, that'd be fine. In a way, that's why people didn't complain as much about Alan Wake 2 (the real complaint was it being exclusive to Epic Games Launcher). But now it's like "upgrade your GPU every year" or be left behind in terms of just being able to even play a game.

It really makes me start to hate gaming in general. The consoles aren't even close to 40xx series level of performance, yet PC gamers have to pray to the GPU gods just to have a playable game?! If consoles set the baseline standard, then that means too many studios are content to churn out console port slop and how that high end GPUs "brute force" decent performance. No thank you. I'll just go back to completing my backlog or buy NON-RTX related games.

I've had this feeling of hating the PC gaming for quite a few years myself due to the GPU. It's the most expensive component to buy, yet is always the first one to go obsolete.

It's exactly this reason why for years, I've set the standard where if I can set everything to high (save maybe shadows and shadow textures due to ray-tracing) and the game can still run at 55-60 fps, that's fine with me.

This is why ever since I got the 1080 SC back in 2017, I didn't upgrade the GPU, as none of the games really pushed it to its limit until the Dead Space remake.

But with Doom the Dark Ages, it's another story. The NVME hard drive is one thing I'm still debating on (since Stalker 2 said you must have an SSD to play the game, yet I've seen people play it just fine with an HDD), but there's no way around the GPU card.
Iggy Wolf 2 月 22 日 下午 5:28 
引用自 ᶻ𝗓𐰁
引用自 Monk

The you set stuff up wrong, vsync introduces massive latency and still has some tearing.

GSync is objectionable a far better experience, you are the first person I've ever seen who has said otherwise lol.
I've had the opposite experience. Gsync creates tearing where vsync is fulling synchronized.

That's why you do both. G-Sync never claimed to fully eliminate tearing. It was more meant to remove the latency penalty that you'd get from turning on Vsync. G-Sync WITH V-Sync however, removes tearing AND smooths it out by reducing latency. Low Latency mode usually helps to further reduce any latency that you get when you activate both G-Sync and vsync.
ragnarok 2 月 22 日 下午 5:28 
引用自 ᶻ𝗓𐰁
引用自 ragnarok

30 fps is too low. I learned that all the way back when the original dead space first came out, when I turned on v-sync in the game.
It's just means having better mouse control due to horizontal scrolling. I will admit, there is a horizontal rotation limit to 30 FPS, which is directly half of 60 FPS.

I see. Maybe if I ever return to the original Dead Space, I'll check it out.
Iggy Wolf 2 月 22 日 下午 5:35 
引用自 ragnarok

I've had this feeling of hating the PC gaming for quite a few years myself due to the GPU. It's the most expensive component to buy, yet is always the first one to go obsolete.

It's exactly this reason why for years, I've set the standard where if I can set everything to high (save maybe shadows and shadow textures due to ray-tracing) and the game can still run at 55-60 fps, that's fine with me.

This is why ever since I got the 1080 SC back in 2017, I didn't upgrade the GPU, as none of the games really pushed it to its limit until the Dead Space remake.

But with Doom the Dark Ages, it's another story. The NVME hard drive is one thing I'm still debating on (since Stalker 2 said you must have an SSD to play the game, yet I've seen people play it just fine with an HDD), but there's no way around the GPU card.

I find even a SATA SDD would suffice. I mean, I have my OS on an NVME M.2 SSD, but most of my new and old games installed on my 2 TB Crucial MX500 SATA SSD. It's fast enough that games load into saves within less than a minute most of the time. Even RDR2 now loads up within 30 seconds.
ragnarok 2 月 22 日 下午 5:38 
引用自 Iggy Wolf
引用自 ragnarok

I've had this feeling of hating the PC gaming for quite a few years myself due to the GPU. It's the most expensive component to buy, yet is always the first one to go obsolete.

It's exactly this reason why for years, I've set the standard where if I can set everything to high (save maybe shadows and shadow textures due to ray-tracing) and the game can still run at 55-60 fps, that's fine with me.

This is why ever since I got the 1080 SC back in 2017, I didn't upgrade the GPU, as none of the games really pushed it to its limit until the Dead Space remake.

But with Doom the Dark Ages, it's another story. The NVME hard drive is one thing I'm still debating on (since Stalker 2 said you must have an SSD to play the game, yet I've seen people play it just fine with an HDD), but there's no way around the GPU card.

I find even a SATA SDD would suffice. I mean, I have my OS on an NVME M.2 SSD, but most of my new and old games installed on my 2 TB Crucial MX500 SATA SSD. It's fast enough that games load into saves within less than a minute most of the time. Even RDR2 now loads up within 30 seconds.

This is why I believe you can get around the SSD issue even if you don't have an NVME. But I find it unlikely that Bethesda would suddenly announce that they'll give you a choice between turning ray-tracing on or off with the Dark Ages. After all, they didn't do that with the recent Indiana Jones game....

At the same time though, there's just not that many games out there where you MUST have the rtx card, though I'm curious if the Dark Ages is going to mark the turning point where all the other devs in the gaming industry will all start saying their games will all have FORCED ray-tracing.
最后由 ragnarok 编辑于; 2 月 22 日 下午 5:39
Iggy Wolf 2 月 22 日 下午 5:52 
引用自 ragnarok

This is why I believe you can get around the SSD issue even if you don't have an NVME. But I find it unlikely that Bethesda would suddenly announce that they'll give you a choice between turning ray-tracing on or off with the Dark Ages. After all, they didn't do that with the recent Indiana Jones game....

