AMD Kaveri - A10 7850K APU - performance

[CargoRunner]

I replaced my 4 year old dual core system with a shiny new Kaveri APU system. I wanted a small steam playing system for the living room. I can't remember what the old GPU was, but I did try and compare stats before buying and thought the APU was a more powerful GPU and more powerful CPU.

I have installed and re-installed different catalyst drivers and everything seems to run pretty badly what ever I do. I have 16GB of memory over clocked. So I don't think memory is an issue (except for the fact that windows only gives me 6.92GB from the 16GB installed, the rest is hardware reserved, I assume for the GPU?).

My windows experience graphics score is just 4.5 which is lower than my old system! Skyrim at 720p high setting used to run at 50fps now runs at 25. At higher resolutions the difference is more 40+ old system vs just 15 fps on the Kaveri.

Hitman absolution benchmarking at medium 720p is just 16fps on the Kaveri. The new tomb raider is better at 20-25 fps at 720p and "Normal" (which is one of the lowest settings possible).

Maybe I fell for the hype, but I thought the APU was powerful enough to run modern games. It seems way, way worse than my old system!

Does anybody else have a Kaveri APU only system? Is it really this bad for games? Or is my setup just totally broken somehow?

I really don't know what to do. The other disappointment is that the APU does not crossfire with the better AMD graphics cards. Do I wait for a future AMD graphics card that does crossfire with Kaveri??? Do I try and sell this hunk of junk and start again? Do I just change case and install a new graphics card and ignore the APU graphics?

Any advice greatly appreciated!

[_I_]

how does the amd apus gpu do cpu work?
it does not add 8 more cpu cores

[Rove]

Ya it actually kind of does. Each of the 8 GPU compute cores can run at least process at a time on it actively. The application however (or the operating system) has to be programmed to take advantage of this otherwise the GPU compute cores languish unused, forgotten and wasted.

HSA
http://www.amd.com/en-gb/innovations/software-technologies/hsa

Compute Cores
http://www.amd.com/en-gb/innovations/software-technologies/compute-cores

[poco loco]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Rove:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Spraky poko:

Hey mate, I`m a little lost after reading many threads about HSA.

So, in a nutshell HSA supported applications will utilize both CPU-GPU compute cores and it will make 12 compute cores?

CPU=calculations etc and iGPU=video processing etc, and they will work together so where is the place of the dGPU here?

Will it be CPU+iGPU+(dGPU) or CPU+(iGPU+dGPU).

BTW, i think i only complicate things here, it is better to leave that to the experts. lol

Using A10-7850K alone you have 12 compute cores, 4CPU+8GPU. They can assist each other in work even just like this but if you are playing a game for example then the CPU will generally be doing traditional CPU work while the GPU does traditional GPU work, though there is room for overlap.

TL;DR single lone A10-7850K APU = CPU + iGPU on same chip assisting in same tasks.

Using a A10-7850K + R7 250 (or lower) dGPU in crossfire you have 12 compute cores (4CPU+8GPU)+R7 250 dGPU that will assist the 8 GPU compute cores for graphics tasks but *probably* not assist the 4 CPU compute cores for anything that is not specifically programmed to use a dGPU normally by itself.

TL;DR A10-7850K APU + R7 250 (or other compatible) crossfired dGPU = [CPU + (iGPU] + dGPU), at least I think.

Using A10-7850K + dGPU as primary graphics (hopefully a higher end card like a R9 270 or GTX 760 or above) you get 12 compute cores (4CPU+8GPU) that can do CPU tasks, including CPU tasks which the 8 iGPU compute cores can assist in like OpenCL or HSA compatible things for example. You of course also get your dGPU which does the graphics work and things capable of benefiting from GPGPU computing. It's not clear to me how and when the dGPU and iGPU will divide up GPGPU computing tasks but this is probably left up to the software coders.

TL;DR A10-7850K APU + (hopefully high-end) primary dGPU = (CPU+iGPU)+dGPU

This is just my understanding of it.

Ok then, so right now for Applications that are not supported by HSA it will be:

* APU ; CPU + dGPU (not R7)

For the "future" applications that will be supported by HSA it will be:

* APU ; CPU+iGPU+dGPU which CPU+iGPU will work together and dGPU will do it`s own task. (not R7)

If this will happen we will have a monster APU.

I`m not a fan of R7 and I`m sorry to be rude but i don`t like it.

[Rove]

Yes what you said sounds about right.

I personally use a card more powerful than the R7 iGPU also. I'm mostly excited about the APU's potential as a higher power CPU to use with a dGPU for myself.

Traditional CPU/APU+dGPU takes up more space, as such it's reasonable to expect more performance, which is what I want.

A10-7850K has 2.41 billion transistors
i7-4960X has 1.86 billion transistors

Seems like people buying a APU are getting a huge bargain in terms of content printed to APU/CPU chip. Of course for it to actually pay off programs need to be able to take advantage of the 8 CPU compute cores some way or another. If they are enthusiasts and can program there own stuff then the APU seems the way better deal even right now.

[Pomelo]

Thing is though, despite those cores with HSA kinda being like 12 CPU cores, they are still pretty weak cores.

Many cores doesn't equal good performance if the cores are weak.

And who knows what the field will look like when HSA is actually widely used. And more importantly, used where high performance counts.

PS: 4960X having less transistors than a 7850K is relevant how? The i7 still wipes the floor with the A10. Pretty sure it actually might wipe the floor with a whole bunch of A10s at the same time.

[_I_]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Rove:

Ya it actually kind of does. Each of the 8 GPU compute cores can run at least process at a time on it actively. The application however (or the operating system) has to be programmed to take advantage of this otherwise the GPU compute cores languish unused, forgotten and wasted.

HSA
http://www.amd.com/en-gb/innovations/software-technologies/hsa

Compute Cores
http://www.amd.com/en-gb/innovations/software-technologies/compute-cores

that sounds like only specific programs that can make use of the apus gpu can use its apu cores for the program
not all programs

[Rove]

Right I said that already. They need to support HSA or OpenCL in the programs.

[terminator]

the problem is with your os change your os to linux choose some good linux distru i recommend ubuntu amds work perfectly with open source os u wont even need to overclock

[poco loco]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Powl:

Thing is though, despite those cores with HSA kinda being like 12 CPU cores, they are still pretty weak cores.

Many cores doesn't equal good performance if the cores are weak.

And who knows what the field will look like when HSA is actually widely used. And more importantly, used where high performance counts.

PS: 4960X having less transistors than a 7850K is relevant how? The i7 still wipes the floor with the A10. Pretty sure it actually might wipe the floor with a whole bunch of A10s at the same time.

This is a vague statement mate. (very vague)

I will be very happy if APU can support more high performance graphics like 7970. :)
If AMD can update 7850k or will issue new APU that can do Dual Graphics on 7970 or higher it will be paradise for all of us. What more can you ask? Don`t you want to live in a paradise? lol

[Pomelo]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Spraky poko:

This is a vague statement mate. (very vague)

I will be very happy if APU can support more high performance graphics like 7970. :)
If AMD can update 7850k or will issue new APU that can do Dual Graphics on 7970 or higher it will be paradise for all of us. What more can you ask? Don`t you want to live in a paradise? lol

Just that, by the time APUs' GPU performance reaches the levels of a 7970, dedicated graphics will have advanced a lot too. Current iGPUs can hardly keep up with low end/entry level graphics cards. They will likely reach 7970 levels by the time a 7970 is considered low end and weak.

[poco loco]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Powl:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Spraky poko:

This is a vague statement mate. (very vague)

I will be very happy if APU can support more high performance graphics like 7970. :)
If AMD can update 7850k or will issue new APU that can do Dual Graphics on 7970 or higher it will be paradise for all of us. What more can you ask? Don`t you want to live in a paradise? lol

Just that, by the time APUs' GPU performance reaches the levels of a 7970, dedicated graphics will have advanced a lot too. Current iGPUs can hardly keep up with low end/entry level graphics cards. They will likely reach 7970 levels by the time a 7970 is considered low end and weak.

-End of the thread-

Let`s go to the moon and plant trees.

[CargoRunner]

For anybody else with a similar problem. My original motherboard was an ASRock FM2A88-ITX+. After my initial performance concerns the system became worse over a short period of time. The graphics and gaming graphics windows score went down to 1.0 and the system started giving blue screens of death about once a day. I sent the motherboard back for repair, after a couple of months it was still not fixed by ASRock so I was given a refund. I have now bought a Gigabyte F2A88XN-Wifi motherboard. The system performs much better and is stable. I now have 14.9GB of available RAM and my windows graphics and gaming graphics scores are now 7.4. I have not measured the frame rates on the new motherboard but the frame rates do seem a touch higher on the Kavari APU compared to my old 4 year old system. The Kaveri does give me a living room steam console which is nice. But it feels like a PS3 or 360 type "nearly" 1080p performance rather than the new PS4 or XBOX One APU.

To get 1080p (or above) and a really nice frame rate with detailed textures and effects I have had to buy an Intel I7 and mid priced graphics card and build a much bigger cased PC. Even old games look fresh and great cranked up to the max or with HD mods installed. I would certainly recommend the separate CPU & GPU option if you want to game at 1080p on a big TV.

[Pomelo]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย CargoRunner:

To get 1080p (or above) and a really nice frame rate with detailed textures and effects I have had to buy an Intel I7 and mid priced graphics card and build a much bigger cased PC. Even old games look fresh and great cranked up to the max or with HD mods installed. I would certainly recommend the separate CPU & GPU option if you want to game at 1080p on a big TV.

Eh, I'd just want to say going for an i5 and instead a higher priced GPU would have gotten you better perf in all but a very small selection of CPU bound games.

[Rove]

All you should of had to add was a good powerful graphics card like a R9 280 or GTX 970 or higher GPU. The A10-7850K was already a very nice little CPU for gaming, there was really no need to upgrade to a i7. What a waste. Also the new GPU might have needed a new PSU or case to power or fit it but that's all.

[WuShu101]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย senseidongen:

@everyone, please stop telling the OP he has simply been suckered in - yes, we all know that a dedicated GPU is much more powerful, but the OP said that he's getting a WEI score of 4.5. I have an A10-6800K and that gets a score of 6.9 for graphics - the bottom line is that SOMETHING IS CLEARLY WRONG!

Opinions aside, the OP has an issue and his APU should perform WAY better than it actually is. I play all my games at 1080p (apart from Shogun 2) and yeah I get fps drops sometimes but it has no trouble maintaining a 25-30 fps average in Far Cry 3 - Skyrim at 720p should be at least 40 fps with an A10-7850K

You say your RAM is OCed - what have you OCed it too? Have you tried going back to stock settings and seeing if that helps? Have you checked temps? I replaced the stock cooler cause it wasn't up to the task in the case I chose

EDIT: also, the GPU asking for 9 GB of RAM is just nuts - the default setting for my A10 is only 768 MB dedicated and 3 GB total (dedicated + shared). I'm very much of the opinion that something is awry with your RAM...

Whew, i Just thought there were only idiot fanboys in here for a second, found the
"smart" guy in the conversation.

Ok, first off the guy says he has only 6.92gb of ram? that sounds like he bought an 8gig kit and has dedicated 1gig to his "onboard" so first of all you have to question his tech level, cause that doesnt' sound like a/an 16gig kit to me. There are some very large discrepancies there in his analyzation. There's also the question of RAM speed if you spent abuncha money on 1333mhz amd ram, Im sorry, the apu's run 1866mhz ram, so your gonna experience a hit there too. dude I run Witcher 3 on my apu at 1366x768 on medium and im fine so. 8 gigs is plenty what os are you running Andromeda 16? Ok, yea there's no such thing your right...you either have been bamboozled by ebay for a 16 gig kit or you didn't read what you were buying, cause what you are explaining sounds like you only have an 8 gig kit or you need to RE-INSert your ram, and make sure both top and bottom click when you put your ramsticks in..ok? and usually you skip the second slot and put second stick in third slot....ok? get back to me with your findings, Please?

Oh yea and what was your "OLd" system a pentium 3 with a 9800agp and 128mb of ram? you never even tell us what you had? was it a dell with onboard intel g945 chipset? you could play Bejeweled but on Low settings?...Im being sarcastic...give us some info not blabber...thanks...

Oh yea and thank you smart guy, (I wouldn't have even bothered helping this guy without you)...:)
Dave Janowiec