At the same time though, there's just not that many games out there where you MUST have the rtx card, though I'm curious if the Dark Ages is going to mark the turning point where all the other devs in the gaming industry will all start saying their games will all have FORCED ray-tracing.

I mean, I'd say try getting a 30xx series card, but those now sell for almost as much as the 40xx series. But, they might still be in stock compared to a 40xx or 50xx card. Personally, last time I was in a Walmart, I saw a 4060 or 4060 Ti I think locked up for $400 or $450-$500 I think. If you needed JUST a 1080P card with RTX, that might be your only choice, even if the 8 GB VRAM on the regular 4060 would be a bottleneck. The 128 bit bus probably wouldn't help. But you won't even find a 4070 for a reasonable price, much less in stock.
ragnarok 2 月 22 日 下午 5:55 
引用自 Iggy Wolf
引用自 ragnarok

This is why I believe you can get around the SSD issue even if you don't have an NVME. But I find it unlikely that Bethesda would suddenly announce that they'll give you a choice between turning ray-tracing on or off with the Dark Ages. After all, they didn't do that with the recent Indiana Jones game....

At the same time though, there's just not that many games out there where you MUST have the rtx card, though I'm curious if the Dark Ages is going to mark the turning point where all the other devs in the gaming industry will all start saying their games will all have FORCED ray-tracing.

I mean, I'd say try getting a 30xx series card, but those now sell for almost as much as the 40xx series. But, they might still be in stock compared to a 40xx or 50xx card. Personally, last time I was in a Walmart, I saw a 4060 or 4060 Ti I think locked up for $400 or $450-$500 I think. If you needed JUST a 1080P card with RTX, that might be your only choice, even if the 8 GB VRAM on the regular 4060 would be a bottleneck. The 128 bit bus probably wouldn't help. But you won't even find a 4070 for a reasonable price, much less in stock.

Yeah I know. But the 4060 (well, the non-Ti version) you can still get at a reasonable price. But the whole point of ray-tracing is about lights and reflections.

So the way I see it, if you turn everything to max, but then turn the lights and reflections back down to medium, shouldn't that make the Dark Ages run just fine even with a 4060 8GB?
最后由 ragnarok 编辑于; 2 月 22 日 下午 5:56
Monk 2 月 22 日 下午 6:00 
NVME ssd's only gave crazy fast sequential times, the random times, which are used nearly exclusively when gaming aren't anywhere near those headline numbers, but closer to 500MB/s which is pretty much what a good sata ssd willget you.
ᶻ𝗓𐰁 2 月 22 日 下午 6:05 
引用自 Iggy Wolf
引用自 ᶻ𝗓𐰁
I've had the opposite experience. Gsync creates tearing where vsync is fulling synchronized.

That's why you do both. G-Sync never claimed to fully eliminate tearing. It was more meant to remove the latency penalty that you'd get from turning on Vsync. G-Sync WITH V-Sync however, removes tearing AND smooths it out by reducing latency. Low Latency mode usually helps to further reduce any latency that you get when you activate both G-Sync and vsync.
I think it also helps if you have a monitor that multiplies by the desired fps. Like 30/60/120/240. 165 isn't directly divisible so I always avoided that.
Iggy Wolf 2 月 22 日 下午 6:16 
引用自 ᶻ𝗓𐰁
I think it also helps if you have a monitor that multiplies by the desired fps. Like 30/60/120/240. 165 isn't directly divisible so I always avoided that.

I just do it like this (60, 82, 90, 120, or 163). With G-Sync, I haven't seen it become more choppy or stuttery because it doesn't divide evenly. Let's remember that the actual FPS is usually 2-3 frames higher, which is why ULL caps you at 2-3 frames below your refresh rate.
ᶻ𝗓𐰁 2 月 22 日 下午 6:21 
V-sync just locks you to your monitor refresh, which can be adjusted through your desktop. It caps it, there's no 2-3 extra frames. Frames capped, gpu usage limited.
Iggy Wolf 2 月 22 日 下午 6:21 
引用自 ragnarok

Yeah I know. But the 4060 (well, the non-Ti version) you can still get at a reasonable price. But the whole point of ray-tracing is about lights and reflections.

So the way I see it, if you turn everything to max, but then turn the lights and reflections back down to medium, shouldn't that make the Dark Ages run just fine even with a 4060 8GB?

Depends how much VRAM it uses. Games like Last of Us Part 1 were crashing people's PCs because it would use up to 10-12 GB VRAM even at 1080P. Simply said, these new games use 4K textures even if you don't game at 4K. So the file size adds up, as does the VRAM requirement to fit them.

There's no "lower resolution" textures unless you count actually lowering the regular resolution to 720P or 480P, and I doubt ANYONE would tolerate playing at those resolutions. That doesn't include the downscaling the DLSS already does when it tries to upscale from a lower resolution to 1080P or 4K. That's why so many of these games look blurry if you aren't gaming at 1440P or 4K.
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发帖日期: 2 月 21 日 上午 2:58
